Looking to buy an XJR, need a bit of advice
Discussion
Hello everyone.
I'm thinking of buying a used XJR (having somewhat reluctantly given up - for now - on a BMW M5, due to finances), and I'm hoping you guys can help with a bit of advice and guidance.
I have done a lot of research, and think I'm aware of most of the things that one should be paying attention to when choosing one. I read broadbean's excellent buying guide on this forum, and I've been thinking about this nikasil issue. What I'm thinking is that if pre 2000 cars (those with nikasil) are still going today, and being advertised for sale as being in excellent running condition, wouldn't it be fairly safe to assume that if the engine didn't conk out by now, 7 years after the low-sulphur fuel became compulsory, they'd be highly unlikely to fail now (due to nikasil issue)? Is my logic flawed in some way?
The reason I'm thinking about this is obviously because the pre 2000 cars are quite cheap now, and I'm trying to decide whether it's worth paying the extra for 2000 and later models, especially as I'm seeing many cars at similar or almost identical mileages, one from, say 1998, and one from 2000. Both done about 65000-ish miles.
Nikasil (and other issues) aside, how much difference can there be in reliability, etc. between two such cars, both properly maintained and with the same mileage, but one being 2-3 years older than the other? Basically, what I'm trying to figure out is what takes precedence, mileage or age? I have the feeling mileage might the more important factor, but I could be wrong, as I really have next to nothing experience in buying used cars.
Also, I read that the standard audio system in the XJRs isn't that great, and that the so called "premium sound" system is a big improvement. I do like good quality sound system in my car, so will the standard system really be disappointing?
Another (small) thing, are auto-headlights, rain-sensing wipers, heated front screen and electric nearly everything standard on all these cars?
I'm very excited thinking about owning this car, I can't wait to experience its performance everyone raves on about, and it's looks and style are also growing on me - wasn't a massive fan before, I must confess.
I don't want to rush into this before I'm as confident as I can reasonably be that I'm making a sound purchase, hence this post. My budget is also limited, we're talking about £10000 absolute maximum, but I'd prefer to spend in the region of £7000-8000 ideally.
Thanks in advance guys,
Vlad.
I'm thinking of buying a used XJR (having somewhat reluctantly given up - for now - on a BMW M5, due to finances), and I'm hoping you guys can help with a bit of advice and guidance.
I have done a lot of research, and think I'm aware of most of the things that one should be paying attention to when choosing one. I read broadbean's excellent buying guide on this forum, and I've been thinking about this nikasil issue. What I'm thinking is that if pre 2000 cars (those with nikasil) are still going today, and being advertised for sale as being in excellent running condition, wouldn't it be fairly safe to assume that if the engine didn't conk out by now, 7 years after the low-sulphur fuel became compulsory, they'd be highly unlikely to fail now (due to nikasil issue)? Is my logic flawed in some way?
The reason I'm thinking about this is obviously because the pre 2000 cars are quite cheap now, and I'm trying to decide whether it's worth paying the extra for 2000 and later models, especially as I'm seeing many cars at similar or almost identical mileages, one from, say 1998, and one from 2000. Both done about 65000-ish miles.
Nikasil (and other issues) aside, how much difference can there be in reliability, etc. between two such cars, both properly maintained and with the same mileage, but one being 2-3 years older than the other? Basically, what I'm trying to figure out is what takes precedence, mileage or age? I have the feeling mileage might the more important factor, but I could be wrong, as I really have next to nothing experience in buying used cars.
Also, I read that the standard audio system in the XJRs isn't that great, and that the so called "premium sound" system is a big improvement. I do like good quality sound system in my car, so will the standard system really be disappointing?
Another (small) thing, are auto-headlights, rain-sensing wipers, heated front screen and electric nearly everything standard on all these cars?
I'm very excited thinking about owning this car, I can't wait to experience its performance everyone raves on about, and it's looks and style are also growing on me - wasn't a massive fan before, I must confess.
I don't want to rush into this before I'm as confident as I can reasonably be that I'm making a sound purchase, hence this post. My budget is also limited, we're talking about £10000 absolute maximum, but I'd prefer to spend in the region of £7000-8000 ideally.
Thanks in advance guys,
Vlad.
Edited by vladman on Monday 19th March 14:46
Hi Vlad,
I think you are right regarding the nikasil issue, and remember that not every car was affected, there was something to do with short journeys and not warming engine enough and yeah if they are running fine i woudn't think they will fail suddenly now.As long as you are aware of the other couple of big issues (timing chain tensioners and water pumps) and check history properly to confirm any necessary work has been done i don't think reliability should be any more of an issue.
There seem to be some fantastic cars at great prices at the moment, so good luck with the search
I think you are right regarding the nikasil issue, and remember that not every car was affected, there was something to do with short journeys and not warming engine enough and yeah if they are running fine i woudn't think they will fail suddenly now.As long as you are aware of the other couple of big issues (timing chain tensioners and water pumps) and check history properly to confirm any necessary work has been done i don't think reliability should be any more of an issue.
There seem to be some fantastic cars at great prices at the moment, so good luck with the search
I would suggest if you are serious about a nikasil car then you should get a blow by test done at a dealer or Jag specialist. If OK, you should have nothing to worry about on the nikasil issue, infact many argue that a healthy nikasil car will last longer than a similar engine of same age with steel lining.
Good Luck!
Good Luck!
Edited by jamesc68 on Tuesday 20th March 10:42
Vladman,
I agree with your nikasil thoughts. I too recommend a blow-by test for peace of mind but you will probably be OK now.
You should aim for a car with an engine number later than 98102106XX. Some 1999 cars will fulfil this requirement, and as per the buying guide this will mean 2nd generation tensioners. You may also consider a '98 car and spend the saved money on the further improved 3rd generation ones. I have 2nd generation tensioners but I am considering an upgrade because I want to keep the car for the term of its natural life.
As the X308 matured, Jaguar added more kit as standard. In your position I would buy an older car with fewer toys if the condition and service history was better than the later car. If the nikasil linings are in good order (blow-by test) and the oil has been changed frequently (ideally at half service intervals), you could have a real smasher on your hands.
To answer your question directly....
"Basically, what I'm trying to figure out is what takes precedence, mileage or age?"
....my answer is neither (subject to the nikasil and tensioners advice). Condition and service history are where you should be looking.
Sound quality is important to you so you should go for the premium sound system. No ifs, buts, or maybes. You will be disappointed with the standard system.
I enjoyed your comment about pre-ownership excitement. I think most folks are excited by the performance of an XJR when they come from a more modest stepping stone than an M5.
After owning an M5 you won't be stunned by the performance improvement, but......and this is the substantial "but" that sets the X308 XJR apart from everything else.........ambling home after a coupe of fine ales on summer evening, as the shadows lengthen and the world slows, you will dawdle, pause, and smile knowingly as you approach your XJR. You will know you made the right choice and you will find yourself wondering what can ever replace it.
It’s the combination of performance, style, class, and "well hello" beauty that make the XJR. It is a fabulous machine, truly a motoring great, and at 7-10k I simply cannot fathom why anyone on this side of supercardom spends their pocket money elsewhere.
I agree with your nikasil thoughts. I too recommend a blow-by test for peace of mind but you will probably be OK now.
You should aim for a car with an engine number later than 98102106XX. Some 1999 cars will fulfil this requirement, and as per the buying guide this will mean 2nd generation tensioners. You may also consider a '98 car and spend the saved money on the further improved 3rd generation ones. I have 2nd generation tensioners but I am considering an upgrade because I want to keep the car for the term of its natural life.
As the X308 matured, Jaguar added more kit as standard. In your position I would buy an older car with fewer toys if the condition and service history was better than the later car. If the nikasil linings are in good order (blow-by test) and the oil has been changed frequently (ideally at half service intervals), you could have a real smasher on your hands.
To answer your question directly....
"Basically, what I'm trying to figure out is what takes precedence, mileage or age?"
....my answer is neither (subject to the nikasil and tensioners advice). Condition and service history are where you should be looking.
Sound quality is important to you so you should go for the premium sound system. No ifs, buts, or maybes. You will be disappointed with the standard system.
I enjoyed your comment about pre-ownership excitement. I think most folks are excited by the performance of an XJR when they come from a more modest stepping stone than an M5.
After owning an M5 you won't be stunned by the performance improvement, but......and this is the substantial "but" that sets the X308 XJR apart from everything else.........ambling home after a coupe of fine ales on summer evening, as the shadows lengthen and the world slows, you will dawdle, pause, and smile knowingly as you approach your XJR. You will know you made the right choice and you will find yourself wondering what can ever replace it.
It’s the combination of performance, style, class, and "well hello" beauty that make the XJR. It is a fabulous machine, truly a motoring great, and at 7-10k I simply cannot fathom why anyone on this side of supercardom spends their pocket money elsewhere.
What an inspired reply! Thanks broadbean!
Slightly confused about your comments about an M5, you said "after owning an M5...", I don't know if you misunderstood me, or if I'm misunderstanding you (more likely), but I don't own an M5... I was just thinking of buying one, that was my first choice, but I had to give it up because it would be too much of a financial strain. The XJR is very close in performance to the M5 (in my humble opinion), yet individual too, and crucially, easier for me to afford.
I think you also just made it harder for me to buy an XJR.... With your comments about the premium vs standard sound system. In that I think you're probably right, and I should stop considering cars without the premium system. My current car has what I think was top of the range sound system available for factory fitting in Peugeots back in 1997, and it still sounds fantastic. So good in fact that I don't have the heart to tell my friend who has a 2006 Golf GTI (with top of the range audio system which he paid extra for) that it sounds much better than his - and he raves about it.
I don't know if it's a bit silly to be giving this much importance to a sound system in a car but the problem is that anything worse than what I have now would not make me happy, and I'd always be regretting that I didn't look a little longer, until the right car became available.
Regarding your comments about tensioners. This is an expensive job, if I remember correctly from your buying guide post? Have you already made enquiries, and do you know how much it might cost you to replace your 2nd generation ones for the 3rd generation?
Many thanks for your reply, keep enjoying your XJR, and I hope I'll join the club soon too! My pre-ownership excitement is only growing, making it harder and harder to be patient, and keep looking for the car that ticks ALL the right boxes... Just yesterday, saw what I think is a beautiful 1998 example, low mileage, FJSH, etc, but no premium sound...
Slightly confused about your comments about an M5, you said "after owning an M5...", I don't know if you misunderstood me, or if I'm misunderstanding you (more likely), but I don't own an M5... I was just thinking of buying one, that was my first choice, but I had to give it up because it would be too much of a financial strain. The XJR is very close in performance to the M5 (in my humble opinion), yet individual too, and crucially, easier for me to afford.
I think you also just made it harder for me to buy an XJR.... With your comments about the premium vs standard sound system. In that I think you're probably right, and I should stop considering cars without the premium system. My current car has what I think was top of the range sound system available for factory fitting in Peugeots back in 1997, and it still sounds fantastic. So good in fact that I don't have the heart to tell my friend who has a 2006 Golf GTI (with top of the range audio system which he paid extra for) that it sounds much better than his - and he raves about it.
I don't know if it's a bit silly to be giving this much importance to a sound system in a car but the problem is that anything worse than what I have now would not make me happy, and I'd always be regretting that I didn't look a little longer, until the right car became available.
Regarding your comments about tensioners. This is an expensive job, if I remember correctly from your buying guide post? Have you already made enquiries, and do you know how much it might cost you to replace your 2nd generation ones for the 3rd generation?
Many thanks for your reply, keep enjoying your XJR, and I hope I'll join the club soon too! My pre-ownership excitement is only growing, making it harder and harder to be patient, and keep looking for the car that ticks ALL the right boxes... Just yesterday, saw what I think is a beautiful 1998 example, low mileage, FJSH, etc, but no premium sound...
Edited by vladman on Friday 23 March 18:53
Vladman said
"Regarding your comments about tensioners. This is an expensive job, if I remember correctly from your buying guide post? Have you already made enquiries, and do you know how much it might cost you to replace your 2nd generation ones for the 3rd generation? "
I've had an XJR for 5 weeks now, loving every minute of it, still a bit scared until I've owned for a bit longer to make sure it's all ok.
Regarding tensioners, mine's got 2nd generation and I want to upgrade, main dealers are approx £1500 all in, Indy's around £1000.
Cheers
Big Rumbly
"Regarding your comments about tensioners. This is an expensive job, if I remember correctly from your buying guide post? Have you already made enquiries, and do you know how much it might cost you to replace your 2nd generation ones for the 3rd generation? "
I've had an XJR for 5 weeks now, loving every minute of it, still a bit scared until I've owned for a bit longer to make sure it's all ok.
Regarding tensioners, mine's got 2nd generation and I want to upgrade, main dealers are approx £1500 all in, Indy's around £1000.
Cheers
Big Rumbly
broadbean747 said:
You should aim for a car with an engine number later than 98102106XX. Some 1999 cars will fulfil this requirement, and as per the buying guide this will mean 2nd generation tensioners. You may also consider a '98 car and spend the saved money on the further improved 3rd generation ones. I have 2nd generation tensioners but I am considering an upgrade because I want to keep the car for the term of its natural life.
Speaking as someone who has first-hand experience of the tensioner issue, you should be VERY weary of the 2nd generation items. Although they do last longer than the 1st generation, they will still fail at some point. The critical part is that because of the additional spring there is rarely a 'death rattle' warning.
I would suggest the cost of upgrading to 3rd gen (which I understand are so far fault free) is money very well spent.
bigdavy, i was JUST thinking the same... 
but how difficult would this be to do? are you talking about aftermarket stuff? i don't think that would be very easy to do at all, and i'd prefer to keep original jaguar stuff.
so, how difficult would it be to upgrade the standard system to the Jaguar premium system at a later stage? would it even be possible?
also, i'm having trouble imagining this standard system can sound worse than the system in my peugeot... after all, the peugeot cost £27k when new, and the Jag twice that!? but the peugeot's system IS miles better than the 2006 VW Golf GTI's top of the range stuff... Ah, my head hurts.
maybe i should try and find a dealer selling a car with the standard system, and see if i can get a good listen, and if it sounds close to, or as good as what i have now, that would be it, problem solved. i'd then only have to make sure never to hear the premium system...
but how difficult would this be to do? are you talking about aftermarket stuff? i don't think that would be very easy to do at all, and i'd prefer to keep original jaguar stuff.
so, how difficult would it be to upgrade the standard system to the Jaguar premium system at a later stage? would it even be possible?
also, i'm having trouble imagining this standard system can sound worse than the system in my peugeot... after all, the peugeot cost £27k when new, and the Jag twice that!? but the peugeot's system IS miles better than the 2006 VW Golf GTI's top of the range stuff... Ah, my head hurts.
maybe i should try and find a dealer selling a car with the standard system, and see if i can get a good listen, and if it sounds close to, or as good as what i have now, that would be it, problem solved. i'd then only have to make sure never to hear the premium system...
kinjachris said:
So you are saying because one person has some problems with their new Jaguar, we should all refrain from buying one?
With a couple of spare hours to trawl the internet i could post similar things about virtually every make of car!
The guy in the video obviously has issues, however he needs to either find a better dealer or go through proper complaints proceedures to Jaguar. Plus, whilst it's no defence most 'brand new' models have some form of teething troubles.
I don't see how this guy's problem with his new XK is in anyway relevant to the OP asking about a 10 year old XJR?
kinjachris said:
Stop your bleeting This is so weird! I thought I posted this morning, and now that post is nowhere to be found!
Anyway, what I said was, that looking at various pictures of various cars available for sale, I noticed some of them had 2 buttons below the gear-lever, and some only one. I believe the "S" button is for Sport Mode, but I don't know what the other button is, and why some cars have it and some don't. Could anyone enlighten me please?
Regarding kinjachris' post, I really wasn't going to bother replying, I'm sorry you're having problems kinja, but as others have already said, your problems with your 07 Jag are hardly relevant to me, when I'm considering a car 7-9 years older. I hope you sort out your issues nevertheless.
Anyway, what I said was, that looking at various pictures of various cars available for sale, I noticed some of them had 2 buttons below the gear-lever, and some only one. I believe the "S" button is for Sport Mode, but I don't know what the other button is, and why some cars have it and some don't. Could anyone enlighten me please?
Regarding kinjachris' post, I really wasn't going to bother replying, I'm sorry you're having problems kinja, but as others have already said, your problems with your 07 Jag are hardly relevant to me, when I'm considering a car 7-9 years older. I hope you sort out your issues nevertheless.
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