RE: Jag coupe enhancements
Wednesday 13th June 2007
Goodbye to the old metal aerialFirstly, and very thankfully, the prehistoric metal aerial that sprouted from the big Jag’s flank has been replaced by a hidden item in the rear spoiler.
Subtle tweaks to XK and XKRStandard on the XKR Portfolio (SE) are five-spoke 20-inch polished Cremona alloy wheels, polished aluminium side vents and Celestial Black paint. The interior has had a makeover too – one of the few criticisms of the standard car – with a new Engine-Spun aluminium veneer as standard along with a new alloy and leather gearshift selector, soft-grab door handles, contrast stitching throughout the cabin and soft grain leather with warm charcoal or ivory seats.
Jag coupe enhancements
XK and XKR are fettled for 2008 model year
Despite an uncertain future ahead (see yesterday’s news story) Jaguar has unveiled some subtle updates to the excellent XK coupe.
Goodbye to the old metal aerial
Other improvements include revised door switch packs with a choice of aluminium or wood inserts, enhanced column stalks with chrome rings and the Piano Black veneer surrounding the instrument control panel and the ‘L’ gate surround. On a regular XK model there is no increase in the list price.
All XKR models now include as standard 20-inch double five-spoke Senta alloy wheels, Jaguar Premium Surround Sound, heated front windscreen and bright finish alloy pedals as standard. The revised price of the XKR coupe is now £70,097 while the convertible is now £76,097.
The range also has a new flagship model in the Jaguar XKR Portfolio Special Edition.
Subtle tweaks to XK and XKR
The XKR Portfolio also features a new high-performance braking system with 400mm front discs and 350mm rear discs – the largest ever fitted to a production Jaguar.
The big coupe is the first production example of a new partnership with renowned audio entertainment specialists Bowers & Wilkins. This loudspeaker manufacturer worked alongside Jaguar to create a speaker system for the recent C-XF concept car, but the XKR Portfolio is the first production Jaguar to benefit from the relationship.
The 4.2-litre supercharged XKR Portfolio coupe will be sold worldwide with just 60 units on sale in the UK at £75,597 - a premium of £5,500 over the 2008 Model Year XKR coupe. It’s available to order now with deliveries expected in late summer.
Some Portfolio edition goodies are also available on the XK and XKR: the polished five-spoke 20-inch Cremona alloy wheels (available to order from September 2007); luxury sport interior theme with contrast stitching; alloy ‘L-Gate’ surround and gear-knob (with Piano Black insert), Bowers & Wilkins Premium Sound system at 525 watts and the Alcon High Performance Braking System.
Discussion
Triple7 said:
The XK is finally getting to where it should have been at launch. I hear the first proper face lift (not these tweaks) will do away with the gear lever and be replaced with the XF style rotory selector.
Please peeps, buy these cars, its the only way Jag will survive.
G
It's not the XKs and XJs that are the problem. They can compete very well with everything out there.Please peeps, buy these cars, its the only way Jag will survive.
G
Jags problem is that Ford tried to send them down market to compte with brands where they didn't stand a chance. The death of Rover was the clearest indication that not enough people wanted fuddy duddy saloons for that to ever be a winner.
Biggest problem is selling this crock is that no one in their right minds will want to take on the X or the S, but rather just the premium ones with the funds to build a baby sports car.
errek72 said:
bob1179 said:
Does anybody reckon that with Aston Martin sold that Jaguar will fianlly offer a manual option on the XK?
That was my first thought on reading the title. The second was "more bhp".I'm not sure what I would do with a manual box in an XKR, the on time I floored one through first and second I found it hard enough to keep up with changing gear on the paddles. I know the argument is really more about the feel of the thing, but I suspect that the manual would end up being slower at road speeds and probably at everything short of track driving.
[quote=Horse_Apple
It's not the XKs and XJs that are the problem. They can compete very well with everything out there.
Jags problem is that Ford tried to send them down market to compte with brands where they didn't stand a chance. The death of Rover was the clearest indication that not enough people wanted fuddy duddy saloons for that to ever be a winner.
Biggest problem is selling this crock is that no one in their right minds will want to take on the X or the S, but rather just the premium ones with the funds to build a baby sports car.
[/quote]
Huh?? what did he say? Excuse me while me whipes the BS off me shoes ....
It's not the XKs and XJs that are the problem. They can compete very well with everything out there.
Jags problem is that Ford tried to send them down market to compte with brands where they didn't stand a chance. The death of Rover was the clearest indication that not enough people wanted fuddy duddy saloons for that to ever be a winner.
Biggest problem is selling this crock is that no one in their right minds will want to take on the X or the S, but rather just the premium ones with the funds to build a baby sports car.
[/quote]
Huh?? what did he say? Excuse me while me whipes the BS off me shoes ....
thirsty said:
[quote=Horse_Apple
It's not the XKs and XJs that are the problem. They can compete very well with everything out there.
Jags problem is that Ford tried to send them down market to compte with brands where they didn't stand a chance. The death of Rover was the clearest indication that not enough people wanted fuddy duddy saloons for that to ever be a winner.
Biggest problem is selling this crock is that no one in their right minds will want to take on the X or the S, but rather just the premium ones with the funds to build a baby sports car.
Huh?? what did he say? Excuse me while me whipes the BS off me shoes ....It's not the XKs and XJs that are the problem. They can compete very well with everything out there.
Jags problem is that Ford tried to send them down market to compte with brands where they didn't stand a chance. The death of Rover was the clearest indication that not enough people wanted fuddy duddy saloons for that to ever be a winner.
Biggest problem is selling this crock is that no one in their right minds will want to take on the X or the S, but rather just the premium ones with the funds to build a baby sports car.
Biggest problem is selling this crock is that no one in their right minds will want to take on the X or the S, but rather just the premium ones with the funds to build a baby sports car.
[/quote]
As somebody who has bought 2 new X 2.5 awd types, I'll let you into a secret without the X there would be no XK! Also if you want to kill Jaguar in today's market remove the entry rungs to the marque. I don't see Audi, BMW, Lexus or Mercedes taking that road. Remember the saying 'Give me the boy at 7 and I'll give you the man'. Today's brand led selling in the car industry is exactly the same give me the man in his 20's (Audi A3,4, BMW 3, C Class , Lexus 200) and you'll get brand loyalty, I see it in my own work colleagues, they started with BMW 3 or Audi A4 now they drive 5 series or A6. You will not get people to jump into the rarified world of XK and XJ Jaguar in their 40's or 50's if they've spent 20 years driving around german prestige brands! I'm the only jag owner in the office why, because I made a decision to try something different, the vast majority of car owners stick with what they know. 20-30 year olds don't buy XJ or XK but they might buy a smaller jag to get them on the rung. The X was a first stab at the market and it's a decent car , those who say mondeo well I say the S had 40% Lincoln in it the X is less than 18% Mondeo, platform and engine sharing VW has taken it to the extreme a Skoda and an Audi are only clothed differently and nobody says your AUDI is a SKODA.
If jaguar is to survive then it has to live in the 21st century market not rely on the past glories of Sir William Lyons era. If the new owners kill the X type and drop the XF Jaguar will have 2 cars the XK brilliant but will never sell enough to finance a replacement and the XJ which although ultra modern underneath is clothed in a 1960's style that has left the public uninterested. In less than 5 years with that line up Jaguar could be facing the same fate as Rover and TVR aging models no money to replace them and a public perception of a company on its last legs, just look how Rover sales collapsed in the final 2 years. Jaguar can't really charge more for the XK as it will then fall into the Aston market, so where's the replacement money coming from it has to be a high seller saloon and that will have to be an X/S replacement XF in the £25,000-45,000 range.
[/quote]
As somebody who has bought 2 new X 2.5 awd types, I'll let you into a secret without the X there would be no XK! Also if you want to kill Jaguar in today's market remove the entry rungs to the marque. I don't see Audi, BMW, Lexus or Mercedes taking that road. Remember the saying 'Give me the boy at 7 and I'll give you the man'. Today's brand led selling in the car industry is exactly the same give me the man in his 20's (Audi A3,4, BMW 3, C Class , Lexus 200) and you'll get brand loyalty, I see it in my own work colleagues, they started with BMW 3 or Audi A4 now they drive 5 series or A6. You will not get people to jump into the rarified world of XK and XJ Jaguar in their 40's or 50's if they've spent 20 years driving around german prestige brands! I'm the only jag owner in the office why, because I made a decision to try something different, the vast majority of car owners stick with what they know. 20-30 year olds don't buy XJ or XK but they might buy a smaller jag to get them on the rung. The X was a first stab at the market and it's a decent car , those who say mondeo well I say the S had 40% Lincoln in it the X is less than 18% Mondeo, platform and engine sharing VW has taken it to the extreme a Skoda and an Audi are only clothed differently and nobody says your AUDI is a SKODA.
If jaguar is to survive then it has to live in the 21st century market not rely on the past glories of Sir William Lyons era. If the new owners kill the X type and drop the XF Jaguar will have 2 cars the XK brilliant but will never sell enough to finance a replacement and the XJ which although ultra modern underneath is clothed in a 1960's style that has left the public uninterested. In less than 5 years with that line up Jaguar could be facing the same fate as Rover and TVR aging models no money to replace them and a public perception of a company on its last legs, just look how Rover sales collapsed in the final 2 years. Jaguar can't really charge more for the XK as it will then fall into the Aston market, so where's the replacement money coming from it has to be a high seller saloon and that will have to be an X/S replacement XF in the £25,000-45,000 range.
dominicf said:
someone else said:
Biggest problem is selling this crock is that no one in their right minds will want to take on the X or the S, but rather just the premium ones with the funds to build a baby sports car.
As somebody who has bought 2 new X 2.5 awd types, I'll let you into a secret without the X there would be no XK! Also if you want to kill Jaguar in today's market remove the entry rungs to the marque. I don't see Audi, BMW, Lexus or Mercedes taking that road. I used to work in Jag finance:-
- the investment for X-type was taken from the cancelled F-Type programme.
- Jaguar lost a lot of money on every X-type sold - the only individually-profitable cars were the original XK and the XJ...S-Type was borderline depending on model.
- X-Type was forced on Jag because Ford (well, Nasser) wanted Jag to become another BMW, with >200k volume sales per annum, rather than (IMHO correctly) keeping it as a prestige brand closer to a luxury-focused Porsche.
- Oh yes, the other reason for X-Type was because with the Escort ending production Ford had a nice shiny factory at Halewood going begging and they saw a way to dump it on Jag's books. Jag's support functions were also geared up to support a 200,000 car volume, and hence have about twice the headcount they actually need.
In other words, Jag's current woes can be attributed to two main causes:-
- Mis-management and mis-direction from across the Atlantic;
- Outdated styling which was poorly received by the market.
X-Type has considerably increased the foot fall through dealerships (especially in the US). The use of it asa C-sector car to springboard the buyer further up the product range isn't to be overlooked longterm as has been alluded to in this thread. Interesting to note also that if you take away X-Type volume away from some of the dealerships, they (the dealerships) aren't viable anymore.
For those that own them or have spent any time in an X-Type will realise what a cracking car they are especially in 4WD format.
For those that own them or have spent any time in an X-Type will realise what a cracking car they are especially in 4WD format.
thirsty said:
[quote=Horse_Apple
It's not the XKs and XJs that are the problem. They can compete very well with everything out there.
Jags problem is that Ford tried to send them down market to compte with brands where they didn't stand a chance. The death of Rover was the clearest indication that not enough people wanted fuddy duddy saloons for that to ever be a winner.
Biggest problem is selling this crock is that no one in their right minds will want to take on the X or the S, but rather just the premium ones with the funds to build a baby sports car.
Huh?? what did he say? Excuse me while me whipes the BS off me shoes ....It's not the XKs and XJs that are the problem. They can compete very well with everything out there.
Jags problem is that Ford tried to send them down market to compte with brands where they didn't stand a chance. The death of Rover was the clearest indication that not enough people wanted fuddy duddy saloons for that to ever be a winner.
Biggest problem is selling this crock is that no one in their right minds will want to take on the X or the S, but rather just the premium ones with the funds to build a baby sports car.
Get the top end right, which I think they have and you don't need the cheapies to get people in the door.
The XK is a great car, the XJ is a classic and that new saloon looks stunning. I doubt any purchaser will carry the X or the S on for long, if at all.
Going downmarket when the whole industry was going up was simply a bad move.
The F type would have done more for Jag than the x type.
In other words, Jag's current woes can be attributed to two main causes:-
- Mis-management and mis-direction from across the Atlantic;
- Outdated styling which was poorly received by the market.
[/quote]
I can add the 3rd and it's the killer £1 = $2 exchange rate. No American will pay $140,000 for an XKR given UK price of £70,000 and according to the offical US website the current
XKR price is $86,500 or £43,500 (- dealer cut, taxes, transportation cost, build costs) I don't see a huge profit margin in that kind of business.
As for the X well Jaguar only sell the top spec 3.0 auto at $34,995 = £17,497.50 that's £4,000 below the lowest spec 2.0 D in the UK!
Jaguars biggest mistake with the X was it wasn't launched with a diesel in the lineup and a powerful diesel at that with AWD and a choice of AUTO/MANUAL. In America they tried to give them away to get market share and this quickly hit the depreciation.
With only the XK and XJ Jaguars customer base was an aging profle base that without young fresh blood from X and S owners Jaguar would have already probably ceased to exist along with their customer base.
I don't think the F type would have turned the corner for the business, BMW Z3/4 and Porshe Boxster/Cayman have the market and also with the Mazda RX8 and Nissan 350 the competition is stiff in a fairly niche market, once again you are looking at selling low numbers. TVR couldn't make a sustainable business in that price range, why do you think Jaguar could?
dominicf said:
TVR couldn't make a sustainable business in that price range, why do you think Jaguar could?
Better quality glue would have helped, I'm sure. 
Along with economies of scale.I think the timing of the F would have been critical. I suspect if you did it now it would not have the same impact as back when it was mooted.
As you say Boxsters et al do have that market sown up but back then there was still a fair share up for grabs and the F with the looks and pedigree I think would have taken a hold.
If you want to get younger people into your brand you offer them an exciting vehicle like a Boxster or an Aston V8, not a boring saloon.
They went for the X to take on the fleet market, not to find young buyers and they completely under estimated the strength of the firms already in that market. It's a shame as they are good cars, but just not the right move for that company.
dominicf said:
I can add the 3rd and it's the killer £1 = $2 exchange rate. No American will pay $140,000 for an XKR given UK price of £70,000 and according to the offical US website the current
XKR price is $86,500 or £43,500 (- dealer cut, taxes, transportation cost, build costs) I don't see a huge profit margin in that kind of business.?
Porsche are managing quite happily, as are Merc, and the $ is as weak against the Euro...XKR price is $86,500 or £43,500 (- dealer cut, taxes, transportation cost, build costs) I don't see a huge profit margin in that kind of business.?
So your argument, while factually correct, doesn't actually hold much water.
Ignoring the US, as it's not the be-all and end-all of things...
dominicf said:
With only the XK and XJ Jaguars customer base was an aging profle base that without young fresh blood from X and S owners Jaguar would have already probably ceased to exist along with their customer base.
I don't think the F type would have turned the corner for the business, BMW Z3/4 and Porshe Boxster/Cayman have the market and also with the Mazda RX8 and Nissan 350 the competition is stiff in a fairly niche market, once again you are looking at selling low numbers. TVR couldn't make a sustainable business in that price range, why do you think Jaguar could?
You really DON'T KNOW the history of the brand, do you?I don't think the F type would have turned the corner for the business, BMW Z3/4 and Porshe Boxster/Cayman have the market and also with the Mazda RX8 and Nissan 350 the competition is stiff in a fairly niche market, once again you are looking at selling low numbers. TVR couldn't make a sustainable business in that price range, why do you think Jaguar could?
As said above, F-Type was YEARS ago - BEFORE X-Type, as I've already said once. It would have hit market between 1997 and 1999 (depending on decisions and snagging), about the same time as the Boxster and before everything else bar the sub-standard Z3 and the differently-pitched S2000 and Chimaera. It WOULD have revitalised the brand quite well, IMHO.
IMHO, the staid-looks of the X and S-Types only reinforced the 'aged' image of the brand, whereas a very modern and sporting F-Type would have done just the opposite. Hence my 'styling' comment earlier.
Oh...TVR had a completely different product - hardcore sports cars made poorly, not luxury sporting items made with all the leather, wood veneer, and toys an executive could want. Moreover, it had a completely different business profile, and didn't have the deep pockets of Ford*. You cannot compare them and be considered a serious pundit on the auto industry, sorry mate!
- Jaguar has actually lost more per car sold than TVR over the last 5 years (rough top-of-head sums suggests £5k a vehicle. But allow say a 30% possible error there). Without Ford's largesse it would have gone to the wall long-ago. But then, IMHO, Ford created half the feckin problem in the first place.
Havoc said
Ignoring the US, as it's not the be-all and end-all of things...
Dominicf
The US does matter ever since the launch of the XK120 the US has been Jagaurs biggest export market and just look at these horrendous official sales figures recently released
and you can't just blame the X it's only sold as 3.0 auto in the states.
Jaguar May 2007 May 2006 % Change
All Vehicles 1,379 2,374 -44.1%
Jaguar Yr-to-Date Prev Year % Change
All Vehicles 7,051 9,489 -26.3%
Havoc said
You really DON'T KNOW the history of the brand, do you?
As said above, F-Type was YEARS ago - BEFORE X-Type, as I've already said once. It would have hit market between 1997 and 1999 (depending on decisions and snagging), about the same time as the Boxster and before everything else bar the sub-standard Z3 and the differently-pitched S2000 and Chimaera. It WOULD have revitalised the brand quite well, IMHO.
Dominicf
I've a got a model of the F type so don't tell what I do and don't know! The Boxster was on the road in 1996 so it still would have had a head start on the F type. Given that Jaguar had just launched the XK in 1996 and the X300 in 1995 I'd guess they'd have been fairly stretched with the development of the 'S' type for its 1998 launch. So resources for the F type minimal. I agree that from the model it looked great but I also think if launched the F might have stole sales from its big brother the XK8, for people who wanted a jaguar but a sportscar not a GT and of course that would have hit the bottom line as the XK8 carries a larger profit margin, something jaguar has desperately needed for years a profit.
Ignoring the US, as it's not the be-all and end-all of things...
Dominicf
The US does matter ever since the launch of the XK120 the US has been Jagaurs biggest export market and just look at these horrendous official sales figures recently released
and you can't just blame the X it's only sold as 3.0 auto in the states.
Jaguar May 2007 May 2006 % Change
All Vehicles 1,379 2,374 -44.1%
Jaguar Yr-to-Date Prev Year % Change
All Vehicles 7,051 9,489 -26.3%
Havoc said
You really DON'T KNOW the history of the brand, do you?
As said above, F-Type was YEARS ago - BEFORE X-Type, as I've already said once. It would have hit market between 1997 and 1999 (depending on decisions and snagging), about the same time as the Boxster and before everything else bar the sub-standard Z3 and the differently-pitched S2000 and Chimaera. It WOULD have revitalised the brand quite well, IMHO.
Dominicf
I've a got a model of the F type so don't tell what I do and don't know! The Boxster was on the road in 1996 so it still would have had a head start on the F type. Given that Jaguar had just launched the XK in 1996 and the X300 in 1995 I'd guess they'd have been fairly stretched with the development of the 'S' type for its 1998 launch. So resources for the F type minimal. I agree that from the model it looked great but I also think if launched the F might have stole sales from its big brother the XK8, for people who wanted a jaguar but a sportscar not a GT and of course that would have hit the bottom line as the XK8 carries a larger profit margin, something jaguar has desperately needed for years a profit.
Edited by dominicf on Friday 15th June 09:48
Edited by dominicf on Friday 15th June 10:05
Edited by dominicf on Friday 15th June 10:09
dominicf said:
The Boxster was on the road in 1996 so it still would have had a head start on the F type. Given that Jaguar had just launched the XK in 1996 and the X300 in 1995 I'd guess they'd have been fairly stretched with the development of the 'S' type for its 1998 launch. So resources for the F type minimal. I agree that from the model it looked great but I also think if launched the F might have stole sales from its big brother the XK8, for people who wanted a jaguar but a sportscar not a GT and of course that would have hit the bottom line as the XK8 carries a larger profit margin, something jaguar has desperately needed for years a profit.
Yes, the Boxster would have had a head-start. But they didn't put a decent engine in it until 1998/99.Re: development programme - they were already half-way through the programme when it was canned and staff/resources switched to the X-Type, which was launched in 2001. So the decision would (my guess) have been c.1997/98...meaning F-Type launch would probably have come in before 2000. Bit later than my first estimate, granted, but still ahead of most of competition.
Re: XK sales...not a chance! A £40k roadster vs a £60-70k GT / GT convertible. How many 911 sales has the Boxster taken? Very few, I'd wager.
My point initially was that the X-Type decision was a very poor one for Jag, as was canning the F-Type (although I understand there were design issues which may have contributed to management's decision), and your earlier comment that X- and S-Types kept Jag afloat was completely contrary to financial fact.
We're now getting into minor details which, quite frankly, aren't that relevant to the fact that you posted complete rubbish the other day.
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