Jags, are they fragile?
Discussion
As an owner of his 2nd Jag I'm curious to see how people percieve the brand.
I had an X type a year or so ago which I did like but it was a bit problematical at first, luckily all under warranty (power steering pump, seat module and some bits & pieces)
My XJ8 is great and I paid naff all for it so I'm not at all expecting perfection but reading on here and elsewhere on the web it seems it can sometimes be a bit pot luck as to whether you get a nice car or a Friday afternoon job.
Would be interested in folks thoughts on this.
I had an X type a year or so ago which I did like but it was a bit problematical at first, luckily all under warranty (power steering pump, seat module and some bits & pieces)
My XJ8 is great and I paid naff all for it so I'm not at all expecting perfection but reading on here and elsewhere on the web it seems it can sometimes be a bit pot luck as to whether you get a nice car or a Friday afternoon job.
Would be interested in folks thoughts on this.
I think that in the case of older, used Jaguars it's not a case of 'Friday afternoonism', more a question of how they've been treated by previous owners. The problem seems to be twofold - firstly, many new Jags are bought by people with money but no mechanical understanding or sympathy (the 'start 'er up, drive out of the garage on Sunday morning, switch off, wash it, start up, drive back in, switch off, wonder why it won't start on Monday morning and why, after the AA have been called out several times in repeat performances, there's no Nikasil left on the bores and a new engine is needed syndrome) and secondly, the impoverished buyer who's always fancied one of those tasty Jags and can now afford one but can't afford the proper servicing and, 'in any case, I'm only keeping it for a year or so, so it doesn't matter if the odd oil change etc gets missed'. Caveat emptor.
Nope bullet proof on the whole. They have once again regained the top spot in the JD Power & Associates league for excellent cars. Forums are always a magnet for bad news. Jag IMHO have very good build qualities. As with any machine it can go wrong. Go ask the same Q on the BMW forum....... 
G
G
Still on my first Jag but agree with sliced bread on the type of owner being a significant factor.
Also I think it's worth remember that compared to most saloons jags are heavy, higher performance and often have quite complicated gadgetry that will fail if not properly maintained ("Sealed for life" gearbox for example"). So it's not really fair to compare them with uber-simple ecohatches.
I also think that what most people class as "failure" is important. If a clutch goes on a 5 year car I don't consider that unreliable. Nor synchros on a high performance car after 10 years. Or ball joints on the Jag every 3 years etc... Some people have very high expectations because they're making unrealistic comparisons.
It's all relative is my point.
Also I think it's worth remember that compared to most saloons jags are heavy, higher performance and often have quite complicated gadgetry that will fail if not properly maintained ("Sealed for life" gearbox for example"). So it's not really fair to compare them with uber-simple ecohatches.
I also think that what most people class as "failure" is important. If a clutch goes on a 5 year car I don't consider that unreliable. Nor synchros on a high performance car after 10 years. Or ball joints on the Jag every 3 years etc... Some people have very high expectations because they're making unrealistic comparisons.
It's all relative is my point.
G_T said:
Also I think it's worth remember that compared to most saloons jags are heavy, higher performance and often have quite complicated gadgetry that will fail if not properly maintained ("Sealed for life" gearbox for example"). So it's not really fair to compare them with uber-simple ecohatches.
I also think that what most people class as "failure" is important. If a clutch goes on a 5 year car I don't consider that unreliable. Nor synchros on a high performance car after 10 years. Or ball joints on the Jag every 3 years etc... Some people have very high expectations because they're making unrealistic comparisons.
It's all relative is my point.
Well put.
When you consider the 650 Horses my XKR is putting out now againt the original 370 and everything is still holding together.
It must be a good design and build
I also think that what most people class as "failure" is important. If a clutch goes on a 5 year car I don't consider that unreliable. Nor synchros on a high performance car after 10 years. Or ball joints on the Jag every 3 years etc... Some people have very high expectations because they're making unrealistic comparisons.
It's all relative is my point.
Well put.
When you consider the 650 Horses my XKR is putting out now againt the original 370 and everything is still holding together.
It must be a good design and build
John Egan and then Ford ownership introduced massive improvements in quality - anybody who remembers the Leyland years and worked on cars in the late '70s can't argue any other way.
Unfortunately it's much harder to get rid of precieved wisdom than actual fact. The later XJ40s and the X300 were very well made cars, and IMO, if Jaguar had managed to prevent the well publicised X308 failings then the reputation for improved quality would have sooner or later been consolidated.
But timing chain tensioners - a penny pinching piece of crap that will cause thousands of pounds worth of damage when it breaks - waterpumps and thermostats (likewise), sealed for life gearboxes that disintigrate at as little as 70/80000 miles and virtually terminal corrosion round the subframe mountings on a really bad example all suggest to me that you have to be very carefull if you're considering a X308 as a good long term bet. Add a bit of dodgy fit and finish here and there you can find on the X308 and the percieved wisdom starts bubbilng up from under the surface again.
Most reliability indexes and customer satisfaction surveys don't take the long term view, but anybody who wants to avoid crippiling depreciation has to do just that and the only way to get round that one is carefully buying a good one and looking after it.
Cars are rather like dogs - they do tend to reflect their owners, especially if they are getting on a bit. Treat it with love and care and look after it and it will reward you with years of faithful service.
Ignore it, neglect it and ill treat it and it will rapidly degenerate into a bad-tempered, wallet hammering pain in the backside.
Unfortunately it's much harder to get rid of precieved wisdom than actual fact. The later XJ40s and the X300 were very well made cars, and IMO, if Jaguar had managed to prevent the well publicised X308 failings then the reputation for improved quality would have sooner or later been consolidated.
But timing chain tensioners - a penny pinching piece of crap that will cause thousands of pounds worth of damage when it breaks - waterpumps and thermostats (likewise), sealed for life gearboxes that disintigrate at as little as 70/80000 miles and virtually terminal corrosion round the subframe mountings on a really bad example all suggest to me that you have to be very carefull if you're considering a X308 as a good long term bet. Add a bit of dodgy fit and finish here and there you can find on the X308 and the percieved wisdom starts bubbilng up from under the surface again.
Most reliability indexes and customer satisfaction surveys don't take the long term view, but anybody who wants to avoid crippiling depreciation has to do just that and the only way to get round that one is carefully buying a good one and looking after it.
Cars are rather like dogs - they do tend to reflect their owners, especially if they are getting on a bit. Treat it with love and care and look after it and it will reward you with years of faithful service.
Ignore it, neglect it and ill treat it and it will rapidly degenerate into a bad-tempered, wallet hammering pain in the backside.
Are we talking about my wife now?
I think I have a good XJ8 and it seems to have been owned by an older chap that didn't scrimp on anything.
The VIN is post Nikasil and tensioner issues and everything has been done by a main dealer, all the services, the new steering rack at 70k even the recent battery was OE and he's kept all the receipts and old MOT's.
I expect things to go wrong, it has 87000 miles up after all but I do agree with the look after it for reward notion.
I think I have a good XJ8 and it seems to have been owned by an older chap that didn't scrimp on anything.
The VIN is post Nikasil and tensioner issues and everything has been done by a main dealer, all the services, the new steering rack at 70k even the recent battery was OE and he's kept all the receipts and old MOT's.
I expect things to go wrong, it has 87000 miles up after all but I do agree with the look after it for reward notion.
imho compared to other large heavy performance cars i think the jags are more robust..
my mechanic (BMW Master tec) tends to give my jag the once over every year to keep an eye on things. so far he has been impressed with the wear and tear. he doesn't think bushes and ball joints are a problem on the jag, most 5 series/7 series are exactly the same.. except on the jag the the worn out bushes / ball joints tend to play havoc with the steering feel less so on the BMWs. but that doesn't mean the BMW are better these items tend to get missed off because it doesn't seem to effect the drive so much other than odd tyre wear.
compared to my friends 996 and 3200GT, the jag has been far more reliable, in fact its been faultless. unlike the 996 (rads, aircon condensors, electrical problems, coolant issues, RMS). the 3200GT is better but has started to rust, needed new rear exhaust boxes, engine management problems..
Funny how people view the jags, relatives all ask the question 'how is the jag running' with a smirk. i can only assume they are expecting something to go wrong.. my comment is usually starts with a blank face followed by 'yeah its good, how the Merc/BMW running?'. the stigma of old jags rusting away and falling apart are still remembered. funny how many old jags are still running..
NST
my mechanic (BMW Master tec) tends to give my jag the once over every year to keep an eye on things. so far he has been impressed with the wear and tear. he doesn't think bushes and ball joints are a problem on the jag, most 5 series/7 series are exactly the same.. except on the jag the the worn out bushes / ball joints tend to play havoc with the steering feel less so on the BMWs. but that doesn't mean the BMW are better these items tend to get missed off because it doesn't seem to effect the drive so much other than odd tyre wear.
compared to my friends 996 and 3200GT, the jag has been far more reliable, in fact its been faultless. unlike the 996 (rads, aircon condensors, electrical problems, coolant issues, RMS). the 3200GT is better but has started to rust, needed new rear exhaust boxes, engine management problems..
Funny how people view the jags, relatives all ask the question 'how is the jag running' with a smirk. i can only assume they are expecting something to go wrong.. my comment is usually starts with a blank face followed by 'yeah its good, how the Merc/BMW running?'. the stigma of old jags rusting away and falling apart are still remembered. funny how many old jags are still running..
NST
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