Jaguar ending X-Type production at Halewood
Discussion
The beeb yesterday was carrying a story that Jaguar are end X-Type production early at Halewood.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/8151...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/8151...
Now the XJ is launched with all new range in the showrooms there will be no room for the X-Type. It will look terribly dated next to the XF,XJ,XK. Shame, if times were better I could see the X getting a proper make over, but I guess it would need new engines etc. All too expensive.
Not to worry, get the new XE out as well and Jaguar will be flying. Hope the recession is over by the end of the year for all our sakes.....
Not to worry, get the new XE out as well and Jaguar will be flying. Hope the recession is over by the end of the year for all our sakes.....
RW774 said:
Maybe the continued parts/ engine deals will be extended to floor pans too.
I agree.A small saloon,say fiesta size with some hot options would be interesting. Tata do seem very quiet though.
On the basis they seem to be going cap in hand to the government for money, it doesnt seem that they have any money to develop a brand new car!?I agree.A small saloon,say fiesta size with some hot options would be interesting. Tata do seem very quiet though.
As I understand it, quite a lot work had been done on the XF/XK/XJ before the takeover, and so most of the development cost had already been overseen by Ford.
No.. no loss at all IMO. The X Type was too much of a off brand image excursion for Jaguar and would never recover from the down market "rebadged Mondeo" stigma it carried. It may well have been a better car than the pundits ever believed it to be, and it may well have made Jaguar money for a while, but still it diluted and poisioned the brand - without the brilliance of either a 3 series BMW or the dependibility of a Mercedes taxi outside Munich airport where was it to go? Sidelined outside neat semis in middle class subrbia perhaps? A particurlarly English wood and leather upmarket Honda/Rover or Allegro Vanden Plas kind of car? My first Jaguar - "oh just look at us, aren't we posh?" - no, really that's not good enough. Jaguar, and real Jaguar enthusiasts deserve and expect better than the X Type could ever offer.
So, bye bye X Type. Bye bye, the £20k car that put a thrill into Mutton dressesd as Lamb Daily Mail readers trousers by shamlessly apeing and imiatating and copiying all the styling cues of the the real deal £40k XJ with its classic 40 year heritage. Sorry for Halewood and the guys who'll be worrying about the future but there you are. No loss really at all.
Edited by Jaguar steve on Friday 17th July 22:01
Before the X-type hit the streets, it was the car that BMW's marketing zeebs feared most. The husband of the a woman I used to work with was in marketing at the BMW place round the corner. They were worried what the Jaguar brand could do to their money making position of selling 3 series to all and sundry.
You really didn't like them, Steve, did you?
I thought it was a good car, and a perfectly acceptable way to get into new Jaguar ownership for those who didn't want to stretch to one of the bigger ones. Jaguar always made cheaper end models, and something like this could easily have been a big success for them. Personally I would have had one of these (a 3 litre AWD) ahead of a BMW 3 series any day.
But I think in the current climate, you have to accept that the best way for Jaguar is up, and I guess, sadly for the lads who work at Halewood, that they will want to cut capacity.
What's an XE anyway? Do you mean 'the E-Type replacement'? What exactly do people think that the E-Type was? Let me tell you. It was an XK150 replacement which played on the racing charisma that the C and D had created. We have got the XK, which is as near a two seater as makes no difference, and for performance would blow just about anything away, we are going to have the smaller Boxster competitor, we are going to have an XJC by the looks of things. What other opening in the market do people see for another Jaguar sports car?
I thought it was a good car, and a perfectly acceptable way to get into new Jaguar ownership for those who didn't want to stretch to one of the bigger ones. Jaguar always made cheaper end models, and something like this could easily have been a big success for them. Personally I would have had one of these (a 3 litre AWD) ahead of a BMW 3 series any day.
But I think in the current climate, you have to accept that the best way for Jaguar is up, and I guess, sadly for the lads who work at Halewood, that they will want to cut capacity.
What's an XE anyway? Do you mean 'the E-Type replacement'? What exactly do people think that the E-Type was? Let me tell you. It was an XK150 replacement which played on the racing charisma that the C and D had created. We have got the XK, which is as near a two seater as makes no difference, and for performance would blow just about anything away, we are going to have the smaller Boxster competitor, we are going to have an XJC by the looks of things. What other opening in the market do people see for another Jaguar sports car?
You really didn't like them, Steve, did you?
Actually I don't dislike the car itself at all. Two of our friends have X Types and I've ridden in and driven both - in isolation it's a nice car. My opinion - and that's all my post was about - was there's nothing wrong with the X Type but it's the image that goes with it - that of a rebadged Mondeo bought by people desperate to impress the neighbours with a "classy" car that has done so much damage to the exclusivity of the Jaguar brand.
Personally I dislike aspirational cars and the kind of people who are attracted to them, in my view that's what the X Type is. I really don't like the deliberate similarity of styling between the X Type and the X350 either. The big car styling cues such as the fluted bonnet, haunches over the rear wheels and boat tail are traditional Jaguar trademarks and work so well on the XJ but in my view just look ridiculous and pretentious scaled down on a smaller model.
Jaguar had the opportunity to do somthing completely different and unique - like the S Type - with the small car but chose to clone the XJ instead. IMO that works when a £20k X Type is styled to look almost identical to it's £40k big brother of course, but if you do that then where's the incentive to pay £40k for a XJ when it's easily mistaken for and associated with somthing percieved as considerably down market and sold at half the price?.
I do wonder just how much the decline in sales of the XJ and Jaguars finincial losses over the last few years has been due to precicely the X Type effect on the brand.
Actually I don't dislike the car itself at all. Two of our friends have X Types and I've ridden in and driven both - in isolation it's a nice car. My opinion - and that's all my post was about - was there's nothing wrong with the X Type but it's the image that goes with it - that of a rebadged Mondeo bought by people desperate to impress the neighbours with a "classy" car that has done so much damage to the exclusivity of the Jaguar brand.
Personally I dislike aspirational cars and the kind of people who are attracted to them, in my view that's what the X Type is. I really don't like the deliberate similarity of styling between the X Type and the X350 either. The big car styling cues such as the fluted bonnet, haunches over the rear wheels and boat tail are traditional Jaguar trademarks and work so well on the XJ but in my view just look ridiculous and pretentious scaled down on a smaller model.
Jaguar had the opportunity to do somthing completely different and unique - like the S Type - with the small car but chose to clone the XJ instead. IMO that works when a £20k X Type is styled to look almost identical to it's £40k big brother of course, but if you do that then where's the incentive to pay £40k for a XJ when it's easily mistaken for and associated with somthing percieved as considerably down market and sold at half the price?.
I do wonder just how much the decline in sales of the XJ and Jaguars finincial losses over the last few years has been due to precicely the X Type effect on the brand.
The X broke the bank for Jaguar, took all the development, planning and money for the F type plus huge extra investment from Ford .
It never hit the sales targets both at home and abroad as planned and never really made that dent in BMW sales. From a workshop point of view,they are okay now and the diesel is a very good product.But there were huge issues again with build quality early on,poor fuel consumption,4wd auto boxes going pop after low mileages, engine seizures,transfer box problems,Instrument display etc etc which drained the company warranty coffers in a big way. Maybe even pushed Ford directors to consider offloading Jaguar .
Of course, Jaguar/ Ford with its` sub standard marketing could not hide the fact the early cars were not without problems. Bad experiences, poor workshop turn around, led to poor sales and the stigma it has now.
Steve I think the factory tried to keep the styling simular to the XJ , to keep with that older owner market. It was definetly a dissapointment to the motoring Press when it arrived, they felt the styling let it down and it would not appeal to BMW owners, they were right too.
As much as I hate to admit it, the mondeo base is very good and the mondeo is a good car. The component sharing / marketing works well for BMW who are not without their problems, so it just proves my point about Ford marketing .
Dump money far in excess of budget targets then drop it.
Crap management again in my view.
It never hit the sales targets both at home and abroad as planned and never really made that dent in BMW sales. From a workshop point of view,they are okay now and the diesel is a very good product.But there were huge issues again with build quality early on,poor fuel consumption,4wd auto boxes going pop after low mileages, engine seizures,transfer box problems,Instrument display etc etc which drained the company warranty coffers in a big way. Maybe even pushed Ford directors to consider offloading Jaguar .
Of course, Jaguar/ Ford with its` sub standard marketing could not hide the fact the early cars were not without problems. Bad experiences, poor workshop turn around, led to poor sales and the stigma it has now.
Steve I think the factory tried to keep the styling simular to the XJ , to keep with that older owner market. It was definetly a dissapointment to the motoring Press when it arrived, they felt the styling let it down and it would not appeal to BMW owners, they were right too.
As much as I hate to admit it, the mondeo base is very good and the mondeo is a good car. The component sharing / marketing works well for BMW who are not without their problems, so it just proves my point about Ford marketing .
Dump money far in excess of budget targets then drop it.
Crap management again in my view.
I can see it appealed to those who wanted a traditional Jag but smaller, but if you step outside a Jaguarcentric viewpoint and view it as a buyer of a small premium car, then it always was and still is bringing up the back of the pack. The premium CD sector is highly competitive with established vehicles from BMW, Mercedes and Audi. Quite frankly it just couldn't compete.
Can't die soon enough IMHO.
pp
Can't die soon enough IMHO.
pp
I liked the X-Type I tried.
However, I liked the S-Type even more.
I was seriously considering one - but the V6 AWD cars are a bit on the thirsty side and the diesel only came with FWD.
Shame the 2.7TT Diesel was never shoehorned into the AWD platform, as they would have made a fantastic company car....
However, I liked the S-Type even more.
I was seriously considering one - but the V6 AWD cars are a bit on the thirsty side and the diesel only came with FWD.
Shame the 2.7TT Diesel was never shoehorned into the AWD platform, as they would have made a fantastic company car....
Jaguar steve said:
there's nothing wrong with the X Type but it's the image that goes with it - that of a rebadged Mondeo bought by people desperate to impress the neighbours with a "classy" car that has done so much damage to the exclusivity of the Jaguar brand.
Most car firms do this. A Bentley is a re-badged VW/Audi/Skoda...A Lexus, Toyota Cedric
and lots more
They all are allowed to get away with it. But the UK press would never let Jag off the re-badged Mondeo thing.
RW774 said:
The X broke the bank for Jaguar, took all the development, planning and money for the F type plus huge extra investment from Ford .
It never hit the sales targets both at home and abroad as planned and never really made that dent in BMW sales. From a workshop point of view,they are okay now and the diesel is a very good product.But there were huge issues again with build quality early on,poor fuel consumption,4wd auto boxes going pop after low mileages, engine seizures,transfer box problems,Instrument display etc etc which drained the company warranty coffers in a big way. Maybe even pushed Ford directors to consider offloading Jaguar .
Of course, Jaguar/ Ford with its` sub standard marketing could not hide the fact the early cars were not without problems. Bad experiences, poor workshop turn around, led to poor sales and the stigma it has now.
Steve I think the factory tried to keep the styling simular to the XJ , to keep with that older owner market. It was definetly a dissapointment to the motoring Press when it arrived, they felt the styling let it down and it would not appeal to BMW owners, they were right too.
As much as I hate to admit it, the mondeo base is very good and the mondeo is a good car. The component sharing / marketing works well for BMW who are not without their problems, so it just proves my point about Ford marketing .
Dump money far in excess of budget targets then drop it.
Crap management again in my view.
I agree with most of this, fundamentally its a good car, but a bit like the S Type, when it was launched it was comprimised from the off and that seems to have coloured the media and public's perception and no matter how good the car became over the years, it never shook off that initial imageIt never hit the sales targets both at home and abroad as planned and never really made that dent in BMW sales. From a workshop point of view,they are okay now and the diesel is a very good product.But there were huge issues again with build quality early on,poor fuel consumption,4wd auto boxes going pop after low mileages, engine seizures,transfer box problems,Instrument display etc etc which drained the company warranty coffers in a big way. Maybe even pushed Ford directors to consider offloading Jaguar .
Of course, Jaguar/ Ford with its` sub standard marketing could not hide the fact the early cars were not without problems. Bad experiences, poor workshop turn around, led to poor sales and the stigma it has now.
Steve I think the factory tried to keep the styling simular to the XJ , to keep with that older owner market. It was definetly a dissapointment to the motoring Press when it arrived, they felt the styling let it down and it would not appeal to BMW owners, they were right too.
As much as I hate to admit it, the mondeo base is very good and the mondeo is a good car. The component sharing / marketing works well for BMW who are not without their problems, so it just proves my point about Ford marketing .
Dump money far in excess of budget targets then drop it.
Crap management again in my view.
a8hex said:
Jaguar steve said:
there's nothing wrong with the X Type but it's the image that goes with it - that of a rebadged Mondeo bought by people desperate to impress the neighbours with a "classy" car that has done so much damage to the exclusivity of the Jaguar brand.
Most car firms do this. A Bentley is a re-badged VW/Audi/Skoda...A Lexus, Toyota Cedric
and lots more
They all are allowed to get away with it. But the UK press would never let Jag off the re-badged Mondeo thing.
Perhaps it's because here in the UK not many people are sure what a Lincon is and how it fits in the motoring heirachy, yet everybody is familiar with Jaguar and Ford products.
Jaguar steve said:
a8hex said:
Jaguar steve said:
there's nothing wrong with the X Type but it's the image that goes with it - that of a rebadged Mondeo bought by people desperate to impress the neighbours with a "classy" car that has done so much damage to the exclusivity of the Jaguar brand.
Most car firms do this. A Bentley is a re-badged VW/Audi/Skoda...A Lexus, Toyota Cedric
and lots more
They all are allowed to get away with it. But the UK press would never let Jag off the re-badged Mondeo thing.
Perhaps it's because here in the UK not many people are sure what a Lincon is and how it fits in the motoring heirachy, yet everybody is familiar with Jaguar and Ford products.
The whole derogatory "Lincoln-Platform" remark is something that is completely undeserved. The platform that the S-type is based off was a brandnew platform designed by both Jaguar and Ford NA* to have the specification required for the class is was going to compete. It had the very-stiff chassis, 50-50 weight distribution, aluminium double wishbone suspension all round, the double-bulkhead construction for NVH isolation, the engines were competitive (the V6 at it's release was the most powerful 3.0 litre in it's class). It was also designed in such a way that at somepoint it would be able to spawn an Aluminium chassis, taking advantage of the work done by Ford Advanced Research on aluminium construction techniques. All the technical ingredients were there, although Jag would probably admit they may not have got the car completely right first time hence the vast improvement of post 2003 S-type. The platform has been evolved over the years to remain competetive, and it also helped spawn the Aluminium chassis that the XJ & XK are based on.
- The Lincoln LS that it shares it platform with was an attempt by Ford NA to take on the likes of BMW/Mercedes/Lexus and it is reflected in the spec. Lincoln was always a luxury brand in the US but it's luster had been lost over the years, in a similar manner to Jaguar. Unfortunately it wasn't succesful for a variety of reasons (too small & expensive for the average Lincoln buyer, looks weren't good enough & the brand not strong enough to attract the average BMW/Merc/Lexus buyer) however it does have a cult following in the US as one of the few domestic cars (prior to the Cadillac CTS) that technically takes on the "luxury-imports".
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