New Jaguar XJ - My pics
Discussion
Went to the Chicago Auto Show as I knew the new Jaguar XJ was going to be there and seeing as I haven't seen it in the flesh, thought I'd go and make my own mind up about the styling. Here are a few photos, which don't really do the car justice....
Black XJ L Supercharged:
Lunar XJ Supercharged:
In the flesh I thought it looks fantastic, the interior is a work of art through it's use of wood and leather. I would like to see what it is like to drive on UK roads, it feels a very large car on the outside, inside it feels snug, but roomy. The only concern I had was the size of the letterbox opening boot. I don't know how Jaguar do it, build large cars and have what seems small, shallow boots?!
However, what would you choose to be seen in out of the following:
For me it's absolutely no contest:
Black XJ L Supercharged:
Lunar XJ Supercharged:
In the flesh I thought it looks fantastic, the interior is a work of art through it's use of wood and leather. I would like to see what it is like to drive on UK roads, it feels a very large car on the outside, inside it feels snug, but roomy. The only concern I had was the size of the letterbox opening boot. I don't know how Jaguar do it, build large cars and have what seems small, shallow boots?!
However, what would you choose to be seen in out of the following:
For me it's absolutely no contest:
drivin_me_nuts said:
I realise this is a Jag forumette, but... a Jag over an Alpina.
really
I agree about the Alpina! However, the regular 750i looked boring and didn't warrant the effort of taking a pic of it! I'm merely highlighting how staid I think the other Euro saloons are becoming.really
The Leaper said:
drivin me nuts
clealy hasn't had spent time behind the wheel of an XFR. Maybe do so then see what you can say.
R.
Not my cup of tea to be honest. I don't get the whole Jaguar branding business and performance at these levels is six of one and half a dozen of the other. It's more subjective than ultimate performance or track times. clealy hasn't had spent time behind the wheel of an XFR. Maybe do so then see what you can say.
R.
What I find interesting is that I thinks the XFR exists purely because of cars like the AMG, RS and the M cars. It has always struck me that Jaguar has lagged behind these performance marques. I mean the new 5 series is already available, a new M5 around the corner and Jaguar will be left behind with an 'old' model. It's just my perception, you may agree or not, but Jaguar just don't seem to be 'with it' in the performance model development stakes.
As for Alpina, they are different. They walk their own path and they do it in a rather unique way. XFR vs Alpina. In all honesty, brand 'loyalty' aside, which is the more desirable? Fast jag vs exclusive brand?
One of the things I like about my XJR is knowing that the base model of the XJ range was still a big car, with a reasonable size engine and there's not an XJ in every car park. The nagging I guess I may get from an M5 (and let's be clear now I think the M5 is awesome car and extremely capable and probably much more of an engineering marvel than the old X350 XJR) is that most of the 5 series I see are poverty spec 2.0 diesel variants and it kind of takes the shine off the top end.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
drivin_me_nuts said:
In all honesty, brand 'loyalty' aside, which is the more desirable? Fast jag vs exclusive brand?
Brand is utterly irrelevant in my buying decisions and always will be. I buy what I like at the time, and I couldn't care less what the badge says, nor if other people like it or not, it's just about the product. "Exclusive" brand just says to me they don't sell as many as they would like to.drivin_me_nuts said:
I thinks the XFR exists purely because of cars like the AMG, RS and the M cars.
I don't know whether you know any of the history of Jaguar. But they have always made performance models, since they first introduced the Jaguar name.The first of the SuperCharged "R" cars came out in 94 when the X300 range was launched. incidentally they were not the brain child of some marketing man. It wasn't a case of some zeeb saying BMW make M cars we must compete with them. The first of the SC cars was an engineering lead project which initially the marketing dept. didn't perceive as having a audience. The XJR was more a child of the 3.8MOD Mk2 and 3.4 small saloon before it than a reaction to competition.
Different people will always have different tastes. The way the German car industry works is very different to the way the UK one does. In the UK people who want to make fast cars tend to do just that, they go off and make fast cars. In Germany this doesn't seem to happen. There it is the norm to go and find an existing car and then modify it. Alpina are just one such tuning company. They may make incredible cars but they still just look like sales boy toys. I guess we aren't likely to see things things the same way, which is probably healthy. Life would be so boring if everyone wanted the same thing. My experience with 7 series and S Class tells me I'd take the Jag every time. But then I still prefer my X300 to the newer X350 cars which this new model replaces.
a8hex said:
drivin_me_nuts said:
I thinks the XFR exists purely because of cars like the AMG, RS and the M cars.
I don't know whether you know any of the history of Jaguar. But they have always made performance models, since they first introduced the Jaguar name.The first of the SuperCharged "R" cars came out in 94 when the X300 range was launched. incidentally they were not the brain child of some marketing man. It wasn't a case of some zeeb saying BMW make M cars we must compete with them. The first of the SC cars was an engineering lead project which initially the marketing dept. didn't perceive as having a audience. The XJR was more a child of the 3.8MOD Mk2 and 3.4 small saloon before it than a reaction to competition.
Different people will always have different tastes. The way the German car industry works is very different to the way the UK one does. In the UK people who want to make fast cars tend to do just that, they go off and make fast cars. In Germany this doesn't seem to happen. There it is the norm to go and find an existing car and then modify it. Alpina are just one such tuning company. They may make incredible cars but they still just look like sales boy toys. I guess we aren't likely to see things things the same way, which is probably healthy. Life would be so boring if everyone wanted the same thing. My experience with 7 series and S Class tells me I'd take the Jag every time. But then I still prefer my X300 to the newer X350 cars which this new model replaces.
But as you write, the world would be a boring place if we all liked the same thing.
drivin_me_nuts said:
Do you see the 'R' brand in the same light as you see AMG and M cars - as an entity in their own right ( i.e. a brand) or as part of the standard model line up? I find your view of Alpina intersting. TBO I had never thought of them as sales boys toys, in fact quite the opposite actually as a conscious choice made to buy someting different and more elusive, a step away from 'Just another Jag, Merc or M...)
But as you write, the world would be a boring place if we all liked the same thing.
No, I don't see the "R" cars as being a brand in there own right, they are just models of Jaguars.But as you write, the world would be a boring place if we all liked the same thing.
My comment about about "looking like sales boy toys" was just that they look like the BMWs they are based on. I know that they are something different, but they don't look like it. It is a very subtle thing, people who are keen on cars may know the difference but to the vast majority of the population they are just yet another Beamer. But personally I couldn't tell whether I was looking at a genuine Alpina or whether some kid has stuck a body kit and badges on a standard car. While I'm not suggesting that an Alpina and an M car are necessarily in the same game, you must accept that most of the cars you see driving around with M badges on aren't real. I guess with the more recent ones there is more of a visual distinction, but for many of the earlier models there was little difference. Well except of course the original M3 was only available in LHD.
J888SXY said:
Forgive me if I'm being pedantic but Alpina are a car manufacturer in their own right, not a tuning company such as AMG, Hartge or AC Schnitzer.
Legally you are right. Alpina are registered as a manufactures in their own right. This was my point entirely. That is how things tend to work in the Germany. Alpina make up market Beamers. Similarly there are companies who are legally registered as manufactures who make up market Mercs and Porchs. But they are not a company who starts off with a clean sheet of paper and says "Right! I'm going to make a new car" are they, they take an existing car and then tune it to better suit their needs. In the UK that is not how small manufactures tend to work. We do have companies that do similar things, but they tend to do it older base cars and they tend to do it as a bespoke service and on a much smaller scale. Think of people like Eagle with their E-Types, or KWE with Series III XJs or XJs.a8hex said:
Alpina are just one such tuning company.
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