New XJ fatboy was right....

[RW774]

Hi all, I`ve been sceptical of the new XJ and have posted my usual grumbles with styling etc to me didn`t seem right. I had not seen one in the flesh till today. My local dealer has just recieved 2 models, albeit still with the software management gremlins.
Oh my, how wrong could I have been.It looks so, so much better in the flesh.The show room was busy and the car looked fanastic, absolutely fantastic. I`m now looking forward to drive a 275 Bhp 3.0 diesel,the factory have certainly have got this one right. I spoke at length to the dealer driver, who had achieved a whopping 51 mpg coming back from a clients house. In the pipeline is a 5.0 XJ supersport and a long wheelbase version with an extra 8 inches . A definite challenger Bentley at about half the price. Just what Lyons did with the SS back in the 30s.

[Cecil]

I saw a blue one in Brighton last Sunday, at the end of the London to Brighton Run, as you say it looks better in the flesh, and appears to be a fantastic place to be, but it just does not look right to me.

[a8hex]

I think this has been true of all of Ian Callum's Jaguars.
The new XK didn't look so good in pictures when it was announced, but looked far better in the metal.
The same was true for the XF as well.
The new XJ also looks far better in the metal.

As I get used to seeing the cars about more, then the pictures seem to work better too.

[tony wright]

RW774,

did the dealer give you any clue when they were going to release customers cars? Did he say anything about the electrical problem? As you can see eager to get my car as it should of been delivered last month.

[RW774]

Tony, only when the gremlins are fully rectified will they be released. They are very close to a full solution though. Apparently there are plans for an entry level replacement for the X type and a new compact sportscar that are well on the way. Not before time. Powered by a new generation 3 litre. Not the old V6 as the emissions cannot be reduced.

[Triple7]

I was wondering what engine the XE? roadster was going to get. I was hoping deep down that it would have a V8, but a new 3ltr unit would be awesome. So will it be a V6 or a straight 6. I hope the latter.

[SeanCW]

Having owned S type, XJ 308, XJ 350 and currently steel XKR Conv.

Driving the new XJ 3.0 D was one of the best automotive experiences that I have had. I drove an XF and 5.0 XKR at the same time, but the new XJ is such a huge move forward.

I feared for Jaguar over recent years, but if they can build an x type replacent and £40k sportscar with the same values as the XJ then we are enthusiasts of a marque to be truly proud of again.

I wish the billions that were available to bail out the banks and prevent economic meltdown had been available to retain ownership of british manufactures (I include MG Rover) we have the talent to turn round some of our fortunes.

Dont knock it, be proud of it.

[fatboy b]

RW774 said:

Hi all, I`ve been sceptical of the new XJ and have posted my usual grumbles with styling etc to me didn`t seem right. I had not seen one in the flesh till today. My local dealer has just recieved 2 models, albeit still with the software management gremlins.
Oh my, how wrong could I have been.It looks so, so much better in the flesh.The show room was busy and the car looked fanastic, absolutely fantastic. I`m now looking forward to drive a 275 Bhp 3.0 diesel,the factory have certainly have got this one right. I spoke at length to the dealer driver, who had achieved a whopping 51 mpg coming back from a clients house. In the pipeline is a 5.0 XJ supersport and a long wheelbase version with an extra 8 inches . A definite challenger Bentley at about half the price. Just what Lyons did with the SS back in the 30s.

[CarbonXKR]

I had a test drive last Wednesday in Inverness. Absolutely awesome inside and out and drove like a dream

[cardigankid]

SeanCW said:

I wish the billions that were available to bail out the banks and prevent economic meltdown had been available to retain ownership of british manufactures (I include MG Rover) we have the talent to turn round some of our fortunes.

I applaud the sentiment, but do we really? We have the talent to conceive, design and build the cars, yes, but as soon as a British(?) 'Entrepreneur' gets his hands on a company he asset strips it, throws what's left to the wolves, and moves to Monaco. Do you really want to see public money spent on that type of ownership? The reality is that Germans and Indians are prepared to invest and work for the long term to create a business, like Sir William Lyons did. Most Brits aren't, look at Richard Branson, Alan Sugar, Philip Green. They want the quick buck and the easy life, and those that are different, are still too small scale.

[fatboy b]

cardigankid said:

SeanCW said:

I wish the billions that were available to bail out the banks and prevent economic meltdown had been available to retain ownership of british manufactures (I include MG Rover) we have the talent to turn round some of our fortunes.

I applaud the sentiment, but do we really? We have the talent to conceive, design and build the cars, yes, but as soon as a British(?) 'Entrepreneur' gets his hands on a company he asset strips it, throws what's left to the wolves, and moves to Monaco. Do you really want to see public money spent on that type of ownership? The reality is that Germans and Indians are prepared to invest and work for the long term to create a business, like Sir William Lyons did. Most Brits aren't, look at Richard Branson, Alan Sugar, Philip Green. They want the quick buck and the easy life, and those that are different, are still too small scale.

It's been happening for years too.

[RW774]

fatboy b said:

cardigankid said:

SeanCW said:

I wish the billions that were available to bail out the banks and prevent economic meltdown had been available to retain ownership of british manufactures (I include MG Rover) we have the talent to turn round some of our fortunes.

I applaud the sentiment, but do we really? We have the talent to conceive, design and build the cars, yes, but as soon as a British(?) 'Entrepreneur' gets his hands on a company he asset strips it, throws what's left to the wolves, and moves to Monaco. Do you really want to see public money spent on that type of ownership? The reality is that Germans and Indians are prepared to invest and work for the long term to create a business, like Sir William Lyons did. Most Brits aren't, look at Richard Branson, Alan Sugar, Philip Green. They want the quick buck and the easy life, and those that are different, are still too small scale.

It's been happening for years too.

I think you will find there are a lack of genuine investors who are prepared to roll there sleeves up.I`ve been in the same business for years. The only investors I`ve met ( with very few exceptions) just want the biggest slice, for the least input. Many treat my type of business as an indulgence.A kind of adult playground. Perhaps the term `adventure capitalist` would be an apt description.`I speak from experience here.
Lyons total lack of re-investment helped push the company into British Motor holdings in the 60s, which became British Leyland.Jaguar could easily have been up there with Ferrari when it mattered,but he was far too short sighted when it came to money

[a8hex]

To be fair to Sir William, at least he passed his parsimoniousness on to his customers. He had an uncanny ability to build cars to a price and then sold them for a fraction of what the competition were charging.
These days the "normal" behaviour is to build things as cheaply as possible and sell them as expensively as possible.
Many of Jaguar's past successes were, I feel, due to it being a small company. A tiny group of very talented people working well together. There is no guarantee that proper re-investment would have served the companies needs.

[RW774]

For me the prime example is XJ13, designed mostly by people in there spare time because Lyons would not fund it. Chapman had a super team of guys behind him. He never paid overtime and expected they work for free.I think a certain love of the product can help the cause, but ask Dewis what he thought of the old man. His opinion is he was a tight as a ducks arse and thats` water tight.

[a8hex]

RW774 said:

For me the prime example is XJ13, designed mostly by people in there spare time because Lyons would not fund it. Chapman had a super team of guys behind him. He never paid overtime and expected they work for free.I think a certain love of the product can help the cause, but ask Dewis what he thought of the old man. His opinion is he was a tight as a ducks arse and thats` water tight.

Agreed
There are some lovely stories of senior people joining the company, putting in a req for a chair and having it turned down, then spending their time hunting around the company to find a chair with no-ones arse currently on it.

But I still don't think he was in it for the quick buck.

That's not saying he was perfect.

[a8hex]

On this subject, you might enjoy the article on E2A in the new Octane.

[cardigankid]

RW774 said:

I think a certain love of the product can help the cause, but ask Dewis what he thought of the old man. His opinion is he was a tight as a ducks arse and thats` water tight.

He must have invested at some point to get the business to the point it was at in the 50's and early 60's, from making sidecars in the 20's. What about the Brown's Lane factory, that can't have been cheap? Then again he had seen a serious recession and two world wars so may have been familiar with issues of domestic economy that some of us are only now rediscovering.

[a8hex]

It is not that there was no investment, just the minimum possible. For example the production line was 2nd hand. The tooling used to make the XK engines was ex war dept.

[RW774]

Lyons made a great deal of money during wartime military production, let`s make no bones about it. He was an extremely good businessman, who used old stock from other producers at minimal cost, in his own vehicle asembly lines pre and post pre war.He saw the greatest market being the states, so that was where he aimed and suceeded .However, he was still a `tite` bd