Automatic Transmission fluid change
Discussion
I'm doing a full service of my 1997 XJ8 3.2, and have just seen the post http://www.pistonheads.com/xforums/topic.asp?h=0&a... My car has done 106k (about 40k in the 5years or so that I have had it), and I doubt the transmission oil has ever been changed (though maybe it was when a recon engine was fitted at about 50k - before I bought the car).
Looking in my manual (JTIS disc), it seems easy enough to change the Transmission fluid and filter (and clean those magnets) ... until it says that when refilling I need to connect a PDU unit to interrogate the oil temperature sensor.
Is this really necessary? It only seems to want to check the temperature is less than 30C at the start, and stays below 50C when the engine is run.
If it is necessary, do I need the Jag PDU, or is there a chance that my OBDII reader can get this info? The manual shows a circular 16-way connector socket on the transmission housing, but the text says connect the PDU to the vehicle diagnostic socket (presumably the usual OBDII one).
I've seen some posts elsewhere that suggest problems have arisen after changing the fluid, and some service agents have refused to do it.
Can anyone add their advice/knowledge?
Thanks
John
Looking in my manual (JTIS disc), it seems easy enough to change the Transmission fluid and filter (and clean those magnets) ... until it says that when refilling I need to connect a PDU unit to interrogate the oil temperature sensor.
Is this really necessary? It only seems to want to check the temperature is less than 30C at the start, and stays below 50C when the engine is run.
If it is necessary, do I need the Jag PDU, or is there a chance that my OBDII reader can get this info? The manual shows a circular 16-way connector socket on the transmission housing, but the text says connect the PDU to the vehicle diagnostic socket (presumably the usual OBDII one).
I've seen some posts elsewhere that suggest problems have arisen after changing the fluid, and some service agents have refused to do it.
Can anyone add their advice/knowledge?
Thanks
John
As you stated it's not a difficult job to replace the fluid and filter. You can use any digital thermometer with remote sensor, atttached to the transmission pan, to keep the temperature in range.
I would not attempt this without access to a vehicle lift, as pumping in the fluid would be a headache. You must keep everything really clean to prevent contaminating the system, the reasoning behind Jaguar not providing a dipstick or top up point.
Use only the specified Esso fluid, and keep in mind you will only replace around 60% (6 litres) of the fluid as the remainder will remain in the torque converter.
I would not attempt this without access to a vehicle lift, as pumping in the fluid would be a headache. You must keep everything really clean to prevent contaminating the system, the reasoning behind Jaguar not providing a dipstick or top up point.
Use only the specified Esso fluid, and keep in mind you will only replace around 60% (6 litres) of the fluid as the remainder will remain in the torque converter.
You'll have up to 5 mins untill the oil reaches the maximum fill temperature, and of course you can get most of it in before the clock starts as an initial fill without the engine running so your only difficulty will be getting the last two or three litres in quickly whilst the engine is running and the 'box being cycled between D N R.
Gravity is not enough, you'll need some sort of pump that'll flow somthing like two or more litres a minuite. I modified an old washing machine waste water pump and mounted it on a board with an on/off switch to give me some control over pumping speed. It actually took less two minuites to fill the last three litres or so. I'd put the oil in the fridge for a couple of hours before hand to chill it and buy a bit more time too which maybe helped.
It's best to leave the 'box overnight to cool right down again once you've done and recheck the level again in the morning.
You'll need a T27 Torx bit to fit the sump bolts, which is an unusual size Don't be tempted to use a T25 which'll fit as the bolts are tight and fragile and tend to sieze so undo with care and don't be tempted to just force them undone. I'd loosen every single one slightly and nip them up again and make absolutely sure the filler/level check plug is not siezied and you've got the right length of socket as access is tight too before I drained the oil.
Gravity is not enough, you'll need some sort of pump that'll flow somthing like two or more litres a minuite. I modified an old washing machine waste water pump and mounted it on a board with an on/off switch to give me some control over pumping speed. It actually took less two minuites to fill the last three litres or so. I'd put the oil in the fridge for a couple of hours before hand to chill it and buy a bit more time too which maybe helped.
It's best to leave the 'box overnight to cool right down again once you've done and recheck the level again in the morning.
You'll need a T27 Torx bit to fit the sump bolts, which is an unusual size Don't be tempted to use a T25 which'll fit as the bolts are tight and fragile and tend to sieze so undo with care and don't be tempted to just force them undone. I'd loosen every single one slightly and nip them up again and make absolutely sure the filler/level check plug is not siezied and you've got the right length of socket as access is tight too before I drained the oil.
Thank you for your very helpful comments. If I do change the oil myself I'll need to get the oil/filter etc, and I do happen to have saved an old washing machine pump that I could use. I'm not sure when I'll get on with it, but I am grateful for your help.
I know this is off topic, but I was under the car yesterday trying to find where the noise from my rear suspension was coming from (before I change the differential oil too!). I had previously found some small amount of play in the UJ's and possibly in the diff bearings (I've not got a dial gauge, so I was trying to feel movement with my fingers between the flange and diff casing - I think it is less than the 0.5mm JTIS allows). Overall there might be about 2mm of play in the axle assembly when rocking the road wheels top-to bottom (none side to side). Anyway, I greased up the UJs and maybe the noise was a bit less - but it is still there. The local Jag main-dealer suggested (on a phone diagnosis) that some play was inevitable, and suggested the "rattling" over minor bumps (rather than "knocking" over large bumps) was probably the shock absorber bushes. However, when I dropped the shocks the bushes looked ok, if anything there was play between the bushes and their mounting bolts. Yet, given that these bolts are reasonably torqued up, is wear in the bolt shafts likely to allow movement and cause that rattling? or should I just get on and change the UJs?
Any thoughts?
I know this is off topic, but I was under the car yesterday trying to find where the noise from my rear suspension was coming from (before I change the differential oil too!). I had previously found some small amount of play in the UJ's and possibly in the diff bearings (I've not got a dial gauge, so I was trying to feel movement with my fingers between the flange and diff casing - I think it is less than the 0.5mm JTIS allows). Overall there might be about 2mm of play in the axle assembly when rocking the road wheels top-to bottom (none side to side). Anyway, I greased up the UJs and maybe the noise was a bit less - but it is still there. The local Jag main-dealer suggested (on a phone diagnosis) that some play was inevitable, and suggested the "rattling" over minor bumps (rather than "knocking" over large bumps) was probably the shock absorber bushes. However, when I dropped the shocks the bushes looked ok, if anything there was play between the bushes and their mounting bolts. Yet, given that these bolts are reasonably torqued up, is wear in the bolt shafts likely to allow movement and cause that rattling? or should I just get on and change the UJs?
Any thoughts?
The term "damper bush" is actuallly somewhat of a misnomer as although they look like a standard metal/rubber/metal bush, they are acutally a cunningly disguised spherical bearing protected by a rubber gaiter on each end filled with grease.
The play when they're worn can be both radial and axial so it's worth getting a pry bar in there to test them....
...and yes, guess what I spent last weekend changing...?
The play when they're worn can be both radial and axial so it's worth getting a pry bar in there to test them....
...and yes, guess what I spent last weekend changing...?
Hi Zulu
So I should be looking for play along the line of the bolt?
And how did you change the bushes/bearings? Did you remove the shock absorber, or did you try (as I saw someone else had) just disconnecting the lower bolt and jacking up the axle so the bush was accessible from under the axle, and could be pressed out in situ using suitable size sockets and a bolt through the middle to make the press? I was going to try that until I decided there was no radial play in the bushes!
John
So I should be looking for play along the line of the bolt?
And how did you change the bushes/bearings? Did you remove the shock absorber, or did you try (as I saw someone else had) just disconnecting the lower bolt and jacking up the axle so the bush was accessible from under the axle, and could be pressed out in situ using suitable size sockets and a bolt through the middle to make the press? I was going to try that until I decided there was no radial play in the bushes!
John
This is the posting that I made on the Jaguar Forum, with a clarification to answer your question:
The bush can be changed with the damper in situ, the procedure was as follows:
Take new bush, lightly coat outer with molybdenum grease and place in freezer.
Remove road wheel
Disconnect ABS sensor, cut tie-wraps and tie the cable back out of the way
Unbolt calliper and tie up out the way
Mark rotational position of pivot bolt in upright (it sets the camber so needs to go back at exactly same position) and remove
Tie upright up and back out of the way
Remove nut from lower damper bush securing bolt
Apply spring compressors and start to wind them up
At point where the load is removed from the damper lower bolt; remove it.
Continue winding up spring compressors until damper lower end starts to appear through orifice in wishbone. (Jacking up one corner alone is insufficient - you'll need spring compressors)
At this point I made up a puller using some aluminium turned on lathe to produce a pusher and a receptacle, drawn through using a length of M12 high tensile studding. I put a small thrust bearing under the nut head to aid rotation in the presence of axial forces.
(Had I been able to obtain M14 high tensile studding I would have used that in preference to M12, but because I couldn’t I turned up a 14mm o/d 12mm i/d tube about an inch long to put inside the old bush so that everything remained concentric)
The torque needed to start the puller working was probably less than 100lbft so not at all excessive.
Once the old bush was removed I thoroughly cleaned up the inside of the damper ‘tube’ using a Dremel fitted with a light wet’n’dry tube (sorry don’t know correct name)
I then very gently warmed up the lower damper tube using a gas torch – but being very careful not to cook the damper by heating from bottom only – probably took it to 150C max.
I then retrieved the new bush from the freezer, and it slid neatly into the hole (differential expansion is a wonderful concept) requiring only a gently pull from the puller to get it to the correct axial position.
Everything else was, in best Haynes tradition, a reversal of the removal procedure…..
The bush can be changed with the damper in situ, the procedure was as follows:
Take new bush, lightly coat outer with molybdenum grease and place in freezer.
Remove road wheel
Disconnect ABS sensor, cut tie-wraps and tie the cable back out of the way
Unbolt calliper and tie up out the way
Mark rotational position of pivot bolt in upright (it sets the camber so needs to go back at exactly same position) and remove
Tie upright up and back out of the way
Remove nut from lower damper bush securing bolt
Apply spring compressors and start to wind them up
At point where the load is removed from the damper lower bolt; remove it.
Continue winding up spring compressors until damper lower end starts to appear through orifice in wishbone. (Jacking up one corner alone is insufficient - you'll need spring compressors)
At this point I made up a puller using some aluminium turned on lathe to produce a pusher and a receptacle, drawn through using a length of M12 high tensile studding. I put a small thrust bearing under the nut head to aid rotation in the presence of axial forces.
(Had I been able to obtain M14 high tensile studding I would have used that in preference to M12, but because I couldn’t I turned up a 14mm o/d 12mm i/d tube about an inch long to put inside the old bush so that everything remained concentric)
The torque needed to start the puller working was probably less than 100lbft so not at all excessive.
Once the old bush was removed I thoroughly cleaned up the inside of the damper ‘tube’ using a Dremel fitted with a light wet’n’dry tube (sorry don’t know correct name)
I then very gently warmed up the lower damper tube using a gas torch – but being very careful not to cook the damper by heating from bottom only – probably took it to 150C max.
I then retrieved the new bush from the freezer, and it slid neatly into the hole (differential expansion is a wonderful concept) requiring only a gently pull from the puller to get it to the correct axial position.
Everything else was, in best Haynes tradition, a reversal of the removal procedure…..
Thanks again for the very useful info - this time on your DIY puller and chilling the new bushes.
Otherwise, comparing your approach to that from another post I saw somewhere, you compressed up the shock absorber and dropped the axle at the pivot bolt to access the bush above the axle. The other chap left the pivot bolt in place and jacked the axle up so that the shock absorber bush dropped down and could be accessed below the axle.
This seemed to be working out for me too, but I didn't actually try pressing out the bushes as they seemed OK (but following your last response I need to check axial movement).
I would like to avoid moving the pivot pins if possible. I had 4 wheel geometry checked and adjusted very recently (after replacing pivot pins and front lower ball joints) so would rather not remove the pins again. Even when I put them back EXACTLY on my marks, the geometry always seems to have changed somewhere!
Otherwise, comparing your approach to that from another post I saw somewhere, you compressed up the shock absorber and dropped the axle at the pivot bolt to access the bush above the axle. The other chap left the pivot bolt in place and jacked the axle up so that the shock absorber bush dropped down and could be accessed below the axle.
This seemed to be working out for me too, but I didn't actually try pressing out the bushes as they seemed OK (but following your last response I need to check axial movement).
I would like to avoid moving the pivot pins if possible. I had 4 wheel geometry checked and adjusted very recently (after replacing pivot pins and front lower ball joints) so would rather not remove the pins again. Even when I put them back EXACTLY on my marks, the geometry always seems to have changed somewhere!
Sorry, maybe my wording isn't clear: I did exactly what you're describing: I used the spring compressors to compress the spring and hence lift the wishbone, but not the damper (they're not co-axial) so that the lower end of the damper appeared through (i.e. underneath) the wishbone.
The reason for undoing the pivot bolt is to get sufficient space around the spring in order to fit the compressors. Trying to do it with the upright in situ would be a bit of a squeeze.
The reason for undoing the pivot bolt is to get sufficient space around the spring in order to fit the compressors. Trying to do it with the upright in situ would be a bit of a squeeze.
Sorry, I did misunderstand. Thanks for the clarification. However, when checking the bushes I managed to compress the spring without taking out the pivot pin.
I can't update on progress yet as I had to go with my daughter to choose a wedding dress on Saturday, and Sunday the wife had me painting the windows. The car is lower priority - it goes ok, just rattles a bit!
Thanks
John
I can't update on progress yet as I had to go with my daughter to choose a wedding dress on Saturday, and Sunday the wife had me painting the windows. The car is lower priority - it goes ok, just rattles a bit!
Thanks
John
There is a 8mm Alen drain plug on the base of the sump and 8mm Alen filler plug on the right hand side of the gearbox towards the rear just above the sump pan.
Before you remove either of the two plugs just crack them off to make sure they are not siezed. If you are taking the sump off you'll need an T27 Torx bit - again check all the Torx bolts are free before you drain any fluid.
Before you remove either of the two plugs just crack them off to make sure they are not siezed. If you are taking the sump off you'll need an T27 Torx bit - again check all the Torx bolts are free before you drain any fluid.
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