lupo engine conversion

[Baz5392]

hi everybody, i have been think of dropping a 1.6 16v lump in my lupo from a golf. this idea has been bugging me for about 2 weeks now and theres a few questions that i could do with answering before i start doing this:

- does the wiring need changing from the standard lupo 1.4s wiring to the golfs?

- does the 1.4s gearbox fit straight on the 1.6 lump?

- does the engine & gearbox mounts all need changing?

- and is the 1.6 16v golf engine the same engine as the gti apart from the internals, throttle body, exhaust manifold ect? as the golf engine is 100bhp and the gti is 125bhp i think.

any help with these questions would be great and will put my mind at risk, and if theres anything else that needs to be considered dont be scared to tell me
thanks

[Kevin VRs]

I would suggest selling your Lupo and buying a GTi instead. Insurance will likely be a tad excessive if you modify the car. Also would you also look into the brakes, are the GTi the same or uprated? Overall I would suggest it is easier and cheaper to change the car rather than change bits of the car. Also you could well have a problem when you come to sell the modified car.

[JAHetfield]

If it's any help, a 1.4 Golf box fits a 1.6 Golf. I'd imagine the Lupo uses a different box though.

[sinizter]

All that for 125bhp more ?

Cheaper long term to sell and buy what you want. Insurance costs for a modified to power 25% or more than standard could be painful.

[Baz5392]

only problem is that the lupo gti cost around 3000 quid for a decent one, my lupo is worth about 1000-1200 atm, and engine convertion would cost about a grand, therefore would save on the inital cost of the car

[sinizter]

Baz5392 said:

only problem is that the lupo gti cost around 3000 quid for a decent one, my lupo is worth about 1000-1200 atm, and engine convertion would cost about a grand, therefore would save on the inital cost of the car

Fair point. But you should really look at insurance costs, and proceed if you are still happy.

The additional premium for having a modified car with about 25% more power than when it started will not go down. And may even mean you can't use some of the cheaper insurers.

[aka_kerrly]

The insurance isn't always that bad. In some cases it can be cheaper to do an engine conversion if the insurance company looks at which group the donor car is in.

Eg. I have a golf GTI 16v insurance group 15 and put the engine from a 2.0 16v passat which is group 13, I SAVED money and gained 20hp.

If you consider a Lupo GTI is insurance group 22 and a mk4 Golf 1.6 16v is group 13 you can see why my point is relevant.

OP get on the phone to your insurer and some specialist ones, Brentacre/Adrian Flux/performance direct are usually good with modified VWs

In terms of what needs to be changed you will need the entire engine + wiring loom and ECU at a minimum. Fortunately your fuse box will allow you to plug the loom straight in without having to faff about and a 1.4 gearbox can be used, although the 6 speed option is preferred.

Since the 1.6 was available in a lupo the engine mounts/exhaust will be available ( i believe a lupo GTI has a 4 branch manifold as standard but a aftermarket one will probably work out better for you)

You may also need to obtain the keys, ignition barrel and halo/transponder from the donor car or opt to have the immobiliser deleted, although this may cause problems with insurance.

For what it's worth though, people have had better results tuning the 1.4 16v AFH to over 120hp for not a lot of money. What engine is in your lupo at present i suspect its a 1.4 8valve?

[wurumal]

The problem here is that I don't think you're aiming high enough. Sure, 125HP would be nice, but if you're going to the trouble, twin 24V V6's would surely be better?

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2970226-...

[aka_kerrly]

Haha that really is pushing the boat out a bit.

The guy who built that lupo w12 has quite the reputation for his VWs. He has/had a 4 motion v6 mk2 golf, a 20VT Rallye, a 2.0TSFI beetle and various a V6 4motion with/without turbo corrados.

Another alternative is a 1.8 20vt conversion and also people going down the Eaton charger route.

[Baz5392]

its the 1.4 16v 73bhp 92lbs/ft, and the reason why im not planning to put a rocket up its arse is because im 19, insurnace would be way too high for me.

[aka_kerrly]

oh so you have a 16v already, in which case i believe you are only a inlet manifold + throttle body & ECU away from 100hp.

There are plenty of rotten 1.4 16v polos around which you could steel parts from.

[missing the VR6]

Baz5392 said:

only problem is that the lupo gti cost around 3000 quid for a decent one, my lupo is worth about 1000-1200 atm, and engine convertion would cost about a grand, therefore would save on the inital cost of the car

Don't forget to budget for more than just the engine conversion, uprated brakes, suspension etc. Could easily see you at the same money as the Lupo GTI which will be a better car I'd imagine.

[Nick3point2]

missing the VR6 said:

Baz5392 said:

only problem is that the lupo gti cost around 3000 quid for a decent one, my lupo is worth about 1000-1200 atm, and engine convertion would cost about a grand, therefore would save on the inital cost of the car

Don't forget to budget for more than just the engine conversion, uprated brakes, suspension etc. Could easily see you at the same money as the Lupo GTI which will be a better car I'd imagine.

And don't forget that if you go to sell the car at some point it will be a heavily modified car, which will sell for less (most likely) than a standard GTI.

[Dr G]

...and far less work for a tried and tested package with solid residual values and a cult following.

The engine conversion will cost you a grand, you'll spend the same again getting the rest of the car up to GTI spec, you'll pay modified car premiums and it'll be a pig to sell on.

Whilst the conversion would probably be fun (if you like getting your hands dirty) I can't help but thinking that the GTI is a better value proposition (and an even better base to further modify if you wanted to later).

[aka_kerrly]

Nick3point2 said:

And don't forget that if you go to sell the car at some point it will be a heavily modified car, which will sell for less (most likely) than a standard GTI.

I don't believe this concept that every modified car becomes worth less than a standard model. All you are doing is perhaps limiting the number of potential buyers but those who are interested will likely pay more to have a car with modifications as it will save money in the long run.

If anything if you are building a 20vt or similar you are better off starting with the basic model as it seems pointless paying the premium for the top spec model only to bin half the components that make it the top spec in a GTI case the engine + Box.

Edited by aka_kerrly on Thursday 8th December 12:51

[GreatGranny]

Lupo GTI prices are mad at the moment.

You spend over £3k for an average one when a good Polo GTI is a grand less!

The Polo will be a little more to insure and run but its a more grown up car.

Yes probably not as fast and its not looked on the same in the VW scene as the Lupo but who cares when you've saved all that money over, what is a 1.4S with a GTI engine in it.

[MJK 24]

GreatGranny said:

Lupo GTI prices are mad at the moment.

You spend over £3k for an average one when a good Polo GTI is a grand less!

The Polo will be a little more to insure and run but its a more grown up car.

Yes probably not as fast and its not looked on the same in the VW scene as the Lupo but who cares when you've saved all that money over, what is a 1.4S with a GTI engine in it.

Car enthusiasts rarely apply logic to their purchases. People will buy with their heart over their head. I have to say that given the choice, I'd have a Lupo GTI over a Polo GTI all day long.