VAG diesel engines....please explain to me?
Discussion
Hi,
Contemplating a diesel Touran to ferry the family around in, need a diesel as I have a self funded 70 a day commute. Now, I'm slightly confused with the engine options and what they mean!
I used to have an Audi A4 (B5) 1.9Tdi 110 which was a lovely drive if not somewhat uninspiring. The wife had a Mk3 Golf 1.9Tdi which was like a bloody tank and just kept going despite lots of abuse!
So when I started looking I was drawn to the 1.9Tdi unit as a tried and tested lump, but have now noticed the letters 'PD' popping up a lot. What does this mean along with mention of 'common rail' etc? Can someone explain to an idiot for me please?!
And how do the 2.0Tdi units match up? I'm drawn to the 140 & possibly the 170 units for obvious reasons
, but is it a good lump with regards reliability?
And finally, DSG, does it work well with the diesel. I'd associated with sporty cars such as the Gti and 'R' generation of VWs. Is it a good bit of kit for daily use?
Thanks in advance
Contemplating a diesel Touran to ferry the family around in, need a diesel as I have a self funded 70 a day commute. Now, I'm slightly confused with the engine options and what they mean!
I used to have an Audi A4 (B5) 1.9Tdi 110 which was a lovely drive if not somewhat uninspiring. The wife had a Mk3 Golf 1.9Tdi which was like a bloody tank and just kept going despite lots of abuse!
So when I started looking I was drawn to the 1.9Tdi unit as a tried and tested lump, but have now noticed the letters 'PD' popping up a lot. What does this mean along with mention of 'common rail' etc? Can someone explain to an idiot for me please?!
And how do the 2.0Tdi units match up? I'm drawn to the 140 & possibly the 170 units for obvious reasons
, but is it a good lump with regards reliability?And finally, DSG, does it work well with the diesel. I'd associated with sporty cars such as the Gti and 'R' generation of VWs. Is it a good bit of kit for daily use?
Thanks in advance
My knowledge is fairly limited, but....
PD is the unit injector engine, fixed timing makes it noisy.
Common rail engines are variable timing, so much quieter. Being able to inject multiple times at multiple timing interval means no piston knock.
The common rail engines drive fantastically, they really are brilliant and have a power curve like a turbo petrol, albeit they don't rev as high as a petrol.
But, I'm sceptical about their reliability. I chose a 1.9 PD over a common rail because the PD is widely regarded as being bullet proof.
I'd lease a common rail, but buy a PD.
PD is the unit injector engine, fixed timing makes it noisy.
Common rail engines are variable timing, so much quieter. Being able to inject multiple times at multiple timing interval means no piston knock.
The common rail engines drive fantastically, they really are brilliant and have a power curve like a turbo petrol, albeit they don't rev as high as a petrol.
But, I'm sceptical about their reliability. I chose a 1.9 PD over a common rail because the PD is widely regarded as being bullet proof.
I'd lease a common rail, but buy a PD.
Your car (110) will be a pre PD (guess around X reg?) engine. Commonly called "VE" - They have one fuel pump and separate injectors. The PD stands for Pump Duse and kind of means "shower pump" in German. Each injector is its own fuel pump (cam driven) so there is no separate fuel pump in the engine bay (bar a cam driven vacuum/fuel combined on the side of the engine)
PD is more refined than VE, not but as refined as the much newer common rail (CR) 2 litre engines, say from 57/08 plate onwards. They also tuned well. Mine's now pushing 275bhp and used as a daily driver / PH Hooner
If you need to know anything more specific let me know. I stripped down an overheated blown PD engine just to learn how the hell they work - all very interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr6ePFVawGA
The above link kind of shows how the cam drives each injector. Not the best video.
PD is more refined than VE, not but as refined as the much newer common rail (CR) 2 litre engines, say from 57/08 plate onwards. They also tuned well. Mine's now pushing 275bhp and used as a daily driver / PH Hooner
If you need to know anything more specific let me know. I stripped down an overheated blown PD engine just to learn how the hell they work - all very interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr6ePFVawGA
The above link kind of shows how the cam drives each injector. Not the best video.
Nice one, thanks gents - makes sense. My A4 was actually a 1996 A4! (Engine code AHN I think).
So generally if I'm buying, a 1.9 is a better bet as the common rail 2.0's cause a few probs?
Whats the most powerful 1.9 for the Touran, highest I've found was a 130. 110's and 90's seem common, although I think the 90 might be a bit tiresome.
Thanks again, much appreciated!
ETA - Still very drawn to the common rail 140's and 170's though!
So generally if I'm buying, a 1.9 is a better bet as the common rail 2.0's cause a few probs?
Whats the most powerful 1.9 for the Touran, highest I've found was a 130. 110's and 90's seem common, although I think the 90 might be a bit tiresome.
Thanks again, much appreciated!
ETA - Still very drawn to the common rail 140's and 170's though!
Edited by wiliferus on Friday 13th January 19:44
PD injection system explained:
http://www.myarchive.us/richc/VW_TDI_with_PumpeDus...
Would love to see something similar for the CR system, if anyone knows of one
http://www.myarchive.us/richc/VW_TDI_with_PumpeDus...
Would love to see something similar for the CR system, if anyone knows of one
150 is the most powerful PD fitted in the Golf GT TDI and Seat Leon. The Seat Ibiza Cupra got the most powerful one ever - PD160.
Essentially they were all the same "engine" just with different bolt on bits like front mounted IC, better turbo etc. This is why mine is 275bhp as I basically have the same "engine" but have fettled with enough of the bolt on bits to increase fuelling and boost.
Just ensure on any PD you look at the 60,000 mile / 4 year cambelt change intervals have been stuck to.
Essentially they were all the same "engine" just with different bolt on bits like front mounted IC, better turbo etc. This is why mine is 275bhp as I basically have the same "engine" but have fettled with enough of the bolt on bits to increase fuelling and boost.
Just ensure on any PD you look at the 60,000 mile / 4 year cambelt change intervals have been stuck to.
Nick1point9 said:
^^^^^ I spoke to VW yesterday, on later engines the interval is 95000 miles!
I have heard people batting about figures of 80,000 miles / 5 years on the PD engines, but I am 99% sure that is utter tosh and VAG advise to stick to 60k/4 years. Not sure on the 2 litres - Dad's got the 170hp CR engine in his Audi TT so maybe I should ask him when his first cambelt is due.TDIfurby said:
I have heard people batting about figures of 80,000 miles / 5 years on the PD engines, but I am 99% sure that is utter tosh and VAG advise to stick to 60k/4 years. Not sure on the 2 litres - Dad's got the 170hp CR engine in his Audi TT so maybe I should ask him when his first cambelt is due.
Here are the intervals for the VW Scirocco with the CR Diesel engine so I would assume Audi would be similar Not sure on the 2 litres - Dad's got the 170hp CR engine in his Audi TT so maybe I should ask him when his first cambelt is due.Scirocco Diesels 2.0ltr TDi
- Engine codes : CBBB, CBDB - (---> 2009) 180,000Km (120,000 miles)
- Engine codes : CBBB, CBDB, CFHB, CHFC, CFGB - (2010 --->) 210,000Km (140,000 miles)
Regarding cam belts
Audi released a memo around 2008/9 ish.
Says ALL cam belts should be 75,000 miles or 5 years. (with is funny because the very same engines are 4 years in the VW'S) With hand full of exeptions including old RS6 and V8 S8.
Before the memo the intervals were 80k on most engines and 60k on some and a stupid 120k on some 1.8T's. leaving a 1.8T cam belt til 120k will only result in failure.
Audi released a memo around 2008/9 ish.
Says ALL cam belts should be 75,000 miles or 5 years. (with is funny because the very same engines are 4 years in the VW'S) With hand full of exeptions including old RS6 and V8 S8.
Before the memo the intervals were 80k on most engines and 60k on some and a stupid 120k on some 1.8T's. leaving a 1.8T cam belt til 120k will only result in failure.
TDIfurby said:
150 is the most powerful PD fitted in the Golf GT TDI and Seat Leon. The Seat Ibiza Cupra got the most powerful one ever - PD160.
)
Schurly you're mishtaken!! The 2005> Golf 2.0TDI GT was fitted with the 170PS PD engine. Also fitted to some Seats and all subject to the recent injector recall.)
Tame Technician said:
Regarding cam belts
Audi released a memo around 2008/9 ish.
Says ALL cam belts should be 75,000 miles or 5 years. (with is funny because the very same engines are 4 years in the VW'S) With hand full of exeptions including old RS6 and V8 S8.
Before the memo the intervals were 80k on most engines and 60k on some and a stupid 120k on some 1.8T's. leaving a 1.8T cam belt til 120k will only result in failure.
Tame Tech, just the man! As our resident beard expert, if it was your hard earned money, would you go for the 1.9 PD or the newer 2.0?Audi released a memo around 2008/9 ish.
Says ALL cam belts should be 75,000 miles or 5 years. (with is funny because the very same engines are 4 years in the VW'S) With hand full of exeptions including old RS6 and V8 S8.
Before the memo the intervals were 80k on most engines and 60k on some and a stupid 120k on some 1.8T's. leaving a 1.8T cam belt til 120k will only result in failure.
computamedic said:
Schurly you're mishtaken!! The 2005> Golf 2.0TDI GT was fitted with the 170PS PD engine. Also fitted to some Seats and all subject to the recent injector recall.
I was referring to the 1.9 engines only. I was ignoring later 2 litres as O.P appeared interested in a 1.9.Not sure whether the PD ever got into 170 form. I know there were plenty in 140 form, but I thought 170 came in with the swap to common rail, unless there was a bit of crossover?
So, "most powerful 1.9 PD was the seat ibiza cupra"
wiliferus said:
Tame Tech, just the man! As our resident beard expert, if it was your hard earned money, would you go for the 1.9 PD or the newer 2.0?
My opinion and definatly not that of VAG2.0 Common rail unit is good.
1.9 PD engine is rough and unrefined, but largly bullet proof and very good on fuel
2.0 PD is crap in every way.
So have 100,000 other people.
10,000 them have had problems
90,000 of them, love their car and thinks its the best they ever owned.
As a technician I only see them when they are broken, and my advise is based on the ones I see broken more often, doesnt mean you should worry, panic or be paranoid.
Do you like your Car?? if yes, that all you need to know, enjoy it.
10,000 them have had problems
90,000 of them, love their car and thinks its the best they ever owned.
As a technician I only see them when they are broken, and my advise is based on the ones I see broken more often, doesnt mean you should worry, panic or be paranoid.
Do you like your Car?? if yes, that all you need to know, enjoy it.
TDIfurby said:
Not sure whether the PD ever got into 170 form. I know there were plenty in 140 form, but I thought 170 came in with the swap to common rail, unless there was a bit of crossover?
So, "most powerful 1.9 PD was the seat ibiza cupra"
Audi did do 2.0 PD TDi's with 170bhp (pretty sure VW did to). We (Audi) are currently replacing the injectors for free on all of them.So, "most powerful 1.9 PD was the seat ibiza cupra"
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