Change clutch and flywheel at the same time?
Discussion
Is there a concensus on whether you should change the flywheel if changing the clutch? I get the fact that it's a "while the gearbox is out..." thing, so saving the labour of doing the flywheel later, but is there a mechanical reason why you shouldn't mate a new clutch to an old flywheel?
Is there any official VAG/Audi guidance on it?
My local Audi dealer says to just change the clutch, leave the flywheel as is, but that seems contrary to what I had thought (and I'd have thought the dealer would be encouraging me to change the flywheel as well!).
It's a 2010 Audi S4, so a dual mass flywheel.
(ps. if anyone knows the trade/cost price of the clutch and DMF for my car (both LUK I think), it would be incredibly helpful - probably best to email me. Audi quote (I think) roughly £800 for the DMF, but you can get it off ECP for £440 incl VAT (LUK again, as per OEM). Many thanks).
Is there any official VAG/Audi guidance on it?
My local Audi dealer says to just change the clutch, leave the flywheel as is, but that seems contrary to what I had thought (and I'd have thought the dealer would be encouraging me to change the flywheel as well!).
It's a 2010 Audi S4, so a dual mass flywheel.
(ps. if anyone knows the trade/cost price of the clutch and DMF for my car (both LUK I think), it would be incredibly helpful - probably best to email me. Audi quote (I think) roughly £800 for the DMF, but you can get it off ECP for £440 incl VAT (LUK again, as per OEM). Many thanks).
Unless the flywheel is showing obvious wear then you can just replace the clutch. With a petrol there is less wear on a dmf so you will probably be ok, especially if it is only 2010. However, if the clutch has gone already then it may have caused higher than normal wear. So you may have to just see the condition on removal.
the thing is DMF's are bloody expensive (and a little more prone to failure than SMF's which kind of contradicts what I'm away to write) so you could easily be adding a lot of expense for absolutely no reason. Back in the day it made a lot of sense as a flywheel was not a particularly exuberant expense but now the DMF's rival the price of the clutch.
Thanks both. Guess that goes contrary to my (old fashioned??) view that you would change them at the same time. But I suppose if a main dealer doesn't recommend it, and they ALWAYS want to replace everything that is even vaguely worn (!!), then it must not be complusory. A lot of people do seem to do it at the same time though.
Anyknow what how the "normal" life of a clutch and DMF on a S4 compare? ie. DMF expected to be longer etc? No matter what said here, I still don't want to be taking the gearbox out again in a year's time to replace the flywheel this time.
Anyknow what how the "normal" life of a clutch and DMF on a S4 compare? ie. DMF expected to be longer etc? No matter what said here, I still don't want to be taking the gearbox out again in a year's time to replace the flywheel this time.
ModernAndy said:
the thing is DMF's are bloody expensive .... but now the DMF's rival the price of the clutch.
Not wrong there. DMF more than double the clutch cost!!if it had 100k miles+ on the clock and needed a clutch, then its a case of saving money as the DMF could be a weak point in future, and as stated petrol's aren't as rough on DMF as tdi's, unless you've experienced vibrations/juddering on the over-run or rattles on idle its perfectly normal
My S4 is going in on Monday for a clutch and flywheel change, it's a big job removing the gearbox on these and for the sake of a £440 part it's a no brainier in my opinion. I do wonder what affect the idle 'wobble' has on the flywheel.
Mine has covered 53,000 miles btw, how many has yours covered OP?
Mine has covered 53,000 miles btw, how many has yours covered OP?
lemonslap said:
My S4 is going in on Monday for a clutch and flywheel change, it's a big job removing the gearbox on these and for the sake of a £440 part it's a no brainier in my opinion. I do wonder what affect the idle 'wobble' has on the flywheel.
Mine has covered 53,000 miles btw, how many has yours covered OP?
92k. fMine has covered 53,000 miles btw, how many has yours covered OP?
k that.lemonslap said:
My S4 is going in on Monday for a clutch and flywheel change, it's a big job removing the gearbox on these and for the sake of a £440 part it's a no brainier in my opinion. I do wonder what affect the idle 'wobble' has on the flywheel.
Mine has covered 53,000 miles btw, how many has yours covered OP?
54kMine has covered 53,000 miles btw, how many has yours covered OP?
mmm, trouble is it's a £440 part from ECP, but as my car is in bits at a dealer (don't ask!) it's a lot more than that!!
bungle said:
54k
mmm, trouble is it's a £440 part from ECP, but as my car is in bits at a dealer (don't ask!) it's a lot more than that!!
I bet it is! Why does your clutch need changing out of intrest? Mine is an issue with judder when hot and the clutch pedal needs forcing down hard to start.mmm, trouble is it's a £440 part from ECP, but as my car is in bits at a dealer (don't ask!) it's a lot more than that!!
Main reason, which initiated it, is:
lemonslap said:
clutch pedal needs forcing down hard to start.
but also a little...lemonslap said:
issue with judder
I am assuming this is all clutch related, as they say clutch is worn but flywheel ok, but hence my conundrum as to whether to do flywheel anyway (and try to get them to give me the flywheel "at cost", but I don't know what that is - surely less than £440, if ECP can do an OEM (LUK) for that much?).bungle said:
I am assuming this is all clutch related, as they say clutch is worn but flywheel ok, but hence my conundrum as to whether to do flywheel anyway (and try to get them to give me the flywheel "at cost", but I don't know what that is - surely less than £440, if ECP can do an OEM (LUK) for that much?).
The Audi 'cost' will probably be artificially inflated so their cost will not be cheap at all.SteBrown91 said:
The Audi 'cost' will probably be artificially inflated so their cost will not be cheap at all.
Yes, no doubt it won't be "cost" to VAG from the supplier (LUK), but some sort of internal recharge amount, which only then gives the dealer a small % mark-up to "retail". (in the same way that the "cost" of a new car to the dealer isn't just the direct parts and labour costs etc).What I can't get my head round is that I can go to the ECP counter on the way home and get it for £440, and it's the same part from the same supplier.
Had my flywheel and clutch kit changed by S-line in Ashford, fantastic service from them! Here is the old clutch and flywheel:
Side view of Clutch and flywheel complete:
Front View:
Release Bearing:
Flywheel:
Clutch Plate flywheel side:
Clutch Plate Presure Plate side:
Video of the wear in dual mass flywheel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Sa_sD3nsxk&fe...
Side view of Clutch and flywheel complete:
Front View:
Release Bearing:
Flywheel:
Clutch Plate flywheel side:
Clutch Plate Presure Plate side:
Video of the wear in dual mass flywheel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Sa_sD3nsxk&fe...
bungle said:
...which apart from an Audi logo is probably exactly the same as the Audi part?
How come you went Audi for clutch and ECP for flywheel?
On the advise from the Audi specialist I used for the job, the clutch kit has had lots of revisions hence I went Audi. The flywheel however is exactly the same as OEM just without the audi stamp.How come you went Audi for clutch and ECP for flywheel?
I am kicking myself as the clutch pedal now presses all the way to the floor, which it never did since we owned the car and this would of come under the used Audi warranty that ended in September. I weighed up the risk as if it was a worn clutch plate, it wouldn't of been covered and I would of had a very big bill (your in this boat by the sound of things).
lemonslap said:
On the advise from the Audi specialist I used for the job, the clutch kit has had lots of revisions hence I went Audi.
Interesting. I assumed it was just an Audi stamp on the basic LUK product, as with the...lemonslap said:
The flywheel however is exactly the same as OEM just without the audi stamp.
Thought so - surprised the clutch isn't the same. If you have any more detail on what is different with the "Audi" clutch vs the LUK one I'd be interested to know, as this may influence what I do.
lemonslap said:
I am kicking myself as the clutch pedal now presses all the way to the floor, which it never did since we owned the car and this would of come under the used Audi warranty that ended in September. I weighed up the risk as if it was a worn clutch plate, it wouldn't of been covered and I would of had a very big bill (your in this boat by the sound of things).
It's a tough call as always... the only way I guess you ever find out is when you take the gearbox out to examine the parts, and then you've committed to 6/7/8 hours labour anyway. (which I am now!!)bungle said:
lemonslap said:
On the advise from the Audi specialist I used for the job, the clutch kit has had lots of revisions hence I went Audi.
Interesting. I assumed it was just an Audi stamp on the basic LUK product, as with the...lemonslap said:
The flywheel however is exactly the same as OEM just without the audi stamp.
Thought so - surprised the clutch isn't the same. If you have any more detail on what is different with the "Audi" clutch vs the LUK one I'd be interested to know, as this may influence what I do.
lemonslap said:
I am kicking myself as the clutch pedal now presses all the way to the floor, which it never did since we owned the car and this would of come under the used Audi warranty that ended in September. I weighed up the risk as if it was a worn clutch plate, it wouldn't of been covered and I would of had a very big bill (your in this boat by the sound of things).
It's a tough call as always... the only way I guess you ever find out is when you take the gearbox out to examine the parts, and then you've committed to 6/7/8 hours labour anyway. (which I am now!!)The specialised only charged me for about 7 hours work in total, clutch pedal now travels all the way to the floor and feels very different to drive.
lemonslap said:
On the advise from the Audi specialist I used for the job, the clutch kit has had lots of revisions hence I went Audi. The flywheel however is exactly the same as OEM just without the audi stamp.
Spoke to my trusted indy today (who I have used for years) and he said the same, without me prompting or suggesting it, ie. use Audi for clutch, and ECP LUK flywheel. So that's what I'll do. Gassing Station | Audi, Seat, Skoda & VW | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff