TT or NOT TT....that is....
Discussion
spent ages recently trying to decide on a car...needless to say the car I think I have settled on (350z) is way outside my budget...soooo.., as I dont have a car at the mo (Alfa poorly) I need something interesting, very inexpensive and reasonably quick and reliable.... I have noticed a number of TTs around, always looking smart and having entered my search parameters into PH, the following came back for sub £3k: Mazda RX, MR2. MGF & TT - OK, so we all know the wankels problems, the MR2 seems free of vice,,,but perhaps light on structure somehow (and more expensive than the lovely Alfa GTV TS, which it doesnt deserve imho) which leads me to the TT
Do tell all - preferably a quick guide to the best ones to go for and why, the potential pitfalls, is it really a decent everyday car and re-mapping the 225, is it successful and does that then make the TT rapid? - tis a heavy old hector for sure
What mpg on a cruise?
Who is my nearest specialist - Corby Northants
Very grateful for all advice given
ps the TT forum doesnt process my registration (No ack. mail)
Do tell all - preferably a quick guide to the best ones to go for and why, the potential pitfalls, is it really a decent everyday car and re-mapping the 225, is it successful and does that then make the TT rapid? - tis a heavy old hector for sure
What mpg on a cruise?
Who is my nearest specialist - Corby Northants
Very grateful for all advice given
ps the TT forum doesnt process my registration (No ack. mail)
All very subjective of course, and I've not had a TT in almost 9 years now, but I loved my MKI 225 coupe.
From what you've said It's probably the car to go for all other things being equal.
It's easier to tune and a better 'driver's car' than the 3.2 V6. I put that in quotes as it's still an Audi, and all TTs understeer dramatically when pushed. The heavy V6 engine only makes this worse.
If you don't need the, frankly useless, rear seats, then there was a later version called the Quattro Sport that was lighter, more powerful and a bit more driver focussed. Again with that Audi caveat. Though I doubt that there'd be any for 3k yet.
Having said all that, if I was going to get another (and it's still on my wishlist) I'd get a 3.2 manual as I don't intend to tune it and it makes a nicer noise.
From what you've said It's probably the car to go for all other things being equal.
It's easier to tune and a better 'driver's car' than the 3.2 V6. I put that in quotes as it's still an Audi, and all TTs understeer dramatically when pushed. The heavy V6 engine only makes this worse.
If you don't need the, frankly useless, rear seats, then there was a later version called the Quattro Sport that was lighter, more powerful and a bit more driver focussed. Again with that Audi caveat. Though I doubt that there'd be any for 3k yet.
Having said all that, if I was going to get another (and it's still on my wishlist) I'd get a 3.2 manual as I don't intend to tune it and it makes a nicer noise.
Whoops...
As said above, 225 is the one to get, unless you want that noise...and who wouldn't? But the manual ones are unbelievably rare. Standard advice of buy on condition not mileage is sound.
Shocks and bushes will be knackered if not already sorted, look for one which has had this done. Some people say poly bushes are the work of the devil - not my experience at all.
Common issue with sludge building up all over the engine, look for regular servicing and oil changes, long life servicing not desired. Oil used by the dealers is rated for long life servicing anyway so don't be thrown off by that. The pickup pipe in the sump commonly gets blocked with aforementioned sludge, ideally you want it to have been replaced some time fairly recently. Not big money to have this done - easy enough to do it yourself if you can be trusted with a spanner (I can't).
The Haldex AWD system is pretty robust but ideally oil and filter should be changed every 40,000 miles...most likely this hasn't ever been done. Again not big money. Also on the Haldex, you have to get to know it to take full advantage...drive it like a FWD car and it will feel completely FWD but with endless traction. Get on the power early (really early) and you can feel the rear doing its thing - though it's never going to be tail-out fun except if you provoke it in ridiculous conditions. Watch out for an exaggerated lift-off oversteer feeling, it releases the rear axle completely under braking.
Personally I find it astonishing that anyone can't feel the Haldex working, but the standard test involves coasting around in a tight circle. With the engine at idle, the Haldex clutch will be disengaged. With the engine in the middle of the rev range, the Haldex clutch will be partially engaged and you will therefore stop sooner. Disclaimer: I haven't tried this, but the logic is sound!
Springs often fail, especially on the rear. Calipers also an issue on the rear - they stick. Some people swear by refurbishing them, of course if (like me) you're not doing the work yourself, this probably ends up more expensive than just replacing the damn things. Have a feel of the wheels after a test drive - if one or both of the rears is really hot, it's sticking.
As with all forced induction engines, watch out for boost leaks, and also leaks in the PCV system. Some people like to replace the diverter valve etc with nice shiny ones from the likes of Forge - these are fine, but add nothing beyond "shiny!" compared to OEM ones. In some cases they vent to air instead of recirculating - bad.
Steering is very vague. Stiffer bushes in the front wishbones help, and a few companies offer adapters to reduce from a 45mm to 30mm bush, which the TT originally came with. Wishbones with the 30mm bush were replaced under recall after some highly-publicised accidents in Germany, also leading to standard ESP and the boot spoiler. I've got a 45mm Powerflex bush in here, the difference from stock was ridiculous. Supposedly the reducing adapters make about the same difference again.
They will understeer severely but assuming you're not afraid of the throttle (and thus keeping the rear axle in play) you have to be pushing it on the road. Keeping your foot in is essential. Lots of people fit the larger rear ARB from an equivalent R32, apparently this does wonders for the balance.
Lowered cars suffer from excessive camber on the rear, leading to short tyre life. This can be sorted with some adjustable tie arms, but they're not cheap.
Haven't mapped mine yet, though it's on the list. Most 225 cars (thus K04 turbo-equipped rather than the smaller K03) will gain another 30-40 BHP without much issue. Larger intake pipework helps here. "Everybody says" that it makes a huge difference to the feel of the car...no doubt there's some exaggeration going on here, but the idea seems to be universal. Custom map is the done thing. A few mappers are extremely highly regarded, Niki at R-Tech (near Nuneaton) will be the closest to you.
Even with a map I'm not sure "rapid" is the word. You can tune them pretty much as far as you like, the only limit is cashflow. Quite a lot of people are running north of 600 horses on these engines, admittedly with a lot of new stuff, but pushing 300 is possible with a larger intercooler and downpipe etc. Beyond that you need to start fitting stronger internals.
The 8L S3 section on the Audi Sport forum is well worth a visit for shared mechanical stuff (most of it). Helpful chaps mostly, lots of knowledge there. The TT forum doesn't seem quite as clued up...until some American chap pops his head up and blows your mind with geometry calculations...but obviously there are issues which are unique to the TT. The only one which springs to mind is the dash pods, which have to be replaced. I understand that this isn't horribly expensive but can't tell you a number.
It's not a particularly fast or fun car, but it's a decent daily driver for getting from A to B, in reasonable comfort and at a reasonable pace in all conditions. I can't speak for the practicalities of the TT body but these cars are just the right size IMO, equivalent (almost to the millimetre in the case of the S3) to a current A1 or Polo.
If you have any more questions...
ETA: 30-35 on a cruise. My long term average (calculated) is 25, but the commute takes less than 15 minutes.
As said above, 225 is the one to get, unless you want that noise...and who wouldn't? But the manual ones are unbelievably rare. Standard advice of buy on condition not mileage is sound.
Shocks and bushes will be knackered if not already sorted, look for one which has had this done. Some people say poly bushes are the work of the devil - not my experience at all.
Common issue with sludge building up all over the engine, look for regular servicing and oil changes, long life servicing not desired. Oil used by the dealers is rated for long life servicing anyway so don't be thrown off by that. The pickup pipe in the sump commonly gets blocked with aforementioned sludge, ideally you want it to have been replaced some time fairly recently. Not big money to have this done - easy enough to do it yourself if you can be trusted with a spanner (I can't).
The Haldex AWD system is pretty robust but ideally oil and filter should be changed every 40,000 miles...most likely this hasn't ever been done. Again not big money. Also on the Haldex, you have to get to know it to take full advantage...drive it like a FWD car and it will feel completely FWD but with endless traction. Get on the power early (really early) and you can feel the rear doing its thing - though it's never going to be tail-out fun except if you provoke it in ridiculous conditions. Watch out for an exaggerated lift-off oversteer feeling, it releases the rear axle completely under braking.
Personally I find it astonishing that anyone can't feel the Haldex working, but the standard test involves coasting around in a tight circle. With the engine at idle, the Haldex clutch will be disengaged. With the engine in the middle of the rev range, the Haldex clutch will be partially engaged and you will therefore stop sooner. Disclaimer: I haven't tried this, but the logic is sound!
Springs often fail, especially on the rear. Calipers also an issue on the rear - they stick. Some people swear by refurbishing them, of course if (like me) you're not doing the work yourself, this probably ends up more expensive than just replacing the damn things. Have a feel of the wheels after a test drive - if one or both of the rears is really hot, it's sticking.
As with all forced induction engines, watch out for boost leaks, and also leaks in the PCV system. Some people like to replace the diverter valve etc with nice shiny ones from the likes of Forge - these are fine, but add nothing beyond "shiny!" compared to OEM ones. In some cases they vent to air instead of recirculating - bad.
Steering is very vague. Stiffer bushes in the front wishbones help, and a few companies offer adapters to reduce from a 45mm to 30mm bush, which the TT originally came with. Wishbones with the 30mm bush were replaced under recall after some highly-publicised accidents in Germany, also leading to standard ESP and the boot spoiler. I've got a 45mm Powerflex bush in here, the difference from stock was ridiculous. Supposedly the reducing adapters make about the same difference again.
They will understeer severely but assuming you're not afraid of the throttle (and thus keeping the rear axle in play) you have to be pushing it on the road. Keeping your foot in is essential. Lots of people fit the larger rear ARB from an equivalent R32, apparently this does wonders for the balance.
Lowered cars suffer from excessive camber on the rear, leading to short tyre life. This can be sorted with some adjustable tie arms, but they're not cheap.
Haven't mapped mine yet, though it's on the list. Most 225 cars (thus K04 turbo-equipped rather than the smaller K03) will gain another 30-40 BHP without much issue. Larger intake pipework helps here. "Everybody says" that it makes a huge difference to the feel of the car...no doubt there's some exaggeration going on here, but the idea seems to be universal. Custom map is the done thing. A few mappers are extremely highly regarded, Niki at R-Tech (near Nuneaton) will be the closest to you.
Even with a map I'm not sure "rapid" is the word. You can tune them pretty much as far as you like, the only limit is cashflow. Quite a lot of people are running north of 600 horses on these engines, admittedly with a lot of new stuff, but pushing 300 is possible with a larger intercooler and downpipe etc. Beyond that you need to start fitting stronger internals.
The 8L S3 section on the Audi Sport forum is well worth a visit for shared mechanical stuff (most of it). Helpful chaps mostly, lots of knowledge there. The TT forum doesn't seem quite as clued up...until some American chap pops his head up and blows your mind with geometry calculations...but obviously there are issues which are unique to the TT. The only one which springs to mind is the dash pods, which have to be replaced. I understand that this isn't horribly expensive but can't tell you a number.
It's not a particularly fast or fun car, but it's a decent daily driver for getting from A to B, in reasonable comfort and at a reasonable pace in all conditions. I can't speak for the practicalities of the TT body but these cars are just the right size IMO, equivalent (almost to the millimetre in the case of the S3) to a current A1 or Polo.
If you have any more questions...
ETA: 30-35 on a cruise. My long term average (calculated) is 25, but the commute takes less than 15 minutes.
Edited by tomjol on Thursday 6th August 19:56
I run an 02 mk1 225 coupe as my daily station car - can't beat it for value really, mine was £2k with a decent mot and a wedge full of reciepts and invoices including 3x cambelt's in 135k. Just passed the mot this week without a single advisory.
Some say it's not fun,but I'm no stig wanna be so 6.5 secs to 60 is fast enough for me and great traction means you can maintain the speed in corners.
Rear seats are pretty useless, don't kid yourself it's a 4 seater unless you are really short. Interior holds up well considering age and mileage. Saw a fair few rusty ones when I looked, mainly around the bumper joins and bottom of arches.
Buy on condition not mileage, at sub 3k most cars are now around 15yrs old
The 225 BAM engine is the one to have, avoid the 180 and avoid the blue with blue interior - it's not a great seller. Look out for the later 150bhp fwd only version, they look cheap but are pretty slow. Mine came fitted with a K&N cone - not sure it makes any difference but sounds a little more throaty.
18's look good but ride harder than 16's - I prefer the look of the 18 though.
Also do a text check, I had a list of 12 cars to see - 8 of which came back with some level of discrepancy or issue
Mpg I average around 23-25 on short 5 mile trips,,a decent run to Manchester on cruise saw 37 according to OBC
Compare like for like- at that price bracket I didn't find much of comparable performance /age that wasn't a dull saloon or hatchback.
Personally I wouldn't bother with a remap unless you are going to track it - performance is more than adequate for normal driving conditions.
Red leather seems to demand a premium too. I was really after an aviator grey car - looks stunning but you don't see many around.
I reckon Mk1's have pretty much hit the bottom of the curve, get a good one with decent miles and you may just see it start to sneak up in value
Some say it's not fun,but I'm no stig wanna be so 6.5 secs to 60 is fast enough for me and great traction means you can maintain the speed in corners.
Rear seats are pretty useless, don't kid yourself it's a 4 seater unless you are really short. Interior holds up well considering age and mileage. Saw a fair few rusty ones when I looked, mainly around the bumper joins and bottom of arches.
Buy on condition not mileage, at sub 3k most cars are now around 15yrs old
The 225 BAM engine is the one to have, avoid the 180 and avoid the blue with blue interior - it's not a great seller. Look out for the later 150bhp fwd only version, they look cheap but are pretty slow. Mine came fitted with a K&N cone - not sure it makes any difference but sounds a little more throaty.
18's look good but ride harder than 16's - I prefer the look of the 18 though.
Also do a text check, I had a list of 12 cars to see - 8 of which came back with some level of discrepancy or issue
Mpg I average around 23-25 on short 5 mile trips,,a decent run to Manchester on cruise saw 37 according to OBC
Compare like for like- at that price bracket I didn't find much of comparable performance /age that wasn't a dull saloon or hatchback.
Personally I wouldn't bother with a remap unless you are going to track it - performance is more than adequate for normal driving conditions.
Red leather seems to demand a premium too. I was really after an aviator grey car - looks stunning but you don't see many around.
I reckon Mk1's have pretty much hit the bottom of the curve, get a good one with decent miles and you may just see it start to sneak up in value
gentlemen, you are indeed scholars
Thx kindly for all that effort, much appreciated & will join my ref. archive
I shall no doubt get back to you shortly with more queries,,,, meanwhile, folk refer to TT as unreliable - why?
I am worried that even a galvanized Audi has rust issues - are these all apparent and cosmetic? - Hopefully nothing structural on a sub 100k, non 1st yr example?
Re handling, have you seen: http://auditttuning.org/2013/09/19/the-powertrack-...
What are the 'text errors' of which you speak?
thx chaps
Thx kindly for all that effort, much appreciated & will join my ref. archive
I shall no doubt get back to you shortly with more queries,,,, meanwhile, folk refer to TT as unreliable - why?
I am worried that even a galvanized Audi has rust issues - are these all apparent and cosmetic? - Hopefully nothing structural on a sub 100k, non 1st yr example?
Re handling, have you seen: http://auditttuning.org/2013/09/19/the-powertrack-...
What are the 'text errors' of which you speak?
thx chaps
I've had my TT since November as a daily commuter (Corby to Rushden) and can't fault it.
As has been said, there are a few documented issues, but then given the age of the car, it's hardly surprising! The dashpod issue is one that has been present right from the start, Audi used to repair/replace them, but not longer. Missing pixels on the DIS is the most obvious problem, but also bad readings for temp, fuel etc. There are a few companies that will repair the pods, some require you to remove and send it to them (leaving the car temporarily undrivable) and some offer a same day fix if you drive in.
Don't be afraid of high milers, as if looked after, the engines will just run and run. The key is to find one with an extensive service history, regular servicing, and the haldex has been serviced.
Locally, there's the TTShop in Kempston. But although they do know their stuff, they are terrible at communicating - phone calls and emails don't always get responded to, and the main reason I'll not be going back there.
There's also APS in Brackley, who always get glowing reviews, and where I'll be taking mine next.
As has been said, there are a few documented issues, but then given the age of the car, it's hardly surprising! The dashpod issue is one that has been present right from the start, Audi used to repair/replace them, but not longer. Missing pixels on the DIS is the most obvious problem, but also bad readings for temp, fuel etc. There are a few companies that will repair the pods, some require you to remove and send it to them (leaving the car temporarily undrivable) and some offer a same day fix if you drive in.
Don't be afraid of high milers, as if looked after, the engines will just run and run. The key is to find one with an extensive service history, regular servicing, and the haldex has been serviced.
Locally, there's the TTShop in Kempston. But although they do know their stuff, they are terrible at communicating - phone calls and emails don't always get responded to, and the main reason I'll not be going back there.
There's also APS in Brackley, who always get glowing reviews, and where I'll be taking mine next.
Sorry - yes the HpI checks you can do online. I used mytextcheck, there are lots to choose from. Will tell you number of owners, colour, verify mileage and let you know if it's on any insurance register. £3 usually but worth it.
I was going to look at a car advertised with 5 previous owners, the text check came back telling me it had 12 - bit of a Difference and adds a little bit of security before shelling out any money.
You normally only need the registration number of the car to check
I was going to look at a car advertised with 5 previous owners, the text check came back telling me it had 12 - bit of a Difference and adds a little bit of security before shelling out any money.
You normally only need the registration number of the car to check
Count Vampirski said:
thx Cherie for heads-up on TTW. = I am southern edge of Oakley Vale.
Do you have the 225? - If so are you actively considering a re-map?
Guys, any particular yr 225 to go for? - Is the roadster much heavier or lack rigidity - scuttle shake?
We're Oakley Vale too, so you're not that far from us at all.Do you have the 225? - If so are you actively considering a re-map?
Guys, any particular yr 225 to go for? - Is the roadster much heavier or lack rigidity - scuttle shake?
Mine's a 225 coupé, I've been considering a remap, but still undecided at the moment.
Year wise, it depends on what your plans are. In 2002 there was a slight facelift that added options, they were mostly cosmetic, but the main difference is the 18" alloys as standard and suspension lower by 20mm.
I've not noticed any complaints over handling differences between the roadster and the coupé, altgough the roof can suffer from blocked drain channels, but those are easily cleared.
For forum registration issues, email ttforum @ mail.com. The email has probably been dumped in spam, unless you're using gmail, as that's restricted due to spam registration issues (although googlemail works fine)
If you want to 'try before you buy' with a good example, let me know.
thank for that Cherie, I see a black one occasionally on Oakley Vale and I think I noticed one in a drive on Lyveden Way - Yes love to go out in one again as a reference before I start my search - only ever drove one and the performance was very disappointing, must have been a boost leak or something - I am hoping with a re-map to get a spirited back road car, particularly with the Haldex and arb mod.
Used to have a Scooby 03 sti PPP, which I find far more than I need these days as a daily drive
The 20mm lowering worth knowing about - love the BBS'split-rim fine spoked type alloys' not sure what diameter they are or what tyres would fit - did the 20 mm drop come on roadster too?
Thx for tt forum link i will get on with that
Used to have a Scooby 03 sti PPP, which I find far more than I need these days as a daily drive
The 20mm lowering worth knowing about - love the BBS'split-rim fine spoked type alloys' not sure what diameter they are or what tyres would fit - did the 20 mm drop come on roadster too?
Thx for tt forum link i will get on with that
There are a few around here, there's a prefacelift dark navy blue one I've seen further down Lyveden Way, with 6 spoke alloys, but mine's usually in the garage unless it's being driven or cleaned.
I know for sure that mine has no boost leaks, as it came out at 222.4 bhp on a rolling road day a few months ago.
The facelift was on both the coupé and roadster. The 9 spoke 18" alloys are standard on the facelift for the 225 (6 spoke 17" for the prefacelift), 17" 'competition' alloys, or the BBS RS2 alloys were options. The BBS RS2 seem to mostly be on the 3.2 V6, but were always an option. Getting a 2nd hand set can be costly. The standards suit the car well IMO. The standard offset is ET34, tyres 225/40/18. Spacers are a popular mod (15mm front, 20mm rear)
The facelift doesn't need much lowering (taste dependant), but will easily take a little before you're into 'scene' territory.
I know for sure that mine has no boost leaks, as it came out at 222.4 bhp on a rolling road day a few months ago.
The facelift was on both the coupé and roadster. The 9 spoke 18" alloys are standard on the facelift for the 225 (6 spoke 17" for the prefacelift), 17" 'competition' alloys, or the BBS RS2 alloys were options. The BBS RS2 seem to mostly be on the 3.2 V6, but were always an option. Getting a 2nd hand set can be costly. The standards suit the car well IMO. The standard offset is ET34, tyres 225/40/18. Spacers are a popular mod (15mm front, 20mm rear)
The facelift doesn't need much lowering (taste dependant), but will easily take a little before you're into 'scene' territory.
Count Vampirski said:
thank for that Cherie, I see a black one occasionally on Oakley Vale and I think I noticed one in a drive on Lyveden Way - Yes love to go out in one again as a reference before I start my search - only ever drove one and the performance was very disappointing, must have been a boost leak or something - I am hoping with a re-map to get a spirited back road car, particularly with the Haldex and arb mod.
- Cherie's other half here*
If you've only been in a potentially boost leaking car then you might not need the remap..
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