VW Group US Recall over Emissions Deception
Discussion
Interesting. Yet another example of the US holding large companies/organisations/individuals to account.
Telegraph Article
Telegraph Article
rassi said:
What exactly is the "deception"?
Emissions legislation specifically states you should not have software within the ECU that attempts to recognise when the vehicle is being subjected to a regulated test, with the intention of altering the emissions performance of that vehicle. It is also the case in Europe, and has been for several iterations of the Euro emissions standards.There have been examples of this in the past, as the 24hr warm soak before a test, plus putting the vehicle on a dyno with the bonnet open etc, are pretty specific circumstances prior to a test.
The idea of the emissions test is to guarantee a level of pollutant emissions in normal use that is acceptable, so blatantly fiddling it so they bare no resemblance is at the naughty end of the scale in a corporate sense. Makes you wonder if the ECUs are shared with European models....
oldaudi said:
How does the car know its having a test? All I've ever seen is the probe going up the exhaust, how does it know to activate this software/ECU mapping to change the emissions?
We're not talking the annual MOT here, it's about a regulatory approval. Vehicles have to be 'soaked' at a set temperature for a given period, then they get moved into position and subject to a very specific drive cycle. On a 2wd vehicle one pair of wheels will almost certainly be stationary and the acceleration will be glacial This is what generates the CO2 output used to generate its ved rate, company car tax liability, fleet average co2 contribution to the manufacturer.
Ah ok thanks. So if its the test that's done before it comes on the market and they skew the figures that way to make it look better than it actually is when its being driven by the public, what happens at MOT time. If they check the output and its way over what it should be (because the car doesn't know its having a fancy emissions test and now its just the US equivalent of a MOT) surely that will also set alarm bells ringing. Bloomberg are stating that the actual emissions in normal road use could be 10 to 40 times the quoted level.
va1o said:
Are the actual technical details of this listed out anywhere? I.e. what specific engines/ models its applicable to and which control module is responsible.
Volkswagen says 11 million cars were fitted with the pollution cheating software. The models affected include:2009
Jetta, Jetta Sportswagen: test groups 9VWXV02.035N /9VWXV02.0U5N
2010
Jetta, Jetta Sportswagen, Golf, Audi A3: test group AVWXV02.OU5N
2011
Jetta, Jetta Sportswagen, Golf, Audi A3: test group BVWXV02OU5N
2012
Jetta, Jetta Sportswagen, Golf, Audi A3, Beetle, Beetle Convertible: test group CVWXV02OU5N
VW Passat: test group CVWXV02OU4S
2013
Jetta, Jetta Sportswagen, Golf, Audi A3, Beetle, Beetle Convertible: test group CVWXV02OU5N
VW Passat: test group DVWXV02OU4S
2014
Jetta, Jetta Sportswagen, Golf, Audi A3, Beetle, Beetle Convertible: test group DVWXV02OU5N
VW Passat: test group EVWXV02OU4S
2015
Jetta, Jetta Sportswagen, Golf, Audi A3, Beetle, Beetle Convertible, Passat: test group FVGAV02.0VAL
Various aspects of this puzzle me.
Assuming VW technology is not behind that of other major manufacturers, one would expect the emissions to be broadly similar for vehicles which are similar. A Mondeo from Ford, a BMW3 or a Passat would, for example all be broadly similar. So if VW passes (with a fiddle), how can the others pass without a fiddle? If they can, it would suggest VW technicians are way behind the game.
Assume everyone is "at it". This then makes a mockery of the standards being set by the Eurocrats. It would mean noone comes anywhere near the current defined standards and we need a realignment, rather like a currency knocking three zeroes from the vlaue (like Turkey and the Lira not that long ago).
Quite specifically, my Audi Q3 was a puzzle to my local Audi dealer as they found a non-standard ECU software programme and claimed that a dealer couldnt have made the changes, only the factory. Examining the factory record, it seems my car is a different colour and that the record has been "adjusted". So what's all that about? One consequence is that the dealer wont touch my car any more.
Assuming VW technology is not behind that of other major manufacturers, one would expect the emissions to be broadly similar for vehicles which are similar. A Mondeo from Ford, a BMW3 or a Passat would, for example all be broadly similar. So if VW passes (with a fiddle), how can the others pass without a fiddle? If they can, it would suggest VW technicians are way behind the game.
Assume everyone is "at it". This then makes a mockery of the standards being set by the Eurocrats. It would mean noone comes anywhere near the current defined standards and we need a realignment, rather like a currency knocking three zeroes from the vlaue (like Turkey and the Lira not that long ago).
Quite specifically, my Audi Q3 was a puzzle to my local Audi dealer as they found a non-standard ECU software programme and claimed that a dealer couldnt have made the changes, only the factory. Examining the factory record, it seems my car is a different colour and that the record has been "adjusted". So what's all that about? One consequence is that the dealer wont touch my car any more.
Philip0 said:
va1o said:
Are the actual technical details of this listed out anywhere? I.e. what specific engines/ models its applicable to and which control module is responsible.
Volkswagen says 11 million cars were fitted with the pollution cheating software. The models affected include:2009
Jetta, Jetta Sportswagen: test groups 9VWXV02.035N /9VWXV02.0U5N
2010
Jetta, Jetta Sportswagen, Golf, Audi A3: test group AVWXV02.OU5N
2011
Jetta, Jetta Sportswagen, Golf, Audi A3: test group BVWXV02OU5N
2012
Jetta, Jetta Sportswagen, Golf, Audi A3, Beetle, Beetle Convertible: test group CVWXV02OU5N
VW Passat: test group CVWXV02OU4S
2013
Jetta, Jetta Sportswagen, Golf, Audi A3, Beetle, Beetle Convertible: test group CVWXV02OU5N
VW Passat: test group DVWXV02OU4S
2014
Jetta, Jetta Sportswagen, Golf, Audi A3, Beetle, Beetle Convertible: test group DVWXV02OU5N
VW Passat: test group EVWXV02OU4S
2015
Jetta, Jetta Sportswagen, Golf, Audi A3, Beetle, Beetle Convertible, Passat: test group FVGAV02.0VAL
Benjamyn999 said:
Various aspects of this puzzle me.
Assuming VW technology is not behind that of other major manufacturers, one would expect the emissions to be broadly similar for vehicles which are similar. A Mondeo from Ford, a BMW3 or a Passat would, for example all be broadly similar. So if VW passes (with a fiddle), how can the others pass without a fiddle? If they can, it would suggest VW technicians are way behind the game.
Assume everyone is "at it". This then makes a mockery of the standards being set by the Eurocrats. It would mean noone comes anywhere near the current defined standards and we need a realignment, rather like a currency knocking three zeroes from the vlaue (like Turkey and the Lira not that long ago).
Good point, I'd been wondering the same. If VW had to manipulate the emissions to get through the tests, then the likelihood is others did too. But I guess they are one of relatively few manufacturers offering diesel passenger vehicles in the USA compared to those in Europe.Assuming VW technology is not behind that of other major manufacturers, one would expect the emissions to be broadly similar for vehicles which are similar. A Mondeo from Ford, a BMW3 or a Passat would, for example all be broadly similar. So if VW passes (with a fiddle), how can the others pass without a fiddle? If they can, it would suggest VW technicians are way behind the game.
Assume everyone is "at it". This then makes a mockery of the standards being set by the Eurocrats. It would mean noone comes anywhere near the current defined standards and we need a realignment, rather like a currency knocking three zeroes from the vlaue (like Turkey and the Lira not that long ago).
va1o said:
Good point, I'd been wondering the same. If VW had to manipulate the emissions to get through the tests, then the likelihood is others did too. But I guess they are one of relatively few manufacturers offering diesel passenger vehicles in the USA compared to those in Europe.
The US tests aren't that much stricter than the EU tests for NOx at least. If they couldn't meet the US tests by a factor of 10-40 then they're also way out for euro 5 and 6.Gassing Station | Audi, Seat, Skoda & VW | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff