Audi A5, DSG oil in tiptronic
Discussion
Tried a quick search to no avail, anyone who can answer the following conundrum?
Had my car in at the garage today, 09 A5 3.0Tdi quattro tip. Due to import and registration circumstances it's number plate will show it as a '10 A5 with the S-tronic, and every garage in my country will order parts after these details, however I made the differences abundantly clear when I booked the car in for its ATF change, that it is in fact a Tiptronic despite what their records may say. This was duly noted and written down by the garage's receptionist.
So, you all can guess what the garage did nevertheless...
My question is: what sort of "damage", if any, can I expect from having filled the tiptronic gearbox with about 4 liters of DSG specific oil? I presume the garage did their normal run-ins post fluid change so not sure to what extent the car has been driven with the wrong oil. Best case scenario it has been driven from their lift and outside round the corner and then parked up. This was also just a drain/refill job, not a full flush.
Thanks in advance
Had my car in at the garage today, 09 A5 3.0Tdi quattro tip. Due to import and registration circumstances it's number plate will show it as a '10 A5 with the S-tronic, and every garage in my country will order parts after these details, however I made the differences abundantly clear when I booked the car in for its ATF change, that it is in fact a Tiptronic despite what their records may say. This was duly noted and written down by the garage's receptionist.
So, you all can guess what the garage did nevertheless...
My question is: what sort of "damage", if any, can I expect from having filled the tiptronic gearbox with about 4 liters of DSG specific oil? I presume the garage did their normal run-ins post fluid change so not sure to what extent the car has been driven with the wrong oil. Best case scenario it has been driven from their lift and outside round the corner and then parked up. This was also just a drain/refill job, not a full flush.
Thanks in advance
Well as the tip box takes 9 litres of ATF I'd seriously consider getting it recovered to a transmission specialist and have them fully drain and flush your gearbox before using it. Simply 'dropping' the oil will not get the residual 2-3 litres out of the torque convertor either.
You potentially have a gearbox that is considerably under filled and with a mixture of oils in. Wouldn't chance it myself.
EDIT: Local registration shouldn't make any difference with ordering unless they're making assumptions based on its age. Really they should be looking up on the chassis number that will always point back to the proper parts.
You potentially have a gearbox that is considerably under filled and with a mixture of oils in. Wouldn't chance it myself.
EDIT: Local registration shouldn't make any difference with ordering unless they're making assumptions based on its age. Really they should be looking up on the chassis number that will always point back to the proper parts.
Thanks, was hoping to get an answer from you with your expertise.
As said, it originally was only a drain and refill job, they only drained and refilled about 4 liters of the stuff, so I am wondering how necessary it is with a full flush when the gearbox will see an almost immediate drain and refill with the proper oil straight after the mishap.
Was also wondering about the proprietary different qualities and abilities of the two oils and if it will in fact be harmful to run the gearbox with replaced fluids as in the above described state.
Thanks Dr G.
As said, it originally was only a drain and refill job, they only drained and refilled about 4 liters of the stuff, so I am wondering how necessary it is with a full flush when the gearbox will see an almost immediate drain and refill with the proper oil straight after the mishap.
Was also wondering about the proprietary different qualities and abilities of the two oils and if it will in fact be harmful to run the gearbox with replaced fluids as in the above described state.
Thanks Dr G.
To do a 'proper' job involves a special machine to circulate the oil, to ensure the oil stuck in the torque converter is removed. It's mainly only ZF repair agents that have it (they're dotted all over) - Audi don't have them and very few specialists do. I know of one down South near Newbury, the rest are ZF agents.
You would expect at least a litre of oil to stay in the torque converter if you're just dropping the sump to do an oil change.
The S-tronic box has a cartridge filter on the side of the box, if it has one at all. The ZF autos require the exhaust partially removing to allow the sump pan to come off, before they can then unbolt the filter assembly from inside the box.
If they've started the car up with the wrong oil in, it will have circulated. This needs sorting properly to avoid future big repair bills that they will not be interested in dealing with down the line. It might be a year or two, but long term use with the wrong grade of oil in there is a bit like when the oil to water exchangers fail and mix water into the gearbox oil. The results are generally not pretty.....
You would expect at least a litre of oil to stay in the torque converter if you're just dropping the sump to do an oil change.
The S-tronic box has a cartridge filter on the side of the box, if it has one at all. The ZF autos require the exhaust partially removing to allow the sump pan to come off, before they can then unbolt the filter assembly from inside the box.
If they've started the car up with the wrong oil in, it will have circulated. This needs sorting properly to avoid future big repair bills that they will not be interested in dealing with down the line. It might be a year or two, but long term use with the wrong grade of oil in there is a bit like when the oil to water exchangers fail and mix water into the gearbox oil. The results are generally not pretty.....
I'm with Adrian. Gearboxes are expensive and worrying about it would be no fun.
Without wishing to sound a downer on the garage you're using were it my car I think I'd want a proper ZF man to do it and ensure none of the wrong oil remains. Of course if the garage have the correct equipment to fully flush this is fine but even an Audi dealer/specialist is unlikely to. In Audi speak that gearbox is 'sealed for life'.
You probably can't expect the garage to foot the bill for the whole job but if they're prepared to make a decent contribution (say, buying you the correct oil and maybe some of the other work gratis) you can chalk it up as a good piece of preventative maintenance and get new oil in the box at a reduced price.
Without wishing to sound a downer on the garage you're using were it my car I think I'd want a proper ZF man to do it and ensure none of the wrong oil remains. Of course if the garage have the correct equipment to fully flush this is fine but even an Audi dealer/specialist is unlikely to. In Audi speak that gearbox is 'sealed for life'.
You probably can't expect the garage to foot the bill for the whole job but if they're prepared to make a decent contribution (say, buying you the correct oil and maybe some of the other work gratis) you can chalk it up as a good piece of preventative maintenance and get new oil in the box at a reduced price.
MrwReckless said:
Tried a quick search to no avail, anyone who can answer the following conundrum?
Had my car in at the garage today, 09 A5 3.0Tdi quattro tip. Due to import and registration circumstances it's number plate will show it as a '10 A5 with the S-tronic, and every garage in my country will order parts after these details, however I made the differences abundantly clear when I booked the car in for its ATF change, that it is in fact a Tiptronic despite what their records may say. This was duly noted and written down by the garage's receptionist.
So, you all can guess what the garage did nevertheless...
My question is: what sort of "damage", if any, can I expect from having filled the tiptronic gearbox with about 4 liters of DSG specific oil? I presume the garage did their normal run-ins post fluid change so not sure to what extent the car has been driven with the wrong oil. Best case scenario it has been driven from their lift and outside round the corner and then parked up. This was also just a drain/refill job, not a full flush.
Thanks in advance
This wouldnt have happened at your local Audi Centre. The vin number is used to pick the correct parts. #Justsaying.Had my car in at the garage today, 09 A5 3.0Tdi quattro tip. Due to import and registration circumstances it's number plate will show it as a '10 A5 with the S-tronic, and every garage in my country will order parts after these details, however I made the differences abundantly clear when I booked the car in for its ATF change, that it is in fact a Tiptronic despite what their records may say. This was duly noted and written down by the garage's receptionist.
So, you all can guess what the garage did nevertheless...
My question is: what sort of "damage", if any, can I expect from having filled the tiptronic gearbox with about 4 liters of DSG specific oil? I presume the garage did their normal run-ins post fluid change so not sure to what extent the car has been driven with the wrong oil. Best case scenario it has been driven from their lift and outside round the corner and then parked up. This was also just a drain/refill job, not a full flush.
Thanks in advance
Also why did they only put 4 litres in, thats no where near enough.
The clutchs would be the only things that could be damaged, asuming the dsg oil is safe with the zf oil seals.
Tame Technician said:
This wouldnt have happened at your local Audi Centre. The vin number is used to pick the correct parts. #Justsaying.
Also why did they only put 4 litres in, thats no where near enough.
The clutchs would be the only things that could be damaged, asuming the dsg oil is safe with the zf oil seals.
Initially it was just a drain and refill job, they drained the sump and replaced with as much oil as was drained, so it was never underfilled, however it was the wrong oil. Also why did they only put 4 litres in, thats no where near enough.
The clutchs would be the only things that could be damaged, asuming the dsg oil is safe with the zf oil seals.
Regarding the local Audi centre, when I first spoke with them about gearbox oil change, they also thought it was a DSG because they too do go from the number plate instead of the VIN. Furthermore, when I challenged their customer service clerk, he was then going on about multitronic, which I frankly find offensive as it was a FWD gearbox only and mine is a 3.0tdi which was always a quattro for the model year. The only guy I trust there is their OEM parts fellow, as he does intact bring up the VIN to get the correct parts I want.
Thanks for your answer regarding the oil and clutch. The garage did end up with a full flush of the gearbox which I so far find sufficient since the car was never driven further than out of their workshop, I have had it for a test drive and so far it seems good. I do think it is a good call to get the garage to write up on their invoice down to the detail what they have done in case the gearbox grenades and I will then at least have something to go back with.
Thanks for all replies
Just be aware that setting the right level of gearbox oil requires the box to be more or less stone cold and up on a ramp, level. They have to monitor the oil temp of the box with VCDS whilst filling it from underneath until oil dribbles out the filler, having gone through a process to shift between gears to make sure all the oilways have oil in them before final oil level is reached. It's an utter pain in the arse to do right.
I presume they removed the sump pan from the box and fitted a new filter?
I presume they removed the sump pan from the box and fitted a new filter?
I wasn't present during the job but I will ask them about the proceedings when I go to alleviate myself of my hard earned cash for their efforts. I will only assume they know how to do this sort of job but seeing they managed to cock it up once I'm not holding my breath.
At least it seemed to work and shift normal on the drive after they finished.
At least it seemed to work and shift normal on the drive after they finished.
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