Potential new daily driver: RS4 B8 vs C63 AMG? Opinions?
Discussion
Audi drivers will probably post/read more in the Audi forum and Mercedes driver in the other...so I posted the thread in the two sections to get a more mixed opinions. I had been reading buying advice and some road test about both vehicles…seeking more opinions from owners and other petrol heads.
Some background info on my recent cars...and their purpose. My daily driver for the last eleven years is a BMW 325i estate (e46) from 2004 (full M-technic with a recently fitted Bilstein B-12). I also have a Z4M roadster from 2006 as a second fun & sun car. My Z4M is modified with CSL wheels, AP racing brakes and Bilstein PSS-10 suspension for my monthly visit to the Nurburgring and occasional trackday. It's a great street and track car with a perfect dual purpose. Like you see; I tend to keep my cars for a really long time and the next one I will buy will also stay for many years to come.
I wanted to buy a 3the car; and I was thinking of buying something that was more exotic then my Z4M and more at home on track straight from the box.... I was thinking of a Cayman GT4, Boxster Spyder when the were still available and a used Lotus Exige V6 S as a cheaper alternative. But recently the plans changed again; I need to replace my daily driver estate first… Buying an extra track & fun car is getting moved back and the Z4M is also staying for the moment.
So another daily driver...? At the end of last year I wanted to replace my 325i estate (e46) with a e91 335i (N55) estate and started the search. But it was almost impossible to find a recent e91 335i with N55 engine, manual transmission, NO X-drive, M-pack, Pro GPS, Audio upgrade, etc... X-drive on a BMW is stupid in my opinion and I hated the automatic transmission on the 335i. So after a long search with almost 0 result I was thinking; I'm keeping my old 325i as a daily for some extra years and I will buy an extra sports car that's more hardcore then my Z4M. But like I said; do to circumstances that plan changed also recently…and it got me thinking of getting a rather more special daily driver.
To replace my daily driver I now have a bigger budget then last year. I'm now thinking of replacing my old 325i with a used Audi RS4 Avant B8 or a used Mercedes C63 AMG estate (facelift model from mid 2011 with the newer MCT transmission and updated interior). I never use the rear seats of my 325i touring...the rear seats are always folded down...so they have no purpose for me. I only need the booth space of an estate and I love the look of an estate/wagon. The older RS4 B7 also crossed my mind…but it has some engine and suspension issues and I don't know if it is a safe and reliable bet for a daily driver?
The RS4 or C63 AMG will be transformed to light utility vehicle...don't know the exact name in English or that this feature exists in the UK? It means the rears seats of an estate will be removed permanently and there is a big flat floor in the booth with no rear seats. It also means there is almost zero roadtax to pay on the vehicle, my company can reclaim al the VAT and every car expense is deductible in my company expenses. These financial and tax benefits compensate for the higher price of the car and the bigger gasoline budget. In my "car"live I always wanted to own a V8 with no turbo's...so if I want to do this then I can not wait for to many years to buy one. These engines are a dying breed
My daily work vehicle does around 11.000miles a year with 50% slow city traffic and 50% highways. But which car would you choose and why? Which one is the most reliable, most fun, better drivers car and better all round daily vehicle. Yes; I know....I should testdrive both of them
What is the realistic MPG of the RS4, C63 AMG...? Somewhat the same as a e90 M3 V8 I presume? I lived with a borrowed e90 M3 for a week and the MPG of the car is something I could live with. The e90 M3 is a nice and fun car...but it's not an estate and I did not like the M-DKG transmission in city traffic. I also found that the M3 V8 was only enjoyable when driving fast.
Costs?
Any idea about the estimated annual maintenance cost of the RS4 and C63 AMG (without insurance and tax)?
RS4 B8
Last week I did a testdrive with a RS4 B8... I rather liked the car. Without RS logo's it looked rather understated and low profile. I think the RS4 B8 looks awesome from outside and inside. I love the look! The optional blacked-out sport exhaust also sounds rather nice. Normally I don't like auto gearboxes; but the S-tronic box was feeling rather good...it was nice in auto mode and nice when shifting the gears myself. The shifts are fast enough and felt really good on public road. This car will be my daily driver and not a track car so it does not have to be the fastest shifter and it also will be my first car with an automated transmission... There is no other choice with the RS4 B8 and C63 AMG. If they had a manual version I would look for that one.
Suspension and dynamic steering?
The RS4 suspension felt ok in comfort mode (the other settings are to hard for the street). The dynamic steering was the biggest disappointment of the complete car. In comfort it was to soft and slow, automatic was not great and in dynamic it was to artificial heavy. I don't know if it's something you need to get used to...but the steering feel was the baddest thing of the RS4. Also almost every used RS4 I have found on the market has the dynamic steering option...and even so...who says the standard RS4 steering has a better steering feel? Opinions?
Handling?
The quattro handling was like the car was on rails and grip levels were awesome on a typical autumn day. This also means the car is a little boring and does not give you that many driver thrills or involvement when driving at normal speeds... My Z4M and 325i are more fun and lively when driving at the same speeds and they are slower cars then the RS4.
C63AMG estate
Normally I'm not a big fan of Mercedes. The only cars they have that I like or maybe consider owing (if I had the money) are SLS black series, AMG GTS and the previous C63 AMG estate (the model I'm now looking at). Honestly; a couple of years a go I could never think I would even consider buying a Mercedes. For me; a Mercedes was something for really old people
I never liked them and I always found them boring to drive and to look at... Personal opinion! But the set-up of this model of C63 AMG has something that somewhat appeals me and I like the look more then any other generation of "normal" Mercedes model.
Price
Another point the C63 AMG has over the Audi RS4 B8 is that the used C63 AMG estate car's are cheaper on the used car market then a similar Audi RS4 B8. Prices of C63 AMG are lower because the engine is a real tax killer and less people want to buy them these days. The all new C63 AMG model is already available on the market where that the new RS4 will probably be launched in 2017. I live in Belgium so I will probably one in my country or pay a visit to Germany to find the car I want.
Look
From a visual point of view I think the C63 estate looks good and I can live with it. It's a typical Mercedes image with a more sporty look. It's certainly not ugly, but IMO the RS4 B8 looks better and is more understated for my eyes. The RS4 looks awesome, the C63 looks good. The facelift interior of the 2012 model also looks ok. But there is more then looks and numbers that define a lovely car for me. That M156 6.2L engine is awesome, the sound it makes and the idea of that big engine in a daily car is amazing and out of this world. I also love the simplicity of the total C63 AMG package. But how does a C63 feel in normal traffic...is it an entertaining car at every speed? On paper it sound great and looks like a way less complex car then the RS4 with al his setting that never hit a real 100% sweet spot.
Transmission?
Biggest question I ask myself and also the biggest downside in online reviews is the transmission... How is this MCT 7-speed transmission from the facelift C63 (modelyear 2012)...? How is it in auto mode and how fast and intuitive is it when shifting the gears yourself?
Brakes?
Is there a big difference in braking power between the normal C63 brakes and the red colored brakes from the optional performance package? What is exactly the difference between those two brake set-ups and is it worth looking for a car with the PP for the brake difference? If I would buy a C63 AMG I would definitely want the optional LSD or if not on the car I will get an aftermarket quaife LSD. The Performance Package also increases the power…but 336 kW (457 hp) on a daily street car is already more then enough for me… More power from the PP is nice, but it does not sound as a must have to me.
Options?
Are there any must have options on the C63 AMG facelift model? For me personally it seems that I would like; Harman Kardon surround sound, front and rear parking sensors, auto lifting trunk, 19" wheels (looks nicer), full leather, COMAND system with Media interface, LSD (or aftermarket Quaife).
Is there an option to get the chrome window surrounds and front grill in black and not chrome? Some kind of shadowline package? The AMG Performance Suspension seems only useful on track so not for my street usage. It seems that both suspension have the same ride height?
Yes; I need to testdrive a C63 AMG to find some things out for myself and I will do that...but opinions and thought of other owners and/or petrolheads are already welcome
Some background info on my recent cars...and their purpose. My daily driver for the last eleven years is a BMW 325i estate (e46) from 2004 (full M-technic with a recently fitted Bilstein B-12). I also have a Z4M roadster from 2006 as a second fun & sun car. My Z4M is modified with CSL wheels, AP racing brakes and Bilstein PSS-10 suspension for my monthly visit to the Nurburgring and occasional trackday. It's a great street and track car with a perfect dual purpose. Like you see; I tend to keep my cars for a really long time and the next one I will buy will also stay for many years to come.
I wanted to buy a 3the car; and I was thinking of buying something that was more exotic then my Z4M and more at home on track straight from the box.... I was thinking of a Cayman GT4, Boxster Spyder when the were still available and a used Lotus Exige V6 S as a cheaper alternative. But recently the plans changed again; I need to replace my daily driver estate first… Buying an extra track & fun car is getting moved back and the Z4M is also staying for the moment.
So another daily driver...? At the end of last year I wanted to replace my 325i estate (e46) with a e91 335i (N55) estate and started the search. But it was almost impossible to find a recent e91 335i with N55 engine, manual transmission, NO X-drive, M-pack, Pro GPS, Audio upgrade, etc... X-drive on a BMW is stupid in my opinion and I hated the automatic transmission on the 335i. So after a long search with almost 0 result I was thinking; I'm keeping my old 325i as a daily for some extra years and I will buy an extra sports car that's more hardcore then my Z4M. But like I said; do to circumstances that plan changed also recently…and it got me thinking of getting a rather more special daily driver.
To replace my daily driver I now have a bigger budget then last year. I'm now thinking of replacing my old 325i with a used Audi RS4 Avant B8 or a used Mercedes C63 AMG estate (facelift model from mid 2011 with the newer MCT transmission and updated interior). I never use the rear seats of my 325i touring...the rear seats are always folded down...so they have no purpose for me. I only need the booth space of an estate and I love the look of an estate/wagon. The older RS4 B7 also crossed my mind…but it has some engine and suspension issues and I don't know if it is a safe and reliable bet for a daily driver?
The RS4 or C63 AMG will be transformed to light utility vehicle...don't know the exact name in English or that this feature exists in the UK? It means the rears seats of an estate will be removed permanently and there is a big flat floor in the booth with no rear seats. It also means there is almost zero roadtax to pay on the vehicle, my company can reclaim al the VAT and every car expense is deductible in my company expenses. These financial and tax benefits compensate for the higher price of the car and the bigger gasoline budget. In my "car"live I always wanted to own a V8 with no turbo's...so if I want to do this then I can not wait for to many years to buy one. These engines are a dying breed
My daily work vehicle does around 11.000miles a year with 50% slow city traffic and 50% highways. But which car would you choose and why? Which one is the most reliable, most fun, better drivers car and better all round daily vehicle. Yes; I know....I should testdrive both of them
What is the realistic MPG of the RS4, C63 AMG...? Somewhat the same as a e90 M3 V8 I presume? I lived with a borrowed e90 M3 for a week and the MPG of the car is something I could live with. The e90 M3 is a nice and fun car...but it's not an estate and I did not like the M-DKG transmission in city traffic. I also found that the M3 V8 was only enjoyable when driving fast.
Costs?
Any idea about the estimated annual maintenance cost of the RS4 and C63 AMG (without insurance and tax)?
RS4 B8
Last week I did a testdrive with a RS4 B8... I rather liked the car. Without RS logo's it looked rather understated and low profile. I think the RS4 B8 looks awesome from outside and inside. I love the look! The optional blacked-out sport exhaust also sounds rather nice. Normally I don't like auto gearboxes; but the S-tronic box was feeling rather good...it was nice in auto mode and nice when shifting the gears myself. The shifts are fast enough and felt really good on public road. This car will be my daily driver and not a track car so it does not have to be the fastest shifter and it also will be my first car with an automated transmission... There is no other choice with the RS4 B8 and C63 AMG. If they had a manual version I would look for that one.
Suspension and dynamic steering?
The RS4 suspension felt ok in comfort mode (the other settings are to hard for the street). The dynamic steering was the biggest disappointment of the complete car. In comfort it was to soft and slow, automatic was not great and in dynamic it was to artificial heavy. I don't know if it's something you need to get used to...but the steering feel was the baddest thing of the RS4. Also almost every used RS4 I have found on the market has the dynamic steering option...and even so...who says the standard RS4 steering has a better steering feel? Opinions?
Handling?
The quattro handling was like the car was on rails and grip levels were awesome on a typical autumn day. This also means the car is a little boring and does not give you that many driver thrills or involvement when driving at normal speeds... My Z4M and 325i are more fun and lively when driving at the same speeds and they are slower cars then the RS4.
C63AMG estate
Normally I'm not a big fan of Mercedes. The only cars they have that I like or maybe consider owing (if I had the money) are SLS black series, AMG GTS and the previous C63 AMG estate (the model I'm now looking at). Honestly; a couple of years a go I could never think I would even consider buying a Mercedes. For me; a Mercedes was something for really old people
I never liked them and I always found them boring to drive and to look at... Personal opinion! But the set-up of this model of C63 AMG has something that somewhat appeals me and I like the look more then any other generation of "normal" Mercedes model.
Price
Another point the C63 AMG has over the Audi RS4 B8 is that the used C63 AMG estate car's are cheaper on the used car market then a similar Audi RS4 B8. Prices of C63 AMG are lower because the engine is a real tax killer and less people want to buy them these days. The all new C63 AMG model is already available on the market where that the new RS4 will probably be launched in 2017. I live in Belgium so I will probably one in my country or pay a visit to Germany to find the car I want.
Look
From a visual point of view I think the C63 estate looks good and I can live with it. It's a typical Mercedes image with a more sporty look. It's certainly not ugly, but IMO the RS4 B8 looks better and is more understated for my eyes. The RS4 looks awesome, the C63 looks good. The facelift interior of the 2012 model also looks ok. But there is more then looks and numbers that define a lovely car for me. That M156 6.2L engine is awesome, the sound it makes and the idea of that big engine in a daily car is amazing and out of this world. I also love the simplicity of the total C63 AMG package. But how does a C63 feel in normal traffic...is it an entertaining car at every speed? On paper it sound great and looks like a way less complex car then the RS4 with al his setting that never hit a real 100% sweet spot.
Transmission?
Biggest question I ask myself and also the biggest downside in online reviews is the transmission... How is this MCT 7-speed transmission from the facelift C63 (modelyear 2012)...? How is it in auto mode and how fast and intuitive is it when shifting the gears yourself?
Brakes?
Is there a big difference in braking power between the normal C63 brakes and the red colored brakes from the optional performance package? What is exactly the difference between those two brake set-ups and is it worth looking for a car with the PP for the brake difference? If I would buy a C63 AMG I would definitely want the optional LSD or if not on the car I will get an aftermarket quaife LSD. The Performance Package also increases the power…but 336 kW (457 hp) on a daily street car is already more then enough for me… More power from the PP is nice, but it does not sound as a must have to me.
Options?
Are there any must have options on the C63 AMG facelift model? For me personally it seems that I would like; Harman Kardon surround sound, front and rear parking sensors, auto lifting trunk, 19" wheels (looks nicer), full leather, COMAND system with Media interface, LSD (or aftermarket Quaife).
Is there an option to get the chrome window surrounds and front grill in black and not chrome? Some kind of shadowline package? The AMG Performance Suspension seems only useful on track so not for my street usage. It seems that both suspension have the same ride height?
Yes; I need to testdrive a C63 AMG to find some things out for myself and I will do that...but opinions and thought of other owners and/or petrolheads are already welcome
Edited by Franzino on Tuesday 17th November 14:10
First watch this video http://youtu.be/4HYdVXmYA-w and then decide if you agree with Chris Harris.
For me it comes down to 1) do you need the Quattro traction advantage and 2) do you want a torque rich or revvy engine?
I would be tempted by the facelift C63 (with winter wheels) if Quattro wasn't needed.
For me it comes down to 1) do you need the Quattro traction advantage and 2) do you want a torque rich or revvy engine?
I would be tempted by the facelift C63 (with winter wheels) if Quattro wasn't needed.
rassi said:
First watch this video http://youtu.be/4HYdVXmYA-w and then decide if you agree with Chris Harris.
For me it comes down to 1) do you need the Quattro traction advantage and 2) do you want a torque rich or revvy engine?
I would be tempted by the facelift C63 (with winter wheels) if Quattro wasn't needed.
I never had a quattro…so is it needed? Not really for me……but it can be nice to have. In winter times my 325i and Z4M drive with smaller winter wheel (+ winter tyres). Neve had any issues, but with typical Belgium weather it sounds nice to have quattro advantage…and it's also something completely different then my other cars. Still; if a C63 is more fun and has more drivers feel 75% of the time then this can also be an advantage…. Hopefully "the soon to come" test-drive with the C63 will make the choice a little easier. Both have their plus and minus….biggest minus so far is the steering feel on the RS4.For me it comes down to 1) do you need the Quattro traction advantage and 2) do you want a torque rich or revvy engine?
I would be tempted by the facelift C63 (with winter wheels) if Quattro wasn't needed.
Not sure you would ever consider an RS4 or C63 as a track car, by their very nature they combine performance and fun (subjectively) with a degree of practicality. The RS is a good all rounder, not perfect but the engine has real character and is well suited to the DSG box, quattro is great for me because I live in the sticks, build quality is good but not exceptional, the performance is fine for UK roads and it's great A to B. I have got used to the steering and it is not such a big deal, sometimes I think we are led by the journo's a bit too much, in everyday use it offers enough feel and feedback, it's no 911 but then I can't get all my gear in a 911.
I really like the C63, had a day in one and in my opinion a better drive and in the dry super quick, but it lacks quattro and i don't like the looks at all, so I won't buy one. Your choice, both great motors and if you like the looks of the Merc and don't need 4WD I know what I would do.
I really like the C63, had a day in one and in my opinion a better drive and in the dry super quick, but it lacks quattro and i don't like the looks at all, so I won't buy one. Your choice, both great motors and if you like the looks of the Merc and don't need 4WD I know what I would do.
Blue62 said:
Not sure you would ever consider an RS4 or C63 as a track car, by their very nature they combine performance and fun (subjectively) with a degree of practicality.
No intention to go on track with any of these cars. IMO the RS4, C63 are to heavy. The brakes are underpowered and will eventually overcook when going full blast on a track. I also have a Z4M roadster from 2006 as a second fun & sun car. My Z4M is modified with CSL wheels, AP racing brakes and Bilstein PSS-10 suspension for my monthly visit to the Nurburgring and occasional trackday. No way a RS4 or C63 can better the track fun I have in my Z4M. Driving a standard C63 or RS4 the way I do on track with my Z4M will only limit my fun and is a step down in braking and handling…
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