Are MK 4 Golfs really that bad? Can you improve them?
Discussion
Hi guys (or girls)
New to the forum so sorry if i have posted under the wrong category.
I have recently turned 17 passed and have spent all my savings on a Mk 4 golf 1.6 2002 for which i paid 900 pounds for. (yes i am aware of how much insurance is the cheapest quote i have is with Hastings direct and is 1250)
However i have heard/experienced only negative things about the handling of the Mk 4 golf .
So i am planning on doing something to improve the handling characteristics of the car. iv heard good things about Anti roll bars but as the car is front wheel drive would i be better of with only a rear arb? how thick is thick enough. or are up rated dampers a better way to go about if albeit at a higher cost.It is probably worth mentioning that my car has 14" steel wheels with 80 /175 tires atm which is definitly not helping any recommendations for new wheel/tire sizes or even if better tires are a better option. Im loath to lower the car as i often drive down some pretty rough farm tracks. i have a maximum budget of about 800 for mods and yes i am aware this will increase my insurance premium.
Iam not interested in hearing things like " oh get a whatever " i have this car not a mx5 or whatever. or " that is too big an engine for a young driver" ect ect (its gutless for reference)
thanks
james
New to the forum so sorry if i have posted under the wrong category.
I have recently turned 17 passed and have spent all my savings on a Mk 4 golf 1.6 2002 for which i paid 900 pounds for. (yes i am aware of how much insurance is the cheapest quote i have is with Hastings direct and is 1250)
However i have heard/experienced only negative things about the handling of the Mk 4 golf .
So i am planning on doing something to improve the handling characteristics of the car. iv heard good things about Anti roll bars but as the car is front wheel drive would i be better of with only a rear arb? how thick is thick enough. or are up rated dampers a better way to go about if albeit at a higher cost.It is probably worth mentioning that my car has 14" steel wheels with 80 /175 tires atm which is definitly not helping any recommendations for new wheel/tire sizes or even if better tires are a better option. Im loath to lower the car as i often drive down some pretty rough farm tracks. i have a maximum budget of about 800 for mods and yes i am aware this will increase my insurance premium.
Iam not interested in hearing things like " oh get a whatever " i have this car not a mx5 or whatever. or " that is too big an engine for a young driver" ect ect (its gutless for reference)
thanks
james
It is simply not worth modifying a dull car like an old Golf Mk IV or paying the excess insurance that will follow from banal modifications.
Do your time, build up your NCB then buy a better car.
Nobody will actually want your modified Golf, when/if you can you sell it because mods add to insurance premiums which destroys the point of bangernomics.
Do your time, build up your NCB then buy a better car.
Nobody will actually want your modified Golf, when/if you can you sell it because mods add to insurance premiums which destroys the point of bangernomics.
It sounds like you're planning to upgrade on the basis of other people's opinions rather than your own experience of the car. I'd start by driving the car for a couple of months and replace stuff that's worn out to original spec where needed; also make sure you're on reasonable tyres in decent condition.
Also keep some budget for fixing stuff that breaks (it's a 16 year old car - things will break and wear out).
Also keep some budget for fixing stuff that breaks (it's a 16 year old car - things will break and wear out).
The deterioration of the dampers, bushes etc will probably have had a much bigger negative effect on the handling over the years.
If your serious, a suspension overhaul would help, and you wouldnt have to declare anything
Decent pad material and new fluid.
Decent tyres.
Then, stop worrying about the car having a 'reputation' and enjoy the freedom it gives. One thing I would say, do think about your driving and be self critical. I often think back these days about any given situation and think how I could have done it better, from braking to lines to others bad driving. Wish I had done more of it when i was 17-18.
And work on your driving. Im still learning at 50+, still fluff a toe&heel. And learn positioning, amazing how 6" difference in line can mean much smoother and faster and often safer pace.
If your serious, a suspension overhaul would help, and you wouldnt have to declare anything
Decent pad material and new fluid.
Decent tyres.
Then, stop worrying about the car having a 'reputation' and enjoy the freedom it gives. One thing I would say, do think about your driving and be self critical. I often think back these days about any given situation and think how I could have done it better, from braking to lines to others bad driving. Wish I had done more of it when i was 17-18.
And work on your driving. Im still learning at 50+, still fluff a toe&heel. And learn positioning, amazing how 6" difference in line can mean much smoother and faster and often safer pace.
So it seems like the general opinion is to stick with it stock for a month or two then probably give it a bit of a refresh in the suspension area e.g bushings ext all stock so no insurance price hike! Then making sure that it is in tip top working order all the time.
Thanks for the advice much appreciated
james
Thanks for the advice much appreciated
james
I had one once. I refreshed the worn out suspension with eibach springs, bilstein b4 shocks and TT bushes. It transformed the car.
But, only worth doing if it needs it as I guess the cost of parts / labour / geometry alignment would be over two thirds the price of the car.
Better of spending as little on it as possible, saving up some no claims and spending the cash on a nice motor later on would be a better idea.
One thing you can do is get a better stereo (say a second hand Alpine off ebay) for a few quid with Bluetooth so you can listen to your tunes. They have std isofix connections on mk4 wiring, so it's easy to install and the sound of the std stereo is terrible.
But, only worth doing if it needs it as I guess the cost of parts / labour / geometry alignment would be over two thirds the price of the car.
Better of spending as little on it as possible, saving up some no claims and spending the cash on a nice motor later on would be a better idea.
One thing you can do is get a better stereo (say a second hand Alpine off ebay) for a few quid with Bluetooth so you can listen to your tunes. They have std isofix connections on mk4 wiring, so it's easy to install and the sound of the std stereo is terrible.
Gary C said:
stichill99 said:
I disagree entirely with the above. I had a 110 hp TDi and the best improvement I made to the car was Bilstein Shockers and Eibach springs. It went round corners like a go kart after.
which is finebut if he wants to avoid declaring anything
The reason the mk4 is/was slated was in 1998 it was up against the new Focus, new Astra and the 306. All 3 had better chassis dynamics than the Golf. The Focus in particular gaining most praise with its independent rear suspension.
In your situation I would get new dampers, and some decent tyres if its on budgets.
As mentioned things like brake fluid should be looked at, often gets overlooked on an older car.
If you don’t want to fit alloys, then maybe look to get 15” steelies?
Anyway, welcome to PH. Everyone loves tinkering with their first car, don’t they? You doing the work DIY ?
In your situation I would get new dampers, and some decent tyres if its on budgets.
As mentioned things like brake fluid should be looked at, often gets overlooked on an older car.
If you don’t want to fit alloys, then maybe look to get 15” steelies?
Anyway, welcome to PH. Everyone loves tinkering with their first car, don’t they? You doing the work DIY ?
I've had mark 1, 2, 4 , and 5 Golfs. over the years, maybe my priorities are different from some people, but the mk4 was the best (150bhp gttd1) which I did 202000 miles in 10 years before I sold it to my mate who did another 30000 over 4 years.
Mk 1 handled well but was underpowered and rusted to death at 6 years old.
Mk 2 was a bit more solid but slower to go, stop, and turn.
Mk 5 was the most unreliable car I've ever owned(until I traded it in for a Passat which was worse).
It would take a lot to persuade me to buy another VW unless I could buy my old mk4 brand new again.
Mk 1 handled well but was underpowered and rusted to death at 6 years old.
Mk 2 was a bit more solid but slower to go, stop, and turn.
Mk 5 was the most unreliable car I've ever owned(until I traded it in for a Passat which was worse).
It would take a lot to persuade me to buy another VW unless I could buy my old mk4 brand new again.
In your situation, I'd sell it and buy a Focus of the same age.
You'll end up with a much better handling car for less money than it would cost to do the mods.
(And this is coming from someone that had four MKIV Golfs - a 1998 non-turbo GTi, a '99 turbo GTi, a 2003 150 GT TDi and a 2000 V5.)
The first three were company cars and before we bought the V5 as a private vehicle, we test drove a Focus. It was like night and day in terms of handling (and it wasn't an ST or anything like that). But my wife's a badge snob and said she couldn't have a Ford on the drive. For anyone that actually likes driving however, the Focus is a much better car.
You'll end up with a much better handling car for less money than it would cost to do the mods.
(And this is coming from someone that had four MKIV Golfs - a 1998 non-turbo GTi, a '99 turbo GTi, a 2003 150 GT TDi and a 2000 V5.)
The first three were company cars and before we bought the V5 as a private vehicle, we test drove a Focus. It was like night and day in terms of handling (and it wasn't an ST or anything like that). But my wife's a badge snob and said she couldn't have a Ford on the drive. For anyone that actually likes driving however, the Focus is a much better car.
Between my wife and I we’ve had 4 MK4 Golfs, and loved them all. We had three 1.8T GTIs and one 1.9 GT TDI.
I’ve often modified cars, but kept it very subtle and within the OEM spectrum. Painted calipers, 20mm lower springs, bigger alloys etc etc. But as stated above, you will probably will not get your money back, and perhaps you should save that Money to put towards your next car, or even unexpected repairs of this one. Or, a house deposit. All very boring, sorry!
I’ve often modified cars, but kept it very subtle and within the OEM spectrum. Painted calipers, 20mm lower springs, bigger alloys etc etc. But as stated above, you will probably will not get your money back, and perhaps you should save that Money to put towards your next car, or even unexpected repairs of this one. Or, a house deposit. All very boring, sorry!
I bought a new MK4 Golf V5 and then 'upgraded' it with stiffer springs. All that did was to turn an average handling car into a uncomfortable average handling car.
I think the best way to improve the car is to refresh things that might be tired like tyres, dampers, bushes etc.
I find one of the best mods is a drivers seats that locks you in place, so you can better feel what the car is doing and concentrate on driving rather than try to stay in the seat when cornering.
I think the best way to improve the car is to refresh things that might be tired like tyres, dampers, bushes etc.
I find one of the best mods is a drivers seats that locks you in place, so you can better feel what the car is doing and concentrate on driving rather than try to stay in the seat when cornering.
jamez173 said:
So it seems like the general opinion is to stick with it stock for a month or two then probably give it a bit of a refresh in the suspension area e.g bushings ext all stock so no insurance price hike! Then making sure that it is in tip top working order all the time.
Thanks for the advice much appreciated
james
If the shocks have never been replaced, this would be a good starting point.Thanks for the advice much appreciated
james
New (OE stock) shocks (and possibly even springs) would probably transform the car you have now.
I've previously owned both a MK4 GTi (1.8T) and a Bora V5 (same chassis) and I wouldn't say the handling was spectacularly incompetent.
Compared to a 1,8T Skoda estate I once owned - now the handling on that.....
Oh, and put decent tyres on it, especially if the existing tyres are mismatched or just generally old.
Ahbefive said:
Gary C said:
stichill99 said:
I disagree entirely with the above. I had a 110 hp TDi and the best improvement I made to the car was Bilstein Shockers and Eibach springs. It went round corners like a go kart after.
which is finebut if he wants to avoid declaring anything
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