Advice required - what should I do next? VW Touran / fault
Discussion
Hi all, new user here and I wasn't sure what forum to post in so forgive me if I'm not posting in the best one.
I've got a potentially very expensive situation with my VW Touran and looking for some sensible advice from anyone who knows more than I do on what's best to do next.
The issue is that the panoramic sunroof on our VW Touran (under 3 years old, still in warranty) is leaking like a sieve and £510 into investigating the issue, our local VW main dealer is saying they need to do £00s more in work just to confirm the fault.
The longer explanation is this:
- Car bought as dealer demonstrated Jan 2016 from dealer in North West. Almost immediately identified issue with speaker on drivers door pillar "crackling" intermittently. With hindsight that probably due to occasional water ingress. Along with other faults investigated by our local VW Dealer (London) in March 2016 (under the "das auto warranty) with no root cause found.
- Car has been serviced regularly by the same London dealer since then - and only by then. All the service stamps are up to date.
- The car has been smelling damp on and off for a few weeks. 3 weeks ago the floor on the drivers side was damp but no obvious sign of any water ingress behind the bulkhead and nothing after that.
- Last week the car was parked in torrential rain and the drivers side carpet was literally soaking wet. After looking very carefully I noticed small water droplets on the dashboard and then working upwards realised the water had soaked the head lining where the plastic trim meets the softer trim.
I then searched online and found loads of complaints about VW panoramic sunroofs (which ours has) and a common fault with the "union" fitting - plastic joint where the drain for the sunroof meets the drain tube that goes down the drivers door pillar. The common fault is that the hose in the union joint shrinks over time and then allows the water to run THROUGH and AROUND the fitting into the head lining.
I peeled back the roof lining and it was wet inside. Per some of the videos, I poured a small amount of water into the right hand side drain hole (there was no debris or anything) and the water not only came out of the drain exit underneath the car but also ran over my hand between the metal roof and inner roof lining.
I checked the sunroof was closed properly and left it and the floor was even wetter after more rain.
I then sealed up all the sunroof joins using insulating tape, drove 7 hours in the pouring rain and no further water came in.
The VW London dealer has inspected the problem. They told me they can only do a water pressure test to confirm the problem (required by VW) as if any warranty work is required VW require them to do that first. The cost of this to me is £450+VAT even though I've already proven the problem with the glass of water into the drain hole.
Today they have phoned several times and told me the following:
First call: The drain hose is blocked and they need to do another two hours labour to take the sunroof out to finish the diagnosis. I challenged this on the basis of the glass of water test.
Second call: they called to say the drain hose is completely blocked - and that when the service department opened the "valve at the bottom" lots of water came out. I challenged this with:
1. Why would there be a valve / why would it be shut?
2. How come the water came out of the drain hose last week when I tried it?
3. How does that it explain the water coming underneath the sunroof when it's shut and water is poured on from the outside - i.e. even if the pipe is blocked how would the water get round the fitting underneath the sunroof.
Third call: apparently it's my fault and it should have been serviced every two years and therefore there's no warranty cover.
They still can't give answers to any of my questions and when I asked how I'm supposed to it needs "servicing" they couldn't tell me. There's nothing to tell me this as the consumer, nothing in the service book and only they have serviced it per the schedule but they haven't done it or told me it needs doing (they have told me they have to do things like aircon refresh though). And not only have they not told me, but I was also told they don't tell other customers it needs doing - this from one of the largest VW dealerships in Europe.
So I'm £510 down on a pointless diagnostic test, looking at another £300 for "diagnostics" and it feels like I've been told a load of absolute bobbins.
What should I be doing here?
I've got a potentially very expensive situation with my VW Touran and looking for some sensible advice from anyone who knows more than I do on what's best to do next.
The issue is that the panoramic sunroof on our VW Touran (under 3 years old, still in warranty) is leaking like a sieve and £510 into investigating the issue, our local VW main dealer is saying they need to do £00s more in work just to confirm the fault.
The longer explanation is this:
- Car bought as dealer demonstrated Jan 2016 from dealer in North West. Almost immediately identified issue with speaker on drivers door pillar "crackling" intermittently. With hindsight that probably due to occasional water ingress. Along with other faults investigated by our local VW Dealer (London) in March 2016 (under the "das auto warranty) with no root cause found.
- Car has been serviced regularly by the same London dealer since then - and only by then. All the service stamps are up to date.
- The car has been smelling damp on and off for a few weeks. 3 weeks ago the floor on the drivers side was damp but no obvious sign of any water ingress behind the bulkhead and nothing after that.
- Last week the car was parked in torrential rain and the drivers side carpet was literally soaking wet. After looking very carefully I noticed small water droplets on the dashboard and then working upwards realised the water had soaked the head lining where the plastic trim meets the softer trim.
I then searched online and found loads of complaints about VW panoramic sunroofs (which ours has) and a common fault with the "union" fitting - plastic joint where the drain for the sunroof meets the drain tube that goes down the drivers door pillar. The common fault is that the hose in the union joint shrinks over time and then allows the water to run THROUGH and AROUND the fitting into the head lining.
I peeled back the roof lining and it was wet inside. Per some of the videos, I poured a small amount of water into the right hand side drain hole (there was no debris or anything) and the water not only came out of the drain exit underneath the car but also ran over my hand between the metal roof and inner roof lining.
I checked the sunroof was closed properly and left it and the floor was even wetter after more rain.
I then sealed up all the sunroof joins using insulating tape, drove 7 hours in the pouring rain and no further water came in.
The VW London dealer has inspected the problem. They told me they can only do a water pressure test to confirm the problem (required by VW) as if any warranty work is required VW require them to do that first. The cost of this to me is £450+VAT even though I've already proven the problem with the glass of water into the drain hole.
Today they have phoned several times and told me the following:
First call: The drain hose is blocked and they need to do another two hours labour to take the sunroof out to finish the diagnosis. I challenged this on the basis of the glass of water test.
Second call: they called to say the drain hose is completely blocked - and that when the service department opened the "valve at the bottom" lots of water came out. I challenged this with:
1. Why would there be a valve / why would it be shut?
2. How come the water came out of the drain hose last week when I tried it?
3. How does that it explain the water coming underneath the sunroof when it's shut and water is poured on from the outside - i.e. even if the pipe is blocked how would the water get round the fitting underneath the sunroof.
Third call: apparently it's my fault and it should have been serviced every two years and therefore there's no warranty cover.
They still can't give answers to any of my questions and when I asked how I'm supposed to it needs "servicing" they couldn't tell me. There's nothing to tell me this as the consumer, nothing in the service book and only they have serviced it per the schedule but they haven't done it or told me it needs doing (they have told me they have to do things like aircon refresh though). And not only have they not told me, but I was also told they don't tell other customers it needs doing - this from one of the largest VW dealerships in Europe.
So I'm £510 down on a pointless diagnostic test, looking at another £300 for "diagnostics" and it feels like I've been told a load of absolute bobbins.
What should I be doing here?
Maybe best to just get some epoxy or similar and fix it yourself, it looks fairly simple:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOvMUKAAcJk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOvMUKAAcJk
Totally agree with jonny.
Utter horse s
t regarding charging for investigation.
If it's under 3 years old or bought from a main dealer then drop it off and tell them to phone you once it's fixed under warranty. There is no other part of the discussion.
op find a different dealer, stick a complaint to VW regarding underhanded warranty charges when it should be free and ask for your money back.
They should not be charging you for checking the fault.
Utter horse s
t regarding charging for investigation. If it's under 3 years old or bought from a main dealer then drop it off and tell them to phone you once it's fixed under warranty. There is no other part of the discussion.
op find a different dealer, stick a complaint to VW regarding underhanded warranty charges when it should be free and ask for your money back.
They should not be charging you for checking the fault.
Edited by Chamon_Lee on Friday 28th September 01:28
Chamon_Lee said:
Totally agree with jonny.
Utter horse st regarding charging for investigation.
If it's under 3 years old or bought from a main dealer then drop it off and tell them to phone you once it's fixed under warranty. There is no other part of the discussion.
op find a different dealer, stick a complaint to VW regarding underhanded warranty charges when it should be free and ask for your money back.
They should not be charging you for checking the fault.
Not really. Utter horse s
t regarding charging for investigation. If it's under 3 years old or bought from a main dealer then drop it off and tell them to phone you once it's fixed under warranty. There is no other part of the discussion.
op find a different dealer, stick a complaint to VW regarding underhanded warranty charges when it should be free and ask for your money back.
They should not be charging you for checking the fault.
Edited by Chamon_Lee on Friday 28th September 01:28
All work is chargeable by the FRANCHISE dealer until a fault is found and said fault is verified as being a warranty concern and then VW may step in and foot the bill.
Why should the dealer spend potentially hours investigating a concern that may well end up not being warranty... who pays their time for all those hours?
Until the dealer finds the fault, as far as they (and we) know the car may have been in an accident or other mitigating circumstances that means that warranty won't foot the bill.
I dear say if the issue is found to be a warranty concern, the OP may be in a position to pursue VW for some sort of refund from for any monies paid thus far. Granted, maybe an extreme view but end of the day the dealer needs paid for their time one way or another.
I could bore you with countless stories of "warranty" issues being anything but... including cups of coffee spilled in to BCM units, ply-lined vans with 3" wood screws through the fuel tank, a tampon holder jamming a centre console lid, badly repaired accident damaged cars and a engine failure that was due to a mouse eating a coolant hose bleed nipple.
All were within manufacturers, all received a hefty bill...
Just saying.
Davie said:
Chamon_Lee said:
Totally agree with jonny.
Utter horse st regarding charging for investigation.
If it's under 3 years old or bought from a main dealer then drop it off and tell them to phone you once it's fixed under warranty. There is no other part of the discussion.
op find a different dealer, stick a complaint to VW regarding underhanded warranty charges when it should be free and ask for your money back.
They should not be charging you for checking the fault.
Not really. Utter horse s
t regarding charging for investigation. If it's under 3 years old or bought from a main dealer then drop it off and tell them to phone you once it's fixed under warranty. There is no other part of the discussion.
op find a different dealer, stick a complaint to VW regarding underhanded warranty charges when it should be free and ask for your money back.
They should not be charging you for checking the fault.
Edited by Chamon_Lee on Friday 28th September 01:28
All work is chargeable by the FRANCHISE dealer until a fault is found and said fault is verified as being a warranty concern and then VW may step in and foot the bill.
Why should the dealer spend potentially hours investigating a concern that may well end up not being warranty... who pays their time for all those hours?
Until the dealer finds the fault, as far as they (and we) know the car may have been in an accident or other mitigating circumstances that means that warranty won't foot the bill.
I dear say if the issue is found to be a warranty concern, the OP may be in a position to pursue VW for some sort of refund from for any monies paid thus far. Granted, maybe an extreme view but end of the day the dealer needs paid for their time one way or another.
I could bore you with countless stories of "warranty" issues being anything but... including cups of coffee spilled in to BCM units, ply-lined vans with 3" wood screws through the fuel tank, a tampon holder jamming a centre console lid, badly repaired accident damaged cars and a engine failure that was due to a mouse eating a coolant hose bleed nipple.
All were within manufacturers, all received a hefty bill...
Just saying.
Touranaran said:
First call: The drain hose is blocked and they need to do another two hours labour to take the sunroof out to finish the diagnosis. I challenged this on the basis of the glass of water test.
I'd have thought that if your glass of water test had all of the water draining away quickly into the drain hole, and not sitting in a puddle in the "gutter" around the drain hole for a while, then that proves that a blocked hose isn't causing the problem.Touranaran said:
I then searched online and found loads of complaints about VW panoramic sunroofs (which ours has) and a common fault with the "union" fitting - plastic joint where the drain for the sunroof meets the drain tube that goes down the drivers door pillar. The common fault is that the hose in the union joint shrinks over time and then allows the water to run THROUGH and AROUND the fitting into the head lining.
I peeled back the roof lining and it was wet inside. Per some of the videos, I poured a small amount of water into the right hand side drain hole (there was no debris or anything) and the water not only came out of the drain exit underneath the car but also ran over my hand between the metal roof and inner roof lining.
The fact that water came out of the drain underneath suggests that the drain hose is OK (but I guess if that if it was leaking or overflowing, then water might be running down the A pillar and making its way out underneath as well as getting the interior wet.I peeled back the roof lining and it was wet inside. Per some of the videos, I poured a small amount of water into the right hand side drain hole (there was no debris or anything) and the water not only came out of the drain exit underneath the car but also ran over my hand between the metal roof and inner roof lining.
Touranaran said:
Second call: they called to say the drain hose is completely blocked - and that when the service department opened the "valve at the bottom" lots of water came out. I challenged this with:
1. Why would there be a valve / why would it be shut?
There's often a kind of 1-way valve at the bottom of the drain hose to stop insects and dirt getting in and blocking it. That can get stuck shut and cause problems (a friend's mk4 Golf had a damp headlining because of that). If that's the problem, though, then simply unblocking that valve is the solution...1. Why would there be a valve / why would it be shut?
Touranaran said:
2. How come the water came out of the drain hose last week when I tried it?
Did you definitely see water coming out of the drain hose end/valve, or just out of a drain hole under the car somewhere? I don't know where the drain hose valve would be - on the mk4 Golf it was on the A pillar near the lower door hinge, visible when the door was open. It might well not be there on other cars though, and that was just a small tilt-and-slide so could be completely different.Touranaran said:
3. How does that it explain the water coming underneath the sunroof when it's shut and water is poured on from the outside - i.e. even if the pipe is blocked how would the water get round the fitting underneath the sunroof.
Sunroofs aren't designed to have a 100% seal on the edges - the felt or rubber seal keeps the bulk of the water flowing off the roof and not into the car, but some is planned to leak/seep through. That's why there's then a gutter all around the opening and drain holes in each corner (each corner being important as you might have parked on a slope. If the pipe is blocked then the water which gets through fills the gutter and leaks into the car's interior instead of flowing away. I'm not saying that that's your problem, though - you're leaking connection theory sounds perfectly plausible.Touranaran said:
Third call: apparently it's my fault and it should have been serviced every two years and therefore there's no warranty cover.
Do they mean that the sunroof should have had maintenance which it hadn't had, or that the whole car hasn't had an official service as per schedule? If the car's service history isn't up to scratch then that might cause warranty issues - if, for example, the service schedule includes checking that the drain holes are clear every couple of years and yours has missed that, then they could argue that it's no longer the warranty's problem that they've become badly blocked.If, on the other hand, it's a leaking joint then I don't see what effect servicing could have on that at all, and I personally would hope they'd cover it even if the service history wasn't up to scratch. I'm not sure of the legal situation there, though.
Not that this helps at all but Audi told me something similar a few years back:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Hello, it appears we have the same problem described above with our Touran. Unfortunately I am out of the country with work, my wife took the car to our local dealership for them to investigate water in the drivers footwell. They are saying its not covered by the warranty and the bill is currently £450ish, with no firm final cost quoted. The car is a 1.6 family SE, 16 reg with extended warranty.
Did you get the fault covered by warranty in the end?
Did you get the fault covered by warranty in the end?
Davie said:
Why should the dealer spend potentially hours investigating a concern that may well end up not being warranty... who pays their time for all those hours?
Because the car is (or was as this was a couple of years ago) under warranty? Once the fault is found the dealer then asks the customer to pay for it if it's not a warranty issue, just the same as if I take my car to any garage for work - once it's done they give me the bill or I don't get the car back.If it's a fairly new car and it's leaking from the sunroof then that is highly likely to be a warranty issue - it's not like you can really treat a sunroof badly - you press the button, it opens, press again and it closes. Maybe possible if you've been using the car as a party Limo in Newcastle....
I've only had one car from new , a Honda, which had a stalling issue and required either a new ECU or some update, I don't recall which. Honda didn't ask us to pay for the work to find the fault, and if they had then I would have been mightily pissed off.
JimSuperSix said:
Because the car is (or was as this was a couple of years ago) under warranty? Once the fault is found the dealer then asks the customer to pay for it if it's not a warranty issue, just the same as if I take my car to any garage for work - once it's done they give me the bill or I don't get the car back.
If it's a fairly new car and it's leaking from the sunroof then that is highly likely to be a warranty issue - it's not like you can really treat a sunroof badly - you press the button, it opens, press again and it closes. Maybe possible if you've been using the car as a party Limo in Newcastle....
I've only had one car from new , a Honda, which had a stalling issue and required either a new ECU or some update, I don't recall which. Honda didn't ask us to pay for the work to find the fault, and if they had then I would have been mightily pissed off.
With regards to Honda, if the car is bought new you don’t pay for investigation for warranty repair. If the car is bought used from a Honda dealer, you do have to pay the investigation fee, even if the repair is done under warranty. I quizzed Listers Honda on this at length and that’s the policy. I paid £120, twice, for two separate issues to be rectified under warranty. Honda covered over £2500 in warranty work and I paid £240 for investigation, to Listers.If it's a fairly new car and it's leaking from the sunroof then that is highly likely to be a warranty issue - it's not like you can really treat a sunroof badly - you press the button, it opens, press again and it closes. Maybe possible if you've been using the car as a party Limo in Newcastle....
I've only had one car from new , a Honda, which had a stalling issue and required either a new ECU or some update, I don't recall which. Honda didn't ask us to pay for the work to find the fault, and if they had then I would have been mightily pissed off.
Unfortunately it is standard practice for many marques now.
Novexx said:
JimSuperSix said:
once it's done they give me the bill or I don't get the car back
Witholding vehicle under such cirumstances in a no no.https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/legal/car-rep...
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-...
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