Used Q7 unfit for purpose with numerous issues
Discussion
Hi all, posting here in hope of some insights/opinions on my situation.
I purchased an Approved Used 13 plate Q7 from a dealer in June 2018. The car had 38k miles on it when I bought it and I've done c.12k miles since then, now laying just over 50k. For reference, I paid £29,500. Over the course of my 9 months of ownership (8 months if you consider it's been in the shop for the past few weeks) I've had nothing but problems with it that have detracted from the 'quality' marker applied to these vehicles by Audi UK and the dealing chain. Initial oversights from the dealership included (bare in mind these are things meant to be covered by their 'exacting' checklist):
More recent issues:
A dying dashboard
Come December, we started to notice flickering on the dashboard. The illuminations behind the 80-120 range on the speedo were flickering intermittently and at some points would die altogether at some points but then come back. Car booked into shop, couldn't reproduced the problem, bring it back in a month they said. In the meantime the illuminations behind the second half of the rev counter have given up the ghost too. I've got photographic and video evidence for all of this. Meant to go back into the garage a month later, however, it's been in for other issues that I'll get onto that sucked up the workshop time. So probably needs a new dashboard, but still no word on that.
Crank shaft rear main seal leak
The car actually went into the shop for the next problem I'll describe, however when they got it in they discovered this. Turns out the car had spewed out most of its engine oil but not to the point of being empty enough to set off the warning light. Didn't have a clue on this one, warranty have repaired it and labour alone has totaled £1.8k.
Corroded transmission oil pipe
This is the big'un and the source of much frustration at the moment. It appears that the transmission fluid pipe around the cooler has corroded to the point where it has also spewed out pretty much all its transmission fluid. Prior to going into the shop the car had been parked up for pretty much 2 weeks and the first thing I knew about it was going out and the car having a hard time getting into gear. It limped down to the local garage to get it up to see what was going on - nothing more, just a look - and was told the transmission fluid had leaked. From there, the car was taken to the local Audi dealer on a low loader; that was 2 weeks ago now. My local dealer is concerned about the impact this could all have had on the gearbox as the transmission fluid was so low (great that the car doesn't give you any warning about this, nor is the level checkable by a non-mechanic) and warranty has refused to cover any repairs as they don't cover corrosion, which has kicked off a big hoo-hah between them, warranty, and the selling dealer.
The selling dealer have said they wouldn't have been able to check the condition of the pipe because of its location in the engine, however I'm finding it hard to believe a pipe has gone from serviceable condition to corroded to the point of failure in 9 months without it having been in a poor condition in the first place. I've got an open complaint with the Audi UK Executive Office at the moment who are liaising with the selling garage (I called them up when I initially knew there was an issue, of course they were rude, obstructive and didn't want to know) as I don't think I should have to pay for any of this - yes it's corrosion, but it's still the failure of a manufacturer fitted part that should have been checked when the car was purchased; the Audi 'exacting standard' checklist is meant to give the car a thorough check over and if such a critical component isn't viewable without some work then the checks are quite clearly inadequate.
So AFAIK my options are:
Questions for anyone who's got this far:
I purchased an Approved Used 13 plate Q7 from a dealer in June 2018. The car had 38k miles on it when I bought it and I've done c.12k miles since then, now laying just over 50k. For reference, I paid £29,500. Over the course of my 9 months of ownership (8 months if you consider it's been in the shop for the past few weeks) I've had nothing but problems with it that have detracted from the 'quality' marker applied to these vehicles by Audi UK and the dealing chain. Initial oversights from the dealership included (bare in mind these are things meant to be covered by their 'exacting' checklist):
- Parcel shelf - there was a parcel shelf in the car, but we noticed the rattle about 10 minutes after picking up the car and it transpired that the previous owner had just jammied a random parcel shelf in for the PX, and somehow Audi hadn't picked up on it - it wasn't an Audi component and it didn't fit. Replacement provided.
- 'Q' badge on the rear tailgate missing a piece. Replacement provided.
More recent issues:
A dying dashboard
Come December, we started to notice flickering on the dashboard. The illuminations behind the 80-120 range on the speedo were flickering intermittently and at some points would die altogether at some points but then come back. Car booked into shop, couldn't reproduced the problem, bring it back in a month they said. In the meantime the illuminations behind the second half of the rev counter have given up the ghost too. I've got photographic and video evidence for all of this. Meant to go back into the garage a month later, however, it's been in for other issues that I'll get onto that sucked up the workshop time. So probably needs a new dashboard, but still no word on that.
Crank shaft rear main seal leak
The car actually went into the shop for the next problem I'll describe, however when they got it in they discovered this. Turns out the car had spewed out most of its engine oil but not to the point of being empty enough to set off the warning light. Didn't have a clue on this one, warranty have repaired it and labour alone has totaled £1.8k.
Corroded transmission oil pipe
This is the big'un and the source of much frustration at the moment. It appears that the transmission fluid pipe around the cooler has corroded to the point where it has also spewed out pretty much all its transmission fluid. Prior to going into the shop the car had been parked up for pretty much 2 weeks and the first thing I knew about it was going out and the car having a hard time getting into gear. It limped down to the local garage to get it up to see what was going on - nothing more, just a look - and was told the transmission fluid had leaked. From there, the car was taken to the local Audi dealer on a low loader; that was 2 weeks ago now. My local dealer is concerned about the impact this could all have had on the gearbox as the transmission fluid was so low (great that the car doesn't give you any warning about this, nor is the level checkable by a non-mechanic) and warranty has refused to cover any repairs as they don't cover corrosion, which has kicked off a big hoo-hah between them, warranty, and the selling dealer.
The selling dealer have said they wouldn't have been able to check the condition of the pipe because of its location in the engine, however I'm finding it hard to believe a pipe has gone from serviceable condition to corroded to the point of failure in 9 months without it having been in a poor condition in the first place. I've got an open complaint with the Audi UK Executive Office at the moment who are liaising with the selling garage (I called them up when I initially knew there was an issue, of course they were rude, obstructive and didn't want to know) as I don't think I should have to pay for any of this - yes it's corrosion, but it's still the failure of a manufacturer fitted part that should have been checked when the car was purchased; the Audi 'exacting standard' checklist is meant to give the car a thorough check over and if such a critical component isn't viewable without some work then the checks are quite clearly inadequate.
So AFAIK my options are:
- Ask the selling dealer to repair or pay for any outstanding repairs
- Reject the car back to them on the basis of it having multiple faults and selling an item that is of poor quality
Questions for anyone who's got this far:
- What on earth would you make of this?
- What next steps would you be taking (inc. lawyering up)?
Edited by Barrythejeep on Sunday 17th March 18:05
Welcome to PistonHeads.
Respectfully (and playing devil's advocate) the parcel shelf, badge, and trim sound minor. The shelves are very often removed and forgotten about, the badges can be dislodged while polishing, and trim damage on town/family cars is part and parcel. The rubber that loops the rear arch is the common one on these.
The failing LED can be replaced by a specialist relatively easily, try someone like Cartronix, ECU repairs, Cluster repairs etc. LEDs are usually treated like bulbs for warranty purposes.
The oil leak was sorted under warranty, that's good. Unless the level sensor was faulty as well it cannot have lost more than about a litre. A small leak of hot oil under a car usually looks a lot worse than it is.
The leaking pipe is an annoying fault; if the warranty does not cover corrosion then your best bet is going to be staying calm and collected, and asking for a goodwill contribution. You could also investigate the cost of independent repair as it may not be as bad as you think or neccesitate that many replacement components. Car is a few years old and done some miles, you've also had decent use out of it so it's unlikely anyone would class it as a sudden mechanical failure. As you already point out there is no way to inspect this without a thorough strip down on the vehicle which nobody in their right mind would pay for. If there's no prior suspicion of a failure and no way to inspect the components you can't reasonably expect someone to do so. You don't take things apart when there's nothing wrong with them.
Respectfully (and playing devil's advocate) the parcel shelf, badge, and trim sound minor. The shelves are very often removed and forgotten about, the badges can be dislodged while polishing, and trim damage on town/family cars is part and parcel. The rubber that loops the rear arch is the common one on these.
The failing LED can be replaced by a specialist relatively easily, try someone like Cartronix, ECU repairs, Cluster repairs etc. LEDs are usually treated like bulbs for warranty purposes.
The oil leak was sorted under warranty, that's good. Unless the level sensor was faulty as well it cannot have lost more than about a litre. A small leak of hot oil under a car usually looks a lot worse than it is.
The leaking pipe is an annoying fault; if the warranty does not cover corrosion then your best bet is going to be staying calm and collected, and asking for a goodwill contribution. You could also investigate the cost of independent repair as it may not be as bad as you think or neccesitate that many replacement components. Car is a few years old and done some miles, you've also had decent use out of it so it's unlikely anyone would class it as a sudden mechanical failure. As you already point out there is no way to inspect this without a thorough strip down on the vehicle which nobody in their right mind would pay for. If there's no prior suspicion of a failure and no way to inspect the components you can't reasonably expect someone to do so. You don't take things apart when there's nothing wrong with them.
So, just to confirm you bought a 5 year old car 2nd hand 9 months ago with 12,000 miles on teh clock (that's a cracking low mileage), sInce then you've driven it 38,000 miles (so twice as many miles a month than the car had previously done in a year)
The only relevant part of that is that you bought it nine months ago as my understanding is that you have to reject it within six months under current legislation
I think the boat has long sailed on being able to return the vehicle as it "was fit for purpose" and you have to expect in a car that does 50,000 miles a year that you will have increased wear and tear and possibly a Q7 isn't the most appropriate car fro that sort of mileage!
The only relevant part of that is that you bought it nine months ago as my understanding is that you have to reject it within six months under current legislation
I think the boat has long sailed on being able to return the vehicle as it "was fit for purpose" and you have to expect in a car that does 50,000 miles a year that you will have increased wear and tear and possibly a Q7 isn't the most appropriate car fro that sort of mileage!
My old boss, bought a brand new Audi A8 and the serviced he received from delivery to first service was so bad he ended up switching to BMW . I can Believe the treatment you're getting isn't unique. Was the car bought as part of the Audi Approved Used scheme?
Marcellus said:
So, just to confirm you bought a 5 year old car 2nd hand 9 months ago with 12,000 miles on teh clock (that's a cracking low mileage), sInce then you've driven it 38,000 miles (so twice as many miles a month than the car had previously done in a year)
Barrythejeep said:
The car had 38k miles on it when I bought it and I've done c.12k miles since then
Edited by AahBisto on Monday 18th March 19:30
Gassing Station | Audi, Seat, Skoda & VW | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff