Slipped cambelt after 10k miles!!
Discussion
Hiya, its my first time posting here so I hope I am on the right thread.
My husband had a routine cambelt change at an audi specialist garage april last year, no signs or symptoms of the current belt having any issues, car was running spot on, the previous year we hada new turbo fitted by the same garage, it just got to the service schedule to have it replaced which is what we did.
A year almost to the day my husband was leaving work and lost all power and the car wouldn't start, had to call for recovery which happens to be a friend of mine who runs his own garage with recovery, took it back to his not knowing at the time but he since found that the tension bolt on the cambelt was lose. I rang the garage that fitted the belt and they said well its out of warranty as it over the year (by literally 2 weeks) but to get it to them and they would have a look and try a new belt out of good will to see if it would start and to check the extent of the damage but that would cost us if anything had been damaged. Car gets taken to them, we hear nothing then get a call to say that the car is fixed and ready to go, turned the engine by hand and said the engine was fine, no damage, great I thought! Get to the garage to be told the tension bolt/screw had de-threaded its self and bent causing the cambelt to come lose, they had to re-thread the head and put belt back on and tensioner etc, they didn't charge me anything, they never quibbled at all at that point about owing them anything (which I think considering how much he was banging on about it being out of warranty is an admission it was their fault) I thanked them for everything they did and went on my way. However, within a couple of miles I knew something wasn't right, it was juddering and misfireing a lot at tick over, very little power, and once the engine had warmed up a few miles down the road the power loss got worse, it was very very loud and judderey and blue/black smoke was coming out the exhaust! I rang the garage and they said to get it straight back, which we did and have left it there since last Friday. The garage owner was there when we limped back in and said don't worry we'll sort it!!!!
Rang them just now and they haven't even looked at it again so cant say what they think the problem is but the service manager on the phone said it sounds like more damage has been done than first thought and it might be more of an expensive fix - (sounded very much like he meant an expensive fit out of my pocket!)
Where do you think I would stand with this, surely if the bolt de-threaded itself and bent its likely to have not been put on correctly in the first place and over time its become looser and looser to the point where the belt de-toothes, could they have cross threaded it when they put it on? If that is the case and its done damage its their fault and why should I have to foot the bill?
Obviously I don't know what they will say yet but wondered if anyone had any advice they could offer, im just so annoyed because the car was fine before they touched it and in the last couple of years we have spend over 2500 on it!
Many Thanks
My husband had a routine cambelt change at an audi specialist garage april last year, no signs or symptoms of the current belt having any issues, car was running spot on, the previous year we hada new turbo fitted by the same garage, it just got to the service schedule to have it replaced which is what we did.
A year almost to the day my husband was leaving work and lost all power and the car wouldn't start, had to call for recovery which happens to be a friend of mine who runs his own garage with recovery, took it back to his not knowing at the time but he since found that the tension bolt on the cambelt was lose. I rang the garage that fitted the belt and they said well its out of warranty as it over the year (by literally 2 weeks) but to get it to them and they would have a look and try a new belt out of good will to see if it would start and to check the extent of the damage but that would cost us if anything had been damaged. Car gets taken to them, we hear nothing then get a call to say that the car is fixed and ready to go, turned the engine by hand and said the engine was fine, no damage, great I thought! Get to the garage to be told the tension bolt/screw had de-threaded its self and bent causing the cambelt to come lose, they had to re-thread the head and put belt back on and tensioner etc, they didn't charge me anything, they never quibbled at all at that point about owing them anything (which I think considering how much he was banging on about it being out of warranty is an admission it was their fault) I thanked them for everything they did and went on my way. However, within a couple of miles I knew something wasn't right, it was juddering and misfireing a lot at tick over, very little power, and once the engine had warmed up a few miles down the road the power loss got worse, it was very very loud and judderey and blue/black smoke was coming out the exhaust! I rang the garage and they said to get it straight back, which we did and have left it there since last Friday. The garage owner was there when we limped back in and said don't worry we'll sort it!!!!
Rang them just now and they haven't even looked at it again so cant say what they think the problem is but the service manager on the phone said it sounds like more damage has been done than first thought and it might be more of an expensive fix - (sounded very much like he meant an expensive fit out of my pocket!)
Where do you think I would stand with this, surely if the bolt de-threaded itself and bent its likely to have not been put on correctly in the first place and over time its become looser and looser to the point where the belt de-toothes, could they have cross threaded it when they put it on? If that is the case and its done damage its their fault and why should I have to foot the bill?
Obviously I don't know what they will say yet but wondered if anyone had any advice they could offer, im just so annoyed because the car was fine before they touched it and in the last couple of years we have spend over 2500 on it!
Many Thanks
Warranty expired. Not a lot you can do.
You could try the small claims court, but the burden of proof is on you. A loose belt would not wait 10,000 miles to jump teeth but regardless, the garage sound completely incompetent.
This is exactly why I do my own work on everything that I own. Cars, houses, computers, domestic appliances.....all of it. Standards these days are at an all time low, whilst parts and labour charges are at an all time high.
Learning how to fix and maintain life's major purchases should be on the school/college curriculum, along with managing finances and interview skills. People spend years studying to do one thing but the brain has capacity for a lot more. It's just that people don't care about said things until they go wrong, and then bitterly complain about it when they do.
And there endeth my Friday lecture
You could try the small claims court, but the burden of proof is on you. A loose belt would not wait 10,000 miles to jump teeth but regardless, the garage sound completely incompetent.
This is exactly why I do my own work on everything that I own. Cars, houses, computers, domestic appliances.....all of it. Standards these days are at an all time low, whilst parts and labour charges are at an all time high.
Learning how to fix and maintain life's major purchases should be on the school/college curriculum, along with managing finances and interview skills. People spend years studying to do one thing but the brain has capacity for a lot more. It's just that people don't care about said things until they go wrong, and then bitterly complain about it when they do.
And there endeth my Friday lecture
if they use genuine parts then they're warranted for 2yrs - but I guess that's the parts themselves. The indie we use normally has standard 6mth guarantee on their work but he told me it's 2yrs if genuine VW parts are used.
I suppose a further issue is even if the warranty is valid, would it cover consequential damage? I think it should - I'd certainly expect our indie (or a dealer if they did the cambelt change) to sort it out, although I've never tested that.
I suppose a further issue is even if the warranty is valid, would it cover consequential damage? I think it should - I'd certainly expect our indie (or a dealer if they did the cambelt change) to sort it out, although I've never tested that.
Thanks for all the replies!
The garage (jobsworth Service Manager) rang after nearly 2 weeks of not hearing anything (we have a crappy little courtesy car so they said the pressure was off) so.... after telling me both verbally and in writing on the invoice that there was no damage to the engine, engine is absolutely fine it turns out that yes there is, its bent the valves and broken the rocker! I argued with them that if this was given a good road test it would have surely shown signs with that amount of damage because even within 5 minutes of taking it from them something was clearly very wrong, his response, well I wasn't in that weekend so I dunno, but in any case they can often drive absolutely fine on the road test and it isn't for a few days later show something is wrong (I then argued, what even with a broken engine???) I then went on to argue that as they have stated themselves that the tension bolt has de-treaded itself out of the head, surely its pointing to the fact it was never actually put on correctly and over time has been coming loser and loser so this has been a ticking time bomb in the year since its been done? He then goes on to say, if it has been put on incorrectly it wouldn't have lasted 10k miles, it must have been our head that's done it cos the car is old (2006 Audi A3), so basically It couldn't possibly have been their error! He then proceeds to cough and snort when he sees its done 160k miles (even though he knew this as he looked up on the system the mileage when we had the belt done and it had only covered 10k miles in that time) saying that oh yes well its had its day, its at the end of the road now isn't it!! Well funny how they were happy to take £2500 a year ago to put on a new turbo and cambelt on a car that was heading for the scrapyard, but that's ok cos I'm footing the bill not them!!
He then says so, how much do you want to throw at it??? My husband intervenes and states we aren't paying a penny and would dispute through the RMI, he then coughs and splutters and says, oh well leave it with me we will find out what needs doing and get back to you and go from there (when questioned how much he is claiming its going to cost to put right, he says well I don't know I want to know how much you are wanting to throw at it!) then was banging on about how they have already spent this amount of time on it etc etc - then at the end of the conversation he says to my husband that we are being put before paying customers!! Which to me is an admission that they know they should be doing this out of their own pockets!! This guy is so full of himself, one minute when asked what he thought the damge could be he said he doesn't know anything about audis as he is a ford man, then gave me a lecture about the workings of an Audi TT timing chain and how chains NEVER need to be changed, they last the lifetime of the car!!! Honestly, I am at my wits end!!
SO still waiting and have got nowhere! Has anyone else had anything like this before, I feel like we are being totally fobbed off!
The garage (jobsworth Service Manager) rang after nearly 2 weeks of not hearing anything (we have a crappy little courtesy car so they said the pressure was off) so.... after telling me both verbally and in writing on the invoice that there was no damage to the engine, engine is absolutely fine it turns out that yes there is, its bent the valves and broken the rocker! I argued with them that if this was given a good road test it would have surely shown signs with that amount of damage because even within 5 minutes of taking it from them something was clearly very wrong, his response, well I wasn't in that weekend so I dunno, but in any case they can often drive absolutely fine on the road test and it isn't for a few days later show something is wrong (I then argued, what even with a broken engine???) I then went on to argue that as they have stated themselves that the tension bolt has de-treaded itself out of the head, surely its pointing to the fact it was never actually put on correctly and over time has been coming loser and loser so this has been a ticking time bomb in the year since its been done? He then goes on to say, if it has been put on incorrectly it wouldn't have lasted 10k miles, it must have been our head that's done it cos the car is old (2006 Audi A3), so basically It couldn't possibly have been their error! He then proceeds to cough and snort when he sees its done 160k miles (even though he knew this as he looked up on the system the mileage when we had the belt done and it had only covered 10k miles in that time) saying that oh yes well its had its day, its at the end of the road now isn't it!! Well funny how they were happy to take £2500 a year ago to put on a new turbo and cambelt on a car that was heading for the scrapyard, but that's ok cos I'm footing the bill not them!!
He then says so, how much do you want to throw at it??? My husband intervenes and states we aren't paying a penny and would dispute through the RMI, he then coughs and splutters and says, oh well leave it with me we will find out what needs doing and get back to you and go from there (when questioned how much he is claiming its going to cost to put right, he says well I don't know I want to know how much you are wanting to throw at it!) then was banging on about how they have already spent this amount of time on it etc etc - then at the end of the conversation he says to my husband that we are being put before paying customers!! Which to me is an admission that they know they should be doing this out of their own pockets!! This guy is so full of himself, one minute when asked what he thought the damge could be he said he doesn't know anything about audis as he is a ford man, then gave me a lecture about the workings of an Audi TT timing chain and how chains NEVER need to be changed, they last the lifetime of the car!!! Honestly, I am at my wits end!!
SO still waiting and have got nowhere! Has anyone else had anything like this before, I feel like we are being totally fobbed off!
I suspect you are into legal territory with moneyclaim online (aka MCOL), which requires you to go through various steps to give the parties an opportunity to agree a resolution.
https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome
Helpful 25 page guide on the front page to limitations and process. From memory (and I've not used it in anger) you right a letter before claim, explaining the issue in very factual terms. The guidance doc points you to sources of information on what you should do before considering a claim.
The fee is small, but the time involved and the fact you will be without your car in usable condition, may mean it's not viable for you.
It is reasonable to expect a garage to use sufficient care and skill in working on your vehicle. If the part involved was changed as part of the cambelt change, or needed to be removed and replaced as part of the change, you have a good chance of arguing that the failure most definitely relates to that work. It would be reasonable to expect a cambelt component to last more than a year (and the fact it's just over a year does not entirely absolve them)
A letter before claim may make them sit up and take notice, or they may throw their toys out of the pram. The question to you is what would successful resolution look like? If it's your car repaired, that's an option that'll involve them rebuilding the head on your engine (or replacing it with a re-con one), or they might be persuadable to buying the car off you (this happened when a garage my sister asked to MOT her banger decided to repair it without seeking her authorisation - she wouldn't have authorised when informed of the cost of the work), but that's probably less desirable if that money isn't going to cover a replacement and/or you weren't looking to change anyway.
IANAL (I Am Not A Lawyer) as is often quoted in the legal section of this site! You need to establish, possibly through seeking the advice of trading standards or citizens advice, what options for resolution are definitely open to you.
I suspect a head rebuild and another cambelt job is what you're looking at, but that involves a new head gasket too and possibly other sundries while it's in bits. This assumes nothing has dropped off the head (bits of valve, for instance) which might've then got into your shiny recent turbo and damaged that! Question is, what's the car worth and how much aggro are you prepared to put up with?
https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome
Helpful 25 page guide on the front page to limitations and process. From memory (and I've not used it in anger) you right a letter before claim, explaining the issue in very factual terms. The guidance doc points you to sources of information on what you should do before considering a claim.
The fee is small, but the time involved and the fact you will be without your car in usable condition, may mean it's not viable for you.
It is reasonable to expect a garage to use sufficient care and skill in working on your vehicle. If the part involved was changed as part of the cambelt change, or needed to be removed and replaced as part of the change, you have a good chance of arguing that the failure most definitely relates to that work. It would be reasonable to expect a cambelt component to last more than a year (and the fact it's just over a year does not entirely absolve them)
A letter before claim may make them sit up and take notice, or they may throw their toys out of the pram. The question to you is what would successful resolution look like? If it's your car repaired, that's an option that'll involve them rebuilding the head on your engine (or replacing it with a re-con one), or they might be persuadable to buying the car off you (this happened when a garage my sister asked to MOT her banger decided to repair it without seeking her authorisation - she wouldn't have authorised when informed of the cost of the work), but that's probably less desirable if that money isn't going to cover a replacement and/or you weren't looking to change anyway.
IANAL (I Am Not A Lawyer) as is often quoted in the legal section of this site! You need to establish, possibly through seeking the advice of trading standards or citizens advice, what options for resolution are definitely open to you.
I suspect a head rebuild and another cambelt job is what you're looking at, but that involves a new head gasket too and possibly other sundries while it's in bits. This assumes nothing has dropped off the head (bits of valve, for instance) which might've then got into your shiny recent turbo and damaged that! Question is, what's the car worth and how much aggro are you prepared to put up with?
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