Discussion
I'd like a V8 for £20k or less that has maximum driver engagement, will be at home on twisty B roads and can be used in all UK weathers. Not only have I always wanted a B7 RS4, it seems to tick all of the above.
However, they tend to have the coking issues which mean realistically they struggle to even make 400bhp. They aren't a modern V8 so their MPG is especially poor (I can overlook this as it won't be a daily), their Recaro seats seem to be a magnet for thieves (maybe a thing of the past with all of the new RS', Golf R's etc out there today?) and almost all examples are high mileage or only just run in with sellers demanding a price that exceeds the prices of most B8's, for the latter.
I have a very well set up MK5 R32 which is at home on the B roads and will keep up with most cars double its power on the twisties but it just lacks grunt in a straight line. It needs 350-400bhp, not the 260 or so that it has. I've considered supercharging it but it isn't cheap so I think I would rather keep it as it is and put these funds towards the V8. I need the new car to do everything the R32 does and more, so I don't miss it if I choose to sell it on. Is the RS4 just as chuckable or will it struggle to keep pace with hot hatches in the twisties?
Finally, other options. Many have said why not go for an E92 M3. Similar price if not slightly more affordable, make their power figures, can get a newer car (latest B7 is 2007 I believe). However, as said at the start of this post, I want to be able to drive the car at the limit and not have to worry about it being damp or greasy out. Is the RWD forgiving, or is the RS4 the better all rounder for UK roads and conditions, despite being outclassed by the M3 round a track? Stretch a few more £k and the B8 RS4 comes into contention... however, I've heard it's nowhere near as engaging, no manual option, poor steering feel, etc.
Would love to hear from anyone that has driven some or all of the above cars and can offer some detailed insights. Finally, is there anything else I should be considering for this budget? I need to tick the V8 box before we are no longer allowed to own them, or we have to pay a premium to do so! Cheers
However, they tend to have the coking issues which mean realistically they struggle to even make 400bhp. They aren't a modern V8 so their MPG is especially poor (I can overlook this as it won't be a daily), their Recaro seats seem to be a magnet for thieves (maybe a thing of the past with all of the new RS', Golf R's etc out there today?) and almost all examples are high mileage or only just run in with sellers demanding a price that exceeds the prices of most B8's, for the latter.
I have a very well set up MK5 R32 which is at home on the B roads and will keep up with most cars double its power on the twisties but it just lacks grunt in a straight line. It needs 350-400bhp, not the 260 or so that it has. I've considered supercharging it but it isn't cheap so I think I would rather keep it as it is and put these funds towards the V8. I need the new car to do everything the R32 does and more, so I don't miss it if I choose to sell it on. Is the RS4 just as chuckable or will it struggle to keep pace with hot hatches in the twisties?
Finally, other options. Many have said why not go for an E92 M3. Similar price if not slightly more affordable, make their power figures, can get a newer car (latest B7 is 2007 I believe). However, as said at the start of this post, I want to be able to drive the car at the limit and not have to worry about it being damp or greasy out. Is the RWD forgiving, or is the RS4 the better all rounder for UK roads and conditions, despite being outclassed by the M3 round a track? Stretch a few more £k and the B8 RS4 comes into contention... however, I've heard it's nowhere near as engaging, no manual option, poor steering feel, etc.
Would love to hear from anyone that has driven some or all of the above cars and can offer some detailed insights. Finally, is there anything else I should be considering for this budget? I need to tick the V8 box before we are no longer allowed to own them, or we have to pay a premium to do so! Cheers
My B7 RS4 was the best car I ever had. I bought it from new for £48,000, ran it for five years and then sold it to Fontaine for £22,000 and have regretted it ever since.
I’ve spent over half a million pounds* on cars in the last eight years trying to replace it, and am still not there.
They are getting on a bit now, and do have the odd issue, but there’s something just so very right about them.
The B8 didn’t work for me, I actually preferred the S5 over the RS4.
C63
911 GTS Cabriolet
M2
M3
M3
V8 R8
V10 Plus R8
SL63
Abarth 595
Tesla P100D
Range Rover Sport.
I’ve spent over half a million pounds* on cars in the last eight years trying to replace it, and am still not there.
They are getting on a bit now, and do have the odd issue, but there’s something just so very right about them.
The B8 didn’t work for me, I actually preferred the S5 over the RS4.
- I hadn’t added it up before, and I’m a bit shocked, but the list includes;
C63
911 GTS Cabriolet
M2
M3
M3
V8 R8
V10 Plus R8
SL63
Abarth 595
Tesla P100D
Range Rover Sport.
I had a B7 back in the day and it remains the best RS car I have owned, the list includes a B5, B8 and currently a C7 PE. That said, I'm not sure how it would stack up today, very thirsty and with a relatively small tank I found myself filling up at least twice a week. Oil consumption was high and the usual DRC/coking issues would be a concern, but I reckon it was the best daily performance car of its time, such a pity that Audi didn't build on its dynamic abilities, though I believe the B9 is pretty good. I would advise you to check into RS246 for more advice and information, some decent people on there.
Hi mischmaster,
I have owned by B7 RS4 saloon for over 11 years now and driven it over 100,000 miles, and she isn't going anywhere by choice in a hurry.
I use it all year round, having driven it in pretty much every scenario the UK can throw at us, and rarely has it had a problem doing it's duty: Ground clearance in deeper snow seems to be an issue
Coking is certainly an issue with these engines. I have never had mine carbon cleaned, however this is something I will remedy later this year. It will be interesting as it has never been done before (car is on 107,500). I had my car's power measured twice; once at 65k miles, another at 90k when it produced 390bhp and 376, respectively. After the first occasion, I noted the car still performed to Audi's quoted figures. I haven't measure these recently, but should imagine the performance is down slightly.
Yes, MPG is poor; a typical tank lasting an average of 280ish miles at about 18-23 MPG per journey.
Reports of Recaro thefts appear to have dwindled in more recent years, but I guess it is still possible.
There is certainly quite a price different between mint low milers, and higher mileage cars like mine. That said, it's very much a classic case of servicing, care and condition.
Other issues to consider are oil cooler & pipe corrosion, clutches, DRC shock absorber leaks, worn suspension/mounting bushes and aluminium body panel corrosion is starting to emerge now, too.
Additionally, my car also had headlight issues (adaptive xenon option), a catalytic converter go bad, sticky front caliper, a couple of worn trim buttons along with a handful of other bits which slip my mind right now.
OEM discs and pads can be expensive, but there are plenty of aftermarket options out there now.
IIRC a Mk5 R32 is a heavy for hatch, but the RS will be heavier still; my saloon was 1720kg when I weighed it with half a tank of fuel.
Regarding performance, a modern turbo 6 diesel will easily pull away if you're in the wrong gear and these modern very hot hatches will do much more than give you a run for your money. That said, I find mine still very good fun and they remain a quick car. To me now, I find it more about the manual 'box, V8 noise and the associated smile
During my RS ownership, my brother owned a manual E92 M3. We had great fun together on road and track, and can confirm what everybody thinks: The M3 is quicker around a circuit but RS is better in inclement weather. In Germany, we discovered the cars were near identical from 30mph to the their limiters. As it happens, both cars go beyond 155, hitting their limiters at GPS speeds of 162 for the M3 and 164 in the RS.
Across a fun, dry B-road, the M3 would pull ahead but not by an enormous amount.
The M3's EDC equipped suspension was much softer than my car's factory-optioned Sport Suspension Plus (10mm lower, stiffer springs).
The clutch was also much lighter in the M3.
Standard noises on these cars are pleasing, but very different: The M3 has a higher pitch, while the RS is lower, deeper tone.
The interior of the M3 does feel and look a generation ahead of the RS, but all the bits are present in the older car, if optioned.
I have experience of the B8 RS5 and RS4. Both felt a little quicker than the B7, but IMO the S Tronic meant it was less exciting. You are correct about the steering feel, but then the 3 cars I drove all had the dynamic steering, so that was probably why.
That said, I found the B8 to be a fantastic, fast and more-modern platform.
The obvious manual V8 option would also be an R8 V8 if you can do with only 2 seats.
I drove a VXR8 a few years ago. While the handling was more muscle-car and the interior wasn't the same as its German rivals, I enjoyed the low-down torque and the noise was lovey!
Not manual, but the C63 (6.2 NA motor) was great fun. The car had the optional LSD & Performance Pack Plus, and was a hoot during the wet test drive!
It may cost a little more to run, but could an Aston V8 Vantage be an option? The 4.3 may not be as quick as an RS4 but the gearbox was lovely in all its meatiness and heft, and that noise is glorious!
Hopefully this helps a little. Any further questions, just ask.
Good luck with your search, and pop out to try some options
Darren
I have owned by B7 RS4 saloon for over 11 years now and driven it over 100,000 miles, and she isn't going anywhere by choice in a hurry.
I use it all year round, having driven it in pretty much every scenario the UK can throw at us, and rarely has it had a problem doing it's duty: Ground clearance in deeper snow seems to be an issue
Coking is certainly an issue with these engines. I have never had mine carbon cleaned, however this is something I will remedy later this year. It will be interesting as it has never been done before (car is on 107,500). I had my car's power measured twice; once at 65k miles, another at 90k when it produced 390bhp and 376, respectively. After the first occasion, I noted the car still performed to Audi's quoted figures. I haven't measure these recently, but should imagine the performance is down slightly.
Yes, MPG is poor; a typical tank lasting an average of 280ish miles at about 18-23 MPG per journey.
Reports of Recaro thefts appear to have dwindled in more recent years, but I guess it is still possible.
There is certainly quite a price different between mint low milers, and higher mileage cars like mine. That said, it's very much a classic case of servicing, care and condition.
Other issues to consider are oil cooler & pipe corrosion, clutches, DRC shock absorber leaks, worn suspension/mounting bushes and aluminium body panel corrosion is starting to emerge now, too.
Additionally, my car also had headlight issues (adaptive xenon option), a catalytic converter go bad, sticky front caliper, a couple of worn trim buttons along with a handful of other bits which slip my mind right now.
OEM discs and pads can be expensive, but there are plenty of aftermarket options out there now.
IIRC a Mk5 R32 is a heavy for hatch, but the RS will be heavier still; my saloon was 1720kg when I weighed it with half a tank of fuel.
Regarding performance, a modern turbo 6 diesel will easily pull away if you're in the wrong gear and these modern very hot hatches will do much more than give you a run for your money. That said, I find mine still very good fun and they remain a quick car. To me now, I find it more about the manual 'box, V8 noise and the associated smile
During my RS ownership, my brother owned a manual E92 M3. We had great fun together on road and track, and can confirm what everybody thinks: The M3 is quicker around a circuit but RS is better in inclement weather. In Germany, we discovered the cars were near identical from 30mph to the their limiters. As it happens, both cars go beyond 155, hitting their limiters at GPS speeds of 162 for the M3 and 164 in the RS.
Across a fun, dry B-road, the M3 would pull ahead but not by an enormous amount.
The M3's EDC equipped suspension was much softer than my car's factory-optioned Sport Suspension Plus (10mm lower, stiffer springs).
The clutch was also much lighter in the M3.
Standard noises on these cars are pleasing, but very different: The M3 has a higher pitch, while the RS is lower, deeper tone.
The interior of the M3 does feel and look a generation ahead of the RS, but all the bits are present in the older car, if optioned.
I have experience of the B8 RS5 and RS4. Both felt a little quicker than the B7, but IMO the S Tronic meant it was less exciting. You are correct about the steering feel, but then the 3 cars I drove all had the dynamic steering, so that was probably why.
That said, I found the B8 to be a fantastic, fast and more-modern platform.
The obvious manual V8 option would also be an R8 V8 if you can do with only 2 seats.
I drove a VXR8 a few years ago. While the handling was more muscle-car and the interior wasn't the same as its German rivals, I enjoyed the low-down torque and the noise was lovey!
Not manual, but the C63 (6.2 NA motor) was great fun. The car had the optional LSD & Performance Pack Plus, and was a hoot during the wet test drive!
It may cost a little more to run, but could an Aston V8 Vantage be an option? The 4.3 may not be as quick as an RS4 but the gearbox was lovely in all its meatiness and heft, and that noise is glorious!
Hopefully this helps a little. Any further questions, just ask.
Good luck with your search, and pop out to try some options
Darren
Edited by iluvmercs on Friday 4th September 20:01
I've had mine for getting on for 8yrs. They're brilliant cars. Get one.
- coking? Easy to get any prospective purchase checked, including for bhp. Mine's giving the full compliment of power - it does have an MRC map...main thing it gives is a really stark difference between Sport and normal. You can also do an in gear test that will give a decent estimation of whether it's running well or not (can't recall the exact details....you'll find them on https://forum.rs246.com/ somewhere). Coking can be sorted.
- oil consumption...again, mine's not that bad at all. Some can use a bit
- seats...not had a problem yet. You could fit security bolts to them if very paranoid.
- handling...brilliant on b-roads. Car's the right size to exploit fully and can be hustled very quickly. Could it be seen off by more modern hot hatches? Possibly, though to be frank with the speeds these cars are capable of, on b-roads it will come down to driver skill. And you really don't want to be racing down b-roads.
- interior is lovely
- sound is awesome with a decent exhaust (I have a Milltek...it's loud and very, very V8
)
Downsides...
Fuel consumption is around 20mpg on b-road blasts.
DRC, which in my opinion is a good chunk of what makes the RS4 what it is, can be very problematic (dampers are around 1k a corner. Pipework 3-4k to sort when it corrodes through etc).
Cars will quite possibly be showing signs of corrosion in places now.
Brakes get a hammering. Discs roughly every other set of pads...1k an axle or so.
They're basically expensive cars to run. But well worth it.
They're also not that huge inside - with the Recaro buckets there is minimal leg room in the rear if the front passengers are 6ft or more.
My Aston V8 was slower point to point on b-roads. Not by much, but slower. They are also not really all year round cars - they don't work well in snow. The RS4 does (note - going quickly in snow is not an issue. Stopping is no matter what you're in - winter tyres are a must). The Aston is the more special car though.
I've often thought of what could replace the RS4 and drawn blanks...I replaced the Aston with a 911 C4S...the idea was for it to replace the RS4 once I get other cars back on the road. that will probably still end up being the plan....the RS4 is probably a bit quicker than the 911 too on the roads I drive on most...but the 911 is just as useable in all weathers (and between the Aston and RS4 in terms of that "special" feeling).
B8 RS4 is a lovely car, but that bit bigger. And the gearbox can be a weak point. As a proper replacement it's likely to be the closest to the B7.
RS6s are great but too big.
There really isn't anything that gives the same blend IMO.
(Happy to answer specific questions not covered).
- coking? Easy to get any prospective purchase checked, including for bhp. Mine's giving the full compliment of power - it does have an MRC map...main thing it gives is a really stark difference between Sport and normal. You can also do an in gear test that will give a decent estimation of whether it's running well or not (can't recall the exact details....you'll find them on https://forum.rs246.com/ somewhere). Coking can be sorted.
- oil consumption...again, mine's not that bad at all. Some can use a bit
- seats...not had a problem yet. You could fit security bolts to them if very paranoid.
- handling...brilliant on b-roads. Car's the right size to exploit fully and can be hustled very quickly. Could it be seen off by more modern hot hatches? Possibly, though to be frank with the speeds these cars are capable of, on b-roads it will come down to driver skill. And you really don't want to be racing down b-roads.
- interior is lovely
- sound is awesome with a decent exhaust (I have a Milltek...it's loud and very, very V8
)Downsides...
Fuel consumption is around 20mpg on b-road blasts.
DRC, which in my opinion is a good chunk of what makes the RS4 what it is, can be very problematic (dampers are around 1k a corner. Pipework 3-4k to sort when it corrodes through etc).
Cars will quite possibly be showing signs of corrosion in places now.
Brakes get a hammering. Discs roughly every other set of pads...1k an axle or so.
They're basically expensive cars to run. But well worth it.
They're also not that huge inside - with the Recaro buckets there is minimal leg room in the rear if the front passengers are 6ft or more.
My Aston V8 was slower point to point on b-roads. Not by much, but slower. They are also not really all year round cars - they don't work well in snow. The RS4 does (note - going quickly in snow is not an issue. Stopping is no matter what you're in - winter tyres are a must). The Aston is the more special car though.
I've often thought of what could replace the RS4 and drawn blanks...I replaced the Aston with a 911 C4S...the idea was for it to replace the RS4 once I get other cars back on the road. that will probably still end up being the plan....the RS4 is probably a bit quicker than the 911 too on the roads I drive on most...but the 911 is just as useable in all weathers (and between the Aston and RS4 in terms of that "special" feeling).
B8 RS4 is a lovely car, but that bit bigger. And the gearbox can be a weak point. As a proper replacement it's likely to be the closest to the B7.
RS6s are great but too big.
There really isn't anything that gives the same blend IMO.
(Happy to answer specific questions not covered
).I won't go into detail as the guys above have it covered but i've had a B7 RS4 too and it was bloody great.
Sounds great, looks great, reliable, fun, practical.
Only negative for me was the cost of brake discs, £1500+ from audi if i recall correctly.
Great car though, would reccomend anyone to give one a go if they have the opportunity, you won't be dissapointed.
Sounds great, looks great, reliable, fun, practical.
Only negative for me was the cost of brake discs, £1500+ from audi if i recall correctly.
Great car though, would reccomend anyone to give one a go if they have the opportunity, you won't be dissapointed.
I almost bit the bullet and bought one back in 2013. I had coveted one since they came out and really wanted another powerful AWD saloon, with a manual gearbox. I also knew people who had positive stories of ownership.
At the time, I had just decided to move on from a C63 Merc, which has an awesome soundtrack, but isn't a nimble drivers car. It also had electrical issues.
I test drove a few, but I am sorry to say, that my budget actually opened up to the option of a brand new B8.54, which was also a great car, but no manual box and no V8. So the B7 one of life's motoring regrets.
Prices today are not too dissimilar to what they were seven years ago.
Had mine for 7 years, bought for £48k (list 55 IIRC) and sold for 25 7 years later (was serviced annually and had low miles), zero reliability issues apart from one DRC replacement
great cars, lots of good info above
de-coking was about £450 to remedy, something to budget for every 3 or 4 years IMHO
great cars, lots of good info above
de-coking was about £450 to remedy, something to budget for every 3 or 4 years IMHO
I had a blast in one of these today. I own a Lexus ISF and was thinking these were a great looking alternative with a manual. The auto in the lexus is fantastic but I always prefer a good manual if I can get one. I was a little bit disappointed.
The good stuff was that it has a fantastic engine sound with the Miltek exhaust system. Really loud and much better (or louder at least) exhaust note than my stock IS F. The handling and damping felt very nice. Really good balance on the back roads and could see the attraction here. Stiff but nicely damped. Steering wheel felt nice in the hand too. Didn't get much time to notice the feedback. Definitely a very well sorted car in terms of handling and ride. The gear change felt nice but I found it impossible to heel and toe as the space between the pedals is far too big. Was very, very disappointed by that as imo it totally defeats the purpose of a manual. The seats are very comfortable and the driving position is not bad. It's a nice size too.
Speed: to be honest it felt a didn't feel that fast. The ISF feels like it's doing nothing below 3000rpm but once the secondary air intake opens it really surges forward and you are just being pushed into the seat all the way to the red line before banging off another gear. In the RS4 I didn't really get that feeling at all. I know it has less torque and more revs but I was disappointed. The induction sound is fairly non existent too. Its all exhaust noise wheras the Lexus is all induction and to be honest it's much more satisfying.
Both mine and the RS4 had 56,000 miles but there is absolutely no comparison in terms of build quality. The rs4 felt relatively flimsy and the interior was quite rattly. I know the motoring press loves to go on about Audi build quality but there is absolutely no comparison between the two cars in that department. My old Alfa 159 felt more solid at the same mileage to be honest. And this was a very clean example. The armrest was very brittle and the writing on buttons had worn off. I always wondered how these were so light with a 4wd system and I think i know now. Still though, none of this would put me off one on its own but getting back into my own car afterwards I had a renewed appreciation of its build quality.
Overall I think the b7 rs4 is a fantastic car but the only thing that would convince me to change, the manual, let it down. The pedal layout just didn't work for me which negated the allure of a manual. It did convince me I need to get a better exhaust on my car ASAP though.
The good stuff was that it has a fantastic engine sound with the Miltek exhaust system. Really loud and much better (or louder at least) exhaust note than my stock IS F. The handling and damping felt very nice. Really good balance on the back roads and could see the attraction here. Stiff but nicely damped. Steering wheel felt nice in the hand too. Didn't get much time to notice the feedback. Definitely a very well sorted car in terms of handling and ride. The gear change felt nice but I found it impossible to heel and toe as the space between the pedals is far too big. Was very, very disappointed by that as imo it totally defeats the purpose of a manual. The seats are very comfortable and the driving position is not bad. It's a nice size too.
Speed: to be honest it felt a didn't feel that fast. The ISF feels like it's doing nothing below 3000rpm but once the secondary air intake opens it really surges forward and you are just being pushed into the seat all the way to the red line before banging off another gear. In the RS4 I didn't really get that feeling at all. I know it has less torque and more revs but I was disappointed. The induction sound is fairly non existent too. Its all exhaust noise wheras the Lexus is all induction and to be honest it's much more satisfying.
Both mine and the RS4 had 56,000 miles but there is absolutely no comparison in terms of build quality. The rs4 felt relatively flimsy and the interior was quite rattly. I know the motoring press loves to go on about Audi build quality but there is absolutely no comparison between the two cars in that department. My old Alfa 159 felt more solid at the same mileage to be honest. And this was a very clean example. The armrest was very brittle and the writing on buttons had worn off. I always wondered how these were so light with a 4wd system and I think i know now. Still though, none of this would put me off one on its own but getting back into my own car afterwards I had a renewed appreciation of its build quality.
Overall I think the b7 rs4 is a fantastic car but the only thing that would convince me to change, the manual, let it down. The pedal layout just didn't work for me which negated the allure of a manual. It did convince me I need to get a better exhaust on my car ASAP though.
llcoolmac said:
I had a blast in one of these today. I own a Lexus ISF and was thinking these were a great looking alternative with a manual. The auto in the lexus is fantastic but I always prefer a good manual if I can get one. I was a little bit disappointed.
The good stuff was that it has a fantastic engine sound with the Miltek exhaust system. Really loud and much better (or louder at least) exhaust note than my stock IS F. The handling and damping felt very nice. Really good balance on the back roads and could see the attraction here. Stiff but nicely damped. Steering wheel felt nice in the hand too. Didn't get much time to notice the feedback. Definitely a very well sorted car in terms of handling and ride. The gear change felt nice but I found it impossible to heel and toe as the space between the pedals is far too big. Was very, very disappointed by that as imo it totally defeats the purpose of a manual. The seats are very comfortable and the driving position is not bad. It's a nice size too.
Speed: to be honest it felt a didn't feel that fast. The ISF feels like it's doing nothing below 3000rpm but once the secondary air intake opens it really surges forward and you are just being pushed into the seat all the way to the red line before banging off another gear. In the RS4 I didn't really get that feeling at all. I know it has less torque and more revs but I was disappointed. The induction sound is fairly non existent too. Its all exhaust noise wheras the Lexus is all induction and to be honest it's much more satisfying.
Both mine and the RS4 had 56,000 miles but there is absolutely no comparison in terms of build quality. The rs4 felt relatively flimsy and the interior was quite rattly. I know the motoring press loves to go on about Audi build quality but there is absolutely no comparison between the two cars in that department. My old Alfa 159 felt more solid at the same mileage to be honest. And this was a very clean example. The armrest was very brittle and the writing on buttons had worn off. I always wondered how these were so light with a 4wd system and I think i know now. Still though, none of this would put me off one on its own but getting back into my own car afterwards I had a renewed appreciation of its build quality.
Overall I think the b7 rs4 is a fantastic car but the only thing that would convince me to change, the manual, let it down. The pedal layout just didn't work for me which negated the allure of a manual. It did convince me I need to get a better exhaust on my car ASAP though.
Did you not feel an increase in shove around 4k-4.5k revs? Did you try the car with the sport button pressed?The good stuff was that it has a fantastic engine sound with the Miltek exhaust system. Really loud and much better (or louder at least) exhaust note than my stock IS F. The handling and damping felt very nice. Really good balance on the back roads and could see the attraction here. Stiff but nicely damped. Steering wheel felt nice in the hand too. Didn't get much time to notice the feedback. Definitely a very well sorted car in terms of handling and ride. The gear change felt nice but I found it impossible to heel and toe as the space between the pedals is far too big. Was very, very disappointed by that as imo it totally defeats the purpose of a manual. The seats are very comfortable and the driving position is not bad. It's a nice size too.
Speed: to be honest it felt a didn't feel that fast. The ISF feels like it's doing nothing below 3000rpm but once the secondary air intake opens it really surges forward and you are just being pushed into the seat all the way to the red line before banging off another gear. In the RS4 I didn't really get that feeling at all. I know it has less torque and more revs but I was disappointed. The induction sound is fairly non existent too. Its all exhaust noise wheras the Lexus is all induction and to be honest it's much more satisfying.
Both mine and the RS4 had 56,000 miles but there is absolutely no comparison in terms of build quality. The rs4 felt relatively flimsy and the interior was quite rattly. I know the motoring press loves to go on about Audi build quality but there is absolutely no comparison between the two cars in that department. My old Alfa 159 felt more solid at the same mileage to be honest. And this was a very clean example. The armrest was very brittle and the writing on buttons had worn off. I always wondered how these were so light with a 4wd system and I think i know now. Still though, none of this would put me off one on its own but getting back into my own car afterwards I had a renewed appreciation of its build quality.
Overall I think the b7 rs4 is a fantastic car but the only thing that would convince me to change, the manual, let it down. The pedal layout just didn't work for me which negated the allure of a manual. It did convince me I need to get a better exhaust on my car ASAP though.
Coked up cars can feel dead with little increase in shove at these revs. They can also be very down on power. It should feel like it's taking off, especially with the sport button pressed (even more marked in mine with an MRC map - car is making full power).
Was it an Avant? Saloon? Cab? Mine's just turned 100k miles and feels solid. Only gets used on b-roads really, which is where it excels.
Steering wheel buttons can be changed cheaply (they do wear).
I don't have a major issue with heel and toe, though do have size 11s.
Sounds to me like the one you tried might not have been in the rudest of health beneath the skin - wouldn't change the pedal layout though
Murph7355 said:
llcoolmac said:
I had a blast in one of these today. I own a Lexus ISF and was thinking these were a great looking alternative with a manual. The auto in the lexus is fantastic but I always prefer a good manual if I can get one. I was a little bit disappointed.
The good stuff was that it has a fantastic engine sound with the Miltek exhaust system. Really loud and much better (or louder at least) exhaust note than my stock IS F. The handling and damping felt very nice. Really good balance on the back roads and could see the attraction here. Stiff but nicely damped. Steering wheel felt nice in the hand too. Didn't get much time to notice the feedback. Definitely a very well sorted car in terms of handling and ride. The gear change felt nice but I found it impossible to heel and toe as the space between the pedals is far too big. Was very, very disappointed by that as imo it totally defeats the purpose of a manual. The seats are very comfortable and the driving position is not bad. It's a nice size too.
Speed: to be honest it felt a didn't feel that fast. The ISF feels like it's doing nothing below 3000rpm but once the secondary air intake opens it really surges forward and you are just being pushed into the seat all the way to the red line before banging off another gear. In the RS4 I didn't really get that feeling at all. I know it has less torque and more revs but I was disappointed. The induction sound is fairly non existent too. Its all exhaust noise wheras the Lexus is all induction and to be honest it's much more satisfying.
Both mine and the RS4 had 56,000 miles but there is absolutely no comparison in terms of build quality. The rs4 felt relatively flimsy and the interior was quite rattly. I know the motoring press loves to go on about Audi build quality but there is absolutely no comparison between the two cars in that department. My old Alfa 159 felt more solid at the same mileage to be honest. And this was a very clean example. The armrest was very brittle and the writing on buttons had worn off. I always wondered how these were so light with a 4wd system and I think i know now. Still though, none of this would put me off one on its own but getting back into my own car afterwards I had a renewed appreciation of its build quality.
Overall I think the b7 rs4 is a fantastic car but the only thing that would convince me to change, the manual, let it down. The pedal layout just didn't work for me which negated the allure of a manual. It did convince me I need to get a better exhaust on my car ASAP though.
Did you not feel an increase in shove around 4k-4.5k revs? Did you try the car with the sport button pressed?The good stuff was that it has a fantastic engine sound with the Miltek exhaust system. Really loud and much better (or louder at least) exhaust note than my stock IS F. The handling and damping felt very nice. Really good balance on the back roads and could see the attraction here. Stiff but nicely damped. Steering wheel felt nice in the hand too. Didn't get much time to notice the feedback. Definitely a very well sorted car in terms of handling and ride. The gear change felt nice but I found it impossible to heel and toe as the space between the pedals is far too big. Was very, very disappointed by that as imo it totally defeats the purpose of a manual. The seats are very comfortable and the driving position is not bad. It's a nice size too.
Speed: to be honest it felt a didn't feel that fast. The ISF feels like it's doing nothing below 3000rpm but once the secondary air intake opens it really surges forward and you are just being pushed into the seat all the way to the red line before banging off another gear. In the RS4 I didn't really get that feeling at all. I know it has less torque and more revs but I was disappointed. The induction sound is fairly non existent too. Its all exhaust noise wheras the Lexus is all induction and to be honest it's much more satisfying.
Both mine and the RS4 had 56,000 miles but there is absolutely no comparison in terms of build quality. The rs4 felt relatively flimsy and the interior was quite rattly. I know the motoring press loves to go on about Audi build quality but there is absolutely no comparison between the two cars in that department. My old Alfa 159 felt more solid at the same mileage to be honest. And this was a very clean example. The armrest was very brittle and the writing on buttons had worn off. I always wondered how these were so light with a 4wd system and I think i know now. Still though, none of this would put me off one on its own but getting back into my own car afterwards I had a renewed appreciation of its build quality.
Overall I think the b7 rs4 is a fantastic car but the only thing that would convince me to change, the manual, let it down. The pedal layout just didn't work for me which negated the allure of a manual. It did convince me I need to get a better exhaust on my car ASAP though.
Coked up cars can feel dead with little increase in shove at these revs. They can also be very down on power. It should feel like it's taking off, especially with the sport button pressed (even more marked in mine with an MRC map - car is making full power).
Was it an Avant? Saloon? Cab? Mine's just turned 100k miles and feels solid. Only gets used on b-roads really, which is where it excels.
Steering wheel buttons can be changed cheaply (they do wear).
I don't have a major issue with heel and toe, though do have size 11s.
Sounds to me like the one you tried might not have been in the rudest of health beneath the skin - wouldn't change the pedal layout though
It did sound a little lumpy on startup so maybe it needs to be decoked.
llcoolmac said:
It was an Avant. There wasn't a noticeable increase in power at 4500rpm. I didn't have the s button pressed for most of it but when I did I didn't really notice a huge difference. This one supposedly had a stage 2 remap for 500bhp but I'm fairly certain these engines can't make 500bhp, that's 120bhp per litre and it definitely didn't feel like that.
It did sound a little lumpy on startup so maybe it needs to be decoked.
Definitely not running right IMO. And definitely not 500bhp even it was.It did sound a little lumpy on startup so maybe it needs to be decoked.
You need to try several cars - the differences between them, even superficially nice looking ones, is massive.
blade7 said:
Depends what you're comparing it with obviously, but I felt the B7 saloon I went out in was a bit floaty when pushed on a twisty B road. Fairly sure all the dampers were working properly too. Never been in a V8 M3, stories of big bills would put me off owning one of those.
It does depend what you're used to...but I wouldn't describe my DRC car as "floaty" on-roads.Did the one you drove have DRC? If it was floaty, what made you fairly sure the dampers were all in good health? What about springs too? Mine's had two broken springs and two failed dampers - different times
You could still drive it, but it didn't feel quite right (the first broken spring was especially odd as at times it felt fine to the extent I thought I was imagining things).It also needed all its DRC pipework changing last year as it was leaking that way too. These are NOT cheap cars to look after properly
jakesmith said:
I would t see it as a B-Road car personally, surely that’s a Boxster or Lotus or Caterham or something?
For me these types of cars are for cruisy A roads / DC’s with massive roundabouts to nail it / drift round
You'd struggle getting shopping and kids in a Boxster or Caterham For me these types of cars are for cruisy A roads / DC’s with massive roundabouts to nail it / drift round
The B7 RS4 is compact enough to still be usable as a b-road bruiser (I do most of my mileage on great b-roads). It's brilliant on them - I would say pretty much as good as my 911 on balance (some things better, some worse).
My Caterham is better on the right day...but that means decent weather and nothing to do other than go hoon.
Well I said a 'bit floaty' and that was when it was shifting on a normal B road surface. It did have the DRC dampers, and the owner was on top of it's maintenance. In the wet, I dare say it would be all over most 2wd saloons. But in the dry the suspension felt a bit soft to me. Maybe KW's would improve that.
blade7 said:
Well I said a 'bit floaty' and that was when it was shifting on a normal B road surface. It did have the DRC dampers, and the owner was on top of it's maintenance. In the wet, I dare say it would be all over most 2wd saloons. But in the dry the suspension felt a bit soft to me. Maybe KW's would improve that.
Mine has DRC. It's very quick and surefooted down b-roads 
Maybe it is entirely down to what one is used to...though it's not like I've spent most of my time in floaty barges (XC90s aside
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