A4 Allroad 2.0 TFSi
Discussion
First time on this section of PH so go easy with me please.
Deposit paid and collecting next week a 2017 A4 Allroad petrol 254 PS. It has been highly specced by the previous owner (HUD, tech pack, reversing camera, colour coded wheel arch extensions/bumpers, advanced key).
My questions relate to the four wheel drive that is only two wheel drive until needed. It's going to replace a diesel X5 that I've had for almost 15 yrs, has been pretty good and use when I can't get my van out due to snow.
I live in the north Pennines and we have just had an atrocious winter (it was snowing again on Wednesday).
I'm giving serious thought to buying a second set of wheels with snow tyres.
1) Are these part time Allroads any good?
2) Does the four wheel drive engage in reverse (backing off driveway/out of garage) into deep snow?
3) Is there a delay in the four wheel drive engaging?
I would appreciate any first hand experiences.
Thanks in advance.
Deposit paid and collecting next week a 2017 A4 Allroad petrol 254 PS. It has been highly specced by the previous owner (HUD, tech pack, reversing camera, colour coded wheel arch extensions/bumpers, advanced key).
My questions relate to the four wheel drive that is only two wheel drive until needed. It's going to replace a diesel X5 that I've had for almost 15 yrs, has been pretty good and use when I can't get my van out due to snow.
I live in the north Pennines and we have just had an atrocious winter (it was snowing again on Wednesday).
I'm giving serious thought to buying a second set of wheels with snow tyres.
1) Are these part time Allroads any good?
2) Does the four wheel drive engage in reverse (backing off driveway/out of garage) into deep snow?
3) Is there a delay in the four wheel drive engaging?
I would appreciate any first hand experiences.
Thanks in advance.
I would certainly say that's a good engine choice - the EA888 really is great and will do you well.
Don't be at all concerned about it's capability in the snow. These allroads are fantastic dynamically for the type of vehicle it is. I'm not sure if I can post youtube links, but if you search for a channel called 'Pashtette' it will give you a good idea of what they are capable of. So to answer your first question, yes they are great machines, but I'd opt for the smallest possible wheel diameter on this type of car.
Q2: yes, the quattro ultra type system (similar to, but not called haldex anymore) engages in reverse.
Q3: in reality for most people it engages so quickly you won't notice it. Infact, with the ultra system you will get less wheelspin than the audi torsen system on front to rear as the clutchpack locks up quickly whereas torsen is effectively a differential and gives more slip (heck, I think even the later X5's use a clutch pack system). In offroad mode the center clutch pack locks. The ultra system is better than some of the complained-about haldex systems of past, but it is inherently still a reactive system it will feel front wheel drive biased on the road (but most people won't really be able to tell). If your's is an E53 X5, you will have open diffs front / rear and this this Allroad will too but with with (what audi call) EDL (electronic diff lock). All that means is it uses the breaks to get the torque transfer left / right and this isn't ideal, but really for a road car in the UK it won't give you problems! Your X5 will have had a similar but much more basic system I believe.
In the snow on UK roads, the Allroad will probably actually be better than the X5. It's a fair bit lighter, and has a lower CofG so should get going easier, turn better and stop better. You will also get good fuel economy (a great benefit of the Ultra quattro system). I've been impressed with the ones I've driven across some quite testing terrain (albeit 2.0TDI, but with the same quattro Ultra).
I would always recommend a set of winters if it gets really bad where you are. (2WD with winter tyres will always be better than a 4x4 with summer tyres in the snow). If you don't want to go to the expense, do what most people do and forget another set of wheels, but run all seasons year-round (it'll be a heck of a lot better than summer tyres when it gets cold).
Don't be at all concerned about it's capability in the snow. These allroads are fantastic dynamically for the type of vehicle it is. I'm not sure if I can post youtube links, but if you search for a channel called 'Pashtette' it will give you a good idea of what they are capable of. So to answer your first question, yes they are great machines, but I'd opt for the smallest possible wheel diameter on this type of car.
Q2: yes, the quattro ultra type system (similar to, but not called haldex anymore) engages in reverse.
Q3: in reality for most people it engages so quickly you won't notice it. Infact, with the ultra system you will get less wheelspin than the audi torsen system on front to rear as the clutchpack locks up quickly whereas torsen is effectively a differential and gives more slip (heck, I think even the later X5's use a clutch pack system). In offroad mode the center clutch pack locks. The ultra system is better than some of the complained-about haldex systems of past, but it is inherently still a reactive system it will feel front wheel drive biased on the road (but most people won't really be able to tell). If your's is an E53 X5, you will have open diffs front / rear and this this Allroad will too but with with (what audi call) EDL (electronic diff lock). All that means is it uses the breaks to get the torque transfer left / right and this isn't ideal, but really for a road car in the UK it won't give you problems! Your X5 will have had a similar but much more basic system I believe.
In the snow on UK roads, the Allroad will probably actually be better than the X5. It's a fair bit lighter, and has a lower CofG so should get going easier, turn better and stop better. You will also get good fuel economy (a great benefit of the Ultra quattro system). I've been impressed with the ones I've driven across some quite testing terrain (albeit 2.0TDI, but with the same quattro Ultra).
I would always recommend a set of winters if it gets really bad where you are. (2WD with winter tyres will always be better than a 4x4 with summer tyres in the snow). If you don't want to go to the expense, do what most people do and forget another set of wheels, but run all seasons year-round (it'll be a heck of a lot better than summer tyres when it gets cold).
Thankyou for the comprehensive reply and you've managed to set my mind at ease.
My X5 is indeed the E53. After 15 yrs, it still has only 93000 miles and looks about 2 yrs old. I'll be sad to se it go.
The Allroad has 18's but I was considering a set of 17's with decent snow tyres for winter use.
Thanks again.
My X5 is indeed the E53. After 15 yrs, it still has only 93000 miles and looks about 2 yrs old. I'll be sad to se it go.
The Allroad has 18's but I was considering a set of 17's with decent snow tyres for winter use.
Thanks again.
djglover said:
Not quite the same but I had Octavia VRS 4x4 and with CrossClimates it was just as competent in the snow as my wife’s xc60 awd on winters
I went (with a short break) from an AWD Yeti with winters (Alpin 4 I think), to an AWD Golf Alltrack with Cross Climates. The winters were a bit better in snow, but the Cross climates are very good indeed.Easternlight
Not all A4's are the same it would appear.
The A4 Allroad with the 2.0 TFsi engine is front wheel drive until it detects slip and then becomes 4 wheel drive. This apparently makes a significant improvement on fuel economy. I'll soon find out!
I believe the other Allroads (diesel) are permanent 4 wheel drive.
Not all A4's are the same it would appear.
The A4 Allroad with the 2.0 TFsi engine is front wheel drive until it detects slip and then becomes 4 wheel drive. This apparently makes a significant improvement on fuel economy. I'll soon find out!
I believe the other Allroads (diesel) are permanent 4 wheel drive.
Easternlight said:
Leftlake.
I'm sure you are probably correct, but I was under the impression that the A4 range with longitudinal engines used the Torsen system with the 60/40 drive split, my S4 did but maybe that was different?
You are correct in that this used to be the case (and still is for some engine configurations). For instance, I have a B9 S4 that has the torsen system. The 3.0TDI's for the A4 and allroad also have torsen, but the 2.0TDI's and 2.0 petrol quattro's have the Quattro Ultra (or have done since the B9.5, for the B9 it was a bit more complicated depending on model year and transmission). I'm sure you are probably correct, but I was under the impression that the A4 range with longitudinal engines used the Torsen system with the 60/40 drive split, my S4 did but maybe that was different?
Ultimately there are pro's and cons of the two setups and they will both excel slightly differently depending on the exact terrain / loading / circumstances. For instance the torsen system is often raved about, but when unloaded (for example extreme snow/ice) it acts as an open differential and can be a bit useless from a hardware point of view (but Audi's cleaver breaking system will cut in and help it out). Even Subaru use a clutch plate center transmission (technically not a diff I know, but everyone calls it that) on all of their modern CVT transmission vehicles (pretty much the entire current UK lineup). They do have to get the software right and have them well implemented / calibrated, hence why some clutch pack systems are better than others (Audi / Subaru's recent ones are far better than Mercedes, from my experience), and also why many of the older systems didn't work so well (but there were some good ones)!
Edited by LeftLake on Saturday 8th May 11:59
Edited by LeftLake on Saturday 8th May 12:01
LeftLake said:
Easternlight said:
Leftlake.
I'm sure you are probably correct, but I was under the impression that the A4 range with longitudinal engines used the Torsen system with the 60/40 drive split, my S4 did but maybe that was different?
You are correct in that this used to be the case (and still is for some engine configurations). For instance, I have a B9 S4 that has the torsen system. The 3.0TDI's for the A4 and allroad also have torsen, but the 2.0TDI's and 2.0 petrol quattro's have the Quattro Ultra (or have done since the B9.5, for the B9 it was a bit more complicated depending on model year and transmission). I'm sure you are probably correct, but I was under the impression that the A4 range with longitudinal engines used the Torsen system with the 60/40 drive split, my S4 did but maybe that was different?
Ultimately there are pro's and cons of the two setups and they will both excel slightly differently depending on the exact terrain / loading / circumstances. For instance the torsen system is often raved about, but when unloaded (for example extreme snow/ice) it acts as an open differential and can be a bit useless from a hardware point of view (but Audi's cleaver breaking system will cut in and help it out). Even Subaru use a clutch plate center transmission (technically not a diff I know, but everyone calls it that) on all of their modern CVT transmission vehicles (pretty much the entire current UK lineup). They do have to get the software right and have them well implemented / calibrated, hence why some clutch pack systems are better than others (Audi / Subaru's recent ones are far better than Mercedes, from my experience), and also why many of the older systems didn't work so well (but there were some good ones)!
Edited by LeftLake on Saturday 8th May 11:59
Edited by LeftLake on Saturday 8th May 12:01
As ever the complexity of the modern automobile increases by the day!
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