A4 Tdi Clutch Judder
Discussion
My 2 year old 2.0Tdi has developed a noticeable judder when starting off in first and on changing into 2nd. On occasions it causes the car to stall. It's worse on inclines. I have had diesel Audi's and VW's before and never experienced this problem.
Before I take it up with the dealer has anyone suffered this problem or provide any insight. I have read about flywheel issues on other threads.
Before I take it up with the dealer has anyone suffered this problem or provide any insight. I have read about flywheel issues on other threads.
Book it in, we do lots of clutches for judder on A4's/A6 2.0TDI's, there are even a few modified parts in the new clutch kit.
Usually noticed only on pull away, unusually for 1st to 2nd gear change, are you slipping the clutch on the gear change?? changing very early low revs??.
If its really bad 1st to 2nd could be the dual mass flywheel but less likely, strongly advise when you speak to dealer you take a technician on road test with you to demonstrate the fault to him.
They are very very easy to stall, every body does it. You may find with a new clutch the judder is fixed but you still stall occasionally.
Hope this helps.
Usually noticed only on pull away, unusually for 1st to 2nd gear change, are you slipping the clutch on the gear change?? changing very early low revs??.
If its really bad 1st to 2nd could be the dual mass flywheel but less likely, strongly advise when you speak to dealer you take a technician on road test with you to demonstrate the fault to him.
They are very very easy to stall, every body does it. You may find with a new clutch the judder is fixed but you still stall occasionally.
Hope this helps.
NR123,
Judder on pulling away (when you slip the clutch) is knows as clutch judder and can happen on any car, But is a know issue on A4's/A6's. Judder on gear change is quite unusuall, unless you are slipping the clutch to much and changing gear a bit to early.
Your golf is unlikely to suffer in the same way as it has a smaller engine, with less torque, doesnt work the clutch hard enought to wear it so it judders.
Does your judder occur when someone else drives the car, it could just be a drving style thing and you need to adapt to how the car is. Or is could be a number of things, only driving it will tell, and I cant do that from here. What did your local VW dealer say when it was serviced??
Did you show them the fault, always do this, as a technicain you drive so many different cars, you offten can drive arround customer issues and not find anything wrong, you need to see how the customer drives, and replicate that. If you know what I mean.
Judder on pulling away (when you slip the clutch) is knows as clutch judder and can happen on any car, But is a know issue on A4's/A6's. Judder on gear change is quite unusuall, unless you are slipping the clutch to much and changing gear a bit to early.
Your golf is unlikely to suffer in the same way as it has a smaller engine, with less torque, doesnt work the clutch hard enought to wear it so it judders.
Does your judder occur when someone else drives the car, it could just be a drving style thing and you need to adapt to how the car is. Or is could be a number of things, only driving it will tell, and I cant do that from here. What did your local VW dealer say when it was serviced??
Did you show them the fault, always do this, as a technicain you drive so many different cars, you offten can drive arround customer issues and not find anything wrong, you need to see how the customer drives, and replicate that. If you know what I mean.
After service techs drive a short road test, only about 4-5 miles or so, If they felt the jerking, they should have reported it. But then if your not looking for it, you dont always notice. I often drive A3's with noisey turbos, and think, that turbos a bit noisey, but if there is no complaint, there is no problem.
Its in there interest to report any faults, so they can make more money out of you fixing it.
You probably should have said, whiles its in for service can you please check it for jerking.
My advise is always take a tech for a drive, show him what is doesm then let him have a go, so he feels it, then they know what there looking for.
You should ring the VW dealer, say the car was serviced recently and now its jerking, (this way they will have a quick look for free)
Ask if you can I pop in (and arrange a time) and take a tech out to show him. Then if he says, its nothing, dont worry. If he says, it need further investigation, or i think its a misfire or I think its the cluch then you can deside if you want to spend the money and have them look into it further.
Its in there interest to report any faults, so they can make more money out of you fixing it.
You probably should have said, whiles its in for service can you please check it for jerking.
My advise is always take a tech for a drive, show him what is doesm then let him have a go, so he feels it, then they know what there looking for.
You should ring the VW dealer, say the car was serviced recently and now its jerking, (this way they will have a quick look for free)
Ask if you can I pop in (and arrange a time) and take a tech out to show him. Then if he says, its nothing, dont worry. If he says, it need further investigation, or i think its a misfire or I think its the cluch then you can deside if you want to spend the money and have them look into it further.
Many thanks for the advice. I wouldn't say I am doing anything different in my driving style. My last car was a an A4 Tdi 130 quattro and the clutch/gearbox was fine. It was at 70000 miles when I sold it. This latest one never felt quite at ease. Changes between 2nd/3rd/ and 3rd/4th seem Ok but then these are generally when the car has decent momentum and feel less stressful.
I'll book it in.
I'll book it in.
Chas,
If its troubling you make sure it goes in before the warranty runs out. They will put a modified clutch in no question and ask you to try it again. If its still the same, they probably go for Dual mass flywheel.
Point is, its like £1000 of work, so make sure Audi are paying for it not yourself. Get her booked in before 3 years, 60,000 miles.
If its troubling you make sure it goes in before the warranty runs out. They will put a modified clutch in no question and ask you to try it again. If its still the same, they probably go for Dual mass flywheel.
Point is, its like £1000 of work, so make sure Audi are paying for it not yourself. Get her booked in before 3 years, 60,000 miles.
Tame Technician said:
Chas,
If its troubling you make sure it goes in before the warranty runs out. They will put a modified clutch in no question and ask you to try it again. If its still the same, they probably go for Dual mass flywheel.
Point is, its like £1000 of work, so make sure Audi are paying for it not yourself. Get her booked in before 3 years, 60,000 miles.
Hi Tame Tech,If its troubling you make sure it goes in before the warranty runs out. They will put a modified clutch in no question and ask you to try it again. If its still the same, they probably go for Dual mass flywheel.
Point is, its like £1000 of work, so make sure Audi are paying for it not yourself. Get her booked in before 3 years, 60,000 miles.
I have the same problemn a 2nd time around - its under a 2 year warranty just about to run out in May. (For some reason LEX had to pay for the replacement even though I said the reason it was worn was that it was juddering for a year or more but the dealer had consistently refused to deal with the issue)
My VW dealer still says its not bad enough to replace (said that before didn't he!), but I know its going to go the same way eventually. It started not long after it was first replaced.
Seen all your advice re. test driving etc with the technician, but are there any words or phrases that will put the fear of God into my dealer and make him crumble? Seems to me if they have revised the design its a design fault and free whenever it fails according to the sale of good act.
Was considering booking to a non-local dealer for its next service, conveniently due just before the clutch warranty expires, and asking them to check it, not mentioning warranty. As its 4 years old, they may advise I need to replace clutch, not realsiing its under VW warranty.
I was talking about cars with manufacturers warranty. Its easier to replaced bits where there is only slight evidence of a fault and retest the car.
Its gonna be much more complicated when the car is out of warranty, even if you have 2 year parts warranty on your clucth.
For example if they take it out and then find the flywheel looks over heated or has high spots, thats nothing to do with the clutch and you will be paying for that yourself About £600 for the part I think.
Also I'm pretty sure there is a modified clutch plate to reduce judder, but parts warranty will cover a replacement of the same component unless it has superseded and it might not have yet.
Best thing to do is take it to a different dealer, they know you and have told you its not bad enough to replace at your current one, so there no good.
Ask them to check the clutch when the car is service as you think its juddering, also ask is there not a modified part to fix this, a friend said there was a TPL or something about the clutch on ELSA. And ask them to price up what they think it needs if anything.
When you go to collect the car or when you get the call, and they say, it needs a new clucth, then tell them it had one less than 2 years ago and you believe there fore it has parts warranty on it. With a bit of luck you will get a new one for free, but to be honest I'd say your chances are 50/50.
Its gonna be much more complicated when the car is out of warranty, even if you have 2 year parts warranty on your clucth.
For example if they take it out and then find the flywheel looks over heated or has high spots, thats nothing to do with the clutch and you will be paying for that yourself About £600 for the part I think.
Also I'm pretty sure there is a modified clutch plate to reduce judder, but parts warranty will cover a replacement of the same component unless it has superseded and it might not have yet.
Best thing to do is take it to a different dealer, they know you and have told you its not bad enough to replace at your current one, so there no good.
Ask them to check the clutch when the car is service as you think its juddering, also ask is there not a modified part to fix this, a friend said there was a TPL or something about the clutch on ELSA. And ask them to price up what they think it needs if anything.
When you go to collect the car or when you get the call, and they say, it needs a new clucth, then tell them it had one less than 2 years ago and you believe there fore it has parts warranty on it. With a bit of luck you will get a new one for free, but to be honest I'd say your chances are 50/50.
Many thanks, appreciate the advice.
Still a bit galling as it seems like a basic design shortfall which should be covered anyway. I suppose contacting VW customer care is pointless? Vauxhall used to be quite good in this area - a design fault trashed our 2 year old Corsa engine (belt tensioner design fault) and they replaced the entire car FOC - although it was the last of a catalogue of other problems.
Still a bit galling as it seems like a basic design shortfall which should be covered anyway. I suppose contacting VW customer care is pointless? Vauxhall used to be quite good in this area - a design fault trashed our 2 year old Corsa engine (belt tensioner design fault) and they replaced the entire car FOC - although it was the last of a catalogue of other problems.
YES!! Its always worth a call to the manufacturers customer care people, they can often speed up any good will payment. As a dealer often our hands are tied, we want to keep customer X happy and replace his clutch, but cannot afford to do it for free if the manufacturers warranty isn't going to pay for it. Out of warranty, the best we can do is goodwill, and we have to aplly for that and it depends on a loads of factors, mileage have we seen the car before, service history etc.
If the manufacturers customer care peeps are involved often that 30 - 50% good will payment suddenly becomes 100%.
I think in your particular situation the Parts warranty could well cover the clutch, but you would be lucky to get good will on the flywheel if needed.
Ring the customer care line, explain the whole thing, particularly you complained about it before when car was in warranty, and that you believe you have parts warranty on the clucth, and they should be able to help.
I'm not sure weather it is best to take the car to the dealer or ring the customer care people first, up to you really. My plan of asking them to check the clutch for judder before you tell them its got parts warranty is a bit of a mean trick to make them admit there is something wrong. If they know in advance its got Parts warranty on it they might be more inclined to say its at an acceptable level for the car.
VAG ( + most car manufacturers) really aren't very good at admitting design flaws. The DRC on the RS4 and RS6's and the early multitronic gearbox's on A4 and A6 for examples are plagued with problems and still there is no admission from Audi that anything is wrong. But when the service advisors apply for goodwill for people with these particular issues, magically they are often fixed for free even out of warranty. Its a complicated thing and as a tech I dont get to involved but basically you get a bigger goodwill contribution with known issues.
Hope this helps.
If the manufacturers customer care peeps are involved often that 30 - 50% good will payment suddenly becomes 100%.
I think in your particular situation the Parts warranty could well cover the clutch, but you would be lucky to get good will on the flywheel if needed.
Ring the customer care line, explain the whole thing, particularly you complained about it before when car was in warranty, and that you believe you have parts warranty on the clucth, and they should be able to help.
I'm not sure weather it is best to take the car to the dealer or ring the customer care people first, up to you really. My plan of asking them to check the clutch for judder before you tell them its got parts warranty is a bit of a mean trick to make them admit there is something wrong. If they know in advance its got Parts warranty on it they might be more inclined to say its at an acceptable level for the car.
VAG ( + most car manufacturers) really aren't very good at admitting design flaws. The DRC on the RS4 and RS6's and the early multitronic gearbox's on A4 and A6 for examples are plagued with problems and still there is no admission from Audi that anything is wrong. But when the service advisors apply for goodwill for people with these particular issues, magically they are often fixed for free even out of warranty. Its a complicated thing and as a tech I dont get to involved but basically you get a bigger goodwill contribution with known issues.
Hope this helps.
I have this judder problem on my May 2006 registered 2.0 TDI S line Avant With 31,000 miles. its only realy noticeable when the car is cold So Ive booked it into Worcester Audi (They seem very helpfull) So they can try it when cold .
If it only does this judder thing when cold will they still replace the clutch assembly Or will they leave as is ?
My concern is that it may get worse once the warranty runs out in May Then the cost will fall to Me ??
Tame Tech As an aside Ive asked them to look at the ally finish door trims which have gone milky under the finish and cannot be polished out. Is this item still covered under the Audi warranty?
Can I respectfully insist on a clutch change or is it entirely at the dealer Techs descression ???
Thanks...
If it only does this judder thing when cold will they still replace the clutch assembly Or will they leave as is ?
My concern is that it may get worse once the warranty runs out in May Then the cost will fall to Me ??
Tame Tech As an aside Ive asked them to look at the ally finish door trims which have gone milky under the finish and cannot be polished out. Is this item still covered under the Audi warranty?
Can I respectfully insist on a clutch change or is it entirely at the dealer Techs descression ???
Thanks...
I have this judder problem on my May 2006 registered 2.0 TDI S line Avant With 31,000 miles. its only realy noticeable when the car is cold So Ive booked it into Worcester Audi (They seem very helpfull) So they can try it when cold .
If it only does this judder thing when cold will they still replace the clutch assembly Or will they leave as is ?
My concern is that it may get worse once the warranty runs out in May Then the cost will fall to Me ??
Tame Tech As an aside Ive asked them to look at the ally finish door trims which have gone milky under the finish and cannot be polished out. Is this item still covered under the Audi warranty?
Can I respectfully insist on a clutch change or is it entirely at the dealer Techs descression ???
Thanks...
If it only does this judder thing when cold will they still replace the clutch assembly Or will they leave as is ?
My concern is that it may get worse once the warranty runs out in May Then the cost will fall to Me ??
Tame Tech As an aside Ive asked them to look at the ally finish door trims which have gone milky under the finish and cannot be polished out. Is this item still covered under the Audi warranty?
Can I respectfully insist on a clutch change or is it entirely at the dealer Techs descression ???
Thanks...
Tame Technician said:
YES!! Its always worth a call to the manufacturers customer care people, they can often speed up any good will payment. As a dealer often our hands are tied, we want to keep customer X happy and replace his clutch, but cannot afford to do it for free if the manufacturers warranty isn't going to pay for it. Out of warranty, the best we can do is goodwill, and we have to aplly for that and it depends on a loads of factors, mileage have we seen the car before, service history etc.
If the manufacturers customer care peeps are involved often that 30 - 50% good will payment suddenly becomes 100%.
I think in your particular situation the Parts warranty could well cover the clutch, but you would be lucky to get good will on the flywheel if needed.
Ring the customer care line, explain the whole thing, particularly you complained about it before when car was in warranty, and that you believe you have parts warranty on the clucth, and they should be able to help.
I'm not sure weather it is best to take the car to the dealer or ring the customer care people first, up to you really. My plan of asking them to check the clutch for judder before you tell them its got parts warranty is a bit of a mean trick to make them admit there is something wrong. If they know in advance its got Parts warranty on it they might be more inclined to say its at an acceptable level for the car.
VAG ( + most car manufacturers) really aren't very good at admitting design flaws. The DRC on the RS4 and RS6's and the early multitronic gearbox's on A4 and A6 for examples are plagued with problems and still there is no admission from Audi that anything is wrong. But when the service advisors apply for goodwill for people with these particular issues, magically they are often fixed for free even out of warranty. Its a complicated thing and as a tech I dont get to involved but basically you get a bigger goodwill contribution with known issues.
Hope this helps.
Thanks once again - Both clutch and DMF were replaced last time (and some other part costing £10 after the replacement of those still left it with a judder and they had to dismantle a 2nd time even before I had it back), so I guess both are covered. If the manufacturers customer care peeps are involved often that 30 - 50% good will payment suddenly becomes 100%.
I think in your particular situation the Parts warranty could well cover the clutch, but you would be lucky to get good will on the flywheel if needed.
Ring the customer care line, explain the whole thing, particularly you complained about it before when car was in warranty, and that you believe you have parts warranty on the clucth, and they should be able to help.
I'm not sure weather it is best to take the car to the dealer or ring the customer care people first, up to you really. My plan of asking them to check the clutch for judder before you tell them its got parts warranty is a bit of a mean trick to make them admit there is something wrong. If they know in advance its got Parts warranty on it they might be more inclined to say its at an acceptable level for the car.
VAG ( + most car manufacturers) really aren't very good at admitting design flaws. The DRC on the RS4 and RS6's and the early multitronic gearbox's on A4 and A6 for examples are plagued with problems and still there is no admission from Audi that anything is wrong. But when the service advisors apply for goodwill for people with these particular issues, magically they are often fixed for free even out of warranty. Its a complicated thing and as a tech I dont get to involved but basically you get a bigger goodwill contribution with known issues.
Hope this helps.
Yes, its is a bit of trick to get them to admit the fault first before knowing its under warranty, but its a dirtier one for VAG to err on the side of "its OK" when the reason is that they don't want to pay out and just want it to fail outside warranty.
I know why they do it of course, but if they can play games on one side of the fence, I am happy to play them on the other side! And how they deal with me may decide if I go for an A4/A6 next time or a 5-Series. (no, I don't kid myself BMW don't have issues too - in fact the arrogance of BMW dealers in general really concerns me and I wonder what support I might get if I had a problem)
chuckh said:
I have this judder problem on my May 2006 registered 2.0 TDI S line Avant With 31,000 miles. its only realy noticeable when the car is cold So Ive booked it into Worcester Audi (They seem very helpfull) So they can try it when cold .
If it only does this judder thing when cold will they still replace the clutch assembly Or will they leave as is ?
My concern is that it may get worse once the warranty runs out in May Then the cost will fall to Me ??
Tame Tech As an aside Ive asked them to look at the ally finish door trims which have gone milky under the finish and cannot be polished out. Is this item still covered under the Audi warranty?
Can I respectfully insist on a clutch change or is it entirely at the dealer Techs descression ???
Thanks...
The problem is the parts we take off the cars go back to Audi and get examined. IF we change a clutch and on inspiration they decide its within spec, they take the money off us. In times like these dealers cant afford massive warranty debits. So it does have to be quite obviously faulty. Ultimately its down to the individual technician but if they are unsure the dealers master tech and or even service manager can have the final say. Best thing to do in all cases is ask to speak the the master tech or when possible take him out for a drive. If they can see what your on about they will pretty much OK a replacement then. This is only the case for manufacturers warranty. When its parts warranty and goodwill, its out of the techs hands. If it only does this judder thing when cold will they still replace the clutch assembly Or will they leave as is ?
My concern is that it may get worse once the warranty runs out in May Then the cost will fall to Me ??
Tame Tech As an aside Ive asked them to look at the ally finish door trims which have gone milky under the finish and cannot be polished out. Is this item still covered under the Audi warranty?
Can I respectfully insist on a clutch change or is it entirely at the dealer Techs descression ???
Thanks...
Gassing Station | Audi, Seat, Skoda & VW | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff