New A4/A5 - designed specifically for people who hop???
Discussion
While waiting for service in my local Audi dealer the other day I took the opportunity, as any right-minded person does, to poke about in the new cars I can't afford. The RS6 was gorrrrrrrrrrgeous, and I want one very much. Please. However...
The A5 was a much more realistic prospect, so I also forced myself to look at that. Great looking car in my opinion, loved everything about it. EXCEPT. Who on Earth at Audi signed off the RHD version as being acceptable to inflict on the marketplace? Or are they specifically seeking to show what a caring, sharing, disability-friendly company they are by designing an entire model range to be suitable only for lower left leg amputees???
I cannot imagine the moment when the responsible engineer sat in the RHD version of the A5 (or A4, for that matter) and thought "Hmm. Okay. Well, the clutch pedal is approximately just outside the driver's door, I can't press it without also hitting the footrest, and when not attempting to use the clutch there's not room between the pedal and the tunnel to put my foot on the footrest. At all times, the encroaching tunnel leads me to be generally arranged in a slightly squished, twisted kind of way. Yup, that'll do..."
Please don't get me wrong, I like Audis - I have an Audi - I am not predisposed to slating them. I also apologise if you have one of these cars - I'm sure you have your reasons. Maybe you hop. But for me, much as I really do like the A5 (and A4, if I'm forced to be practical) and would otherwise be very happy to have one, this appalling piece of under-engineering absolutely 100% guarantees I would never buy one, at any price.
Being able to sit comfortably in a car and for it to adequately accommodate my limbs in broadly the places where they naturally wish to fall is not something I consider a nice-to-have - for 30k+ I don't think that's too much to ask. The car would have been only marginally less appealing had I opened the door and found a spike where the seat should be. Madness Audi - absolute, shoddy, inexcusable madness. Not good enough at all.
Okay, I'm done!
Anyone else think the same, or is it just me?!
S.
The A5 was a much more realistic prospect, so I also forced myself to look at that. Great looking car in my opinion, loved everything about it. EXCEPT. Who on Earth at Audi signed off the RHD version as being acceptable to inflict on the marketplace? Or are they specifically seeking to show what a caring, sharing, disability-friendly company they are by designing an entire model range to be suitable only for lower left leg amputees???
I cannot imagine the moment when the responsible engineer sat in the RHD version of the A5 (or A4, for that matter) and thought "Hmm. Okay. Well, the clutch pedal is approximately just outside the driver's door, I can't press it without also hitting the footrest, and when not attempting to use the clutch there's not room between the pedal and the tunnel to put my foot on the footrest. At all times, the encroaching tunnel leads me to be generally arranged in a slightly squished, twisted kind of way. Yup, that'll do..."
Please don't get me wrong, I like Audis - I have an Audi - I am not predisposed to slating them. I also apologise if you have one of these cars - I'm sure you have your reasons. Maybe you hop. But for me, much as I really do like the A5 (and A4, if I'm forced to be practical) and would otherwise be very happy to have one, this appalling piece of under-engineering absolutely 100% guarantees I would never buy one, at any price.
Being able to sit comfortably in a car and for it to adequately accommodate my limbs in broadly the places where they naturally wish to fall is not something I consider a nice-to-have - for 30k+ I don't think that's too much to ask. The car would have been only marginally less appealing had I opened the door and found a spike where the seat should be. Madness Audi - absolute, shoddy, inexcusable madness. Not good enough at all.
Okay, I'm done!
Anyone else think the same, or is it just me?!
S.
I'm with you on that Steve - same reason we still have our B6 model A4 at the moment. Love the A5 but same footwell problem = no thanks from us.
The rumour mill says that the forthcoming A5 Sportback has a slightly longer wheelbase. I'm hoping they use that to correct the footwell problem. Otherwise I expect it's an A6 for us.
The rumour mill says that the forthcoming A5 Sportback has a slightly longer wheelbase. I'm hoping they use that to correct the footwell problem. Otherwise I expect it's an A6 for us.
Ive got the previous shape A4. While it was in having some warranty work the garage loaned me a new A4 for 2 months. I came on here and posted exactly the same thing. Thought it was terrible.
However, after a week or so, I have to confess, and maybe I just learnt to live with it, I didnt give it a second thought. Ended up just laying the left leg down the transmission tunel. Job done.
Now, if only I can find a manual (used) current S4 in my colour choice and at the right price :scratctchin:. Guess I'll have to wait a few more months
However, after a week or so, I have to confess, and maybe I just learnt to live with it, I didnt give it a second thought. Ended up just laying the left leg down the transmission tunel. Job done.
Now, if only I can find a manual (used) current S4 in my colour choice and at the right price :scratctchin:. Guess I'll have to wait a few more months
Okay, well, not everyone, but not just me either - that's a good enough! 
I was aware that (smaller) BMWs have a similar issue, and that's always been a significant factor in my never having owned one. In BMW's case though my recollection of assorted test drives is that the problem is not as pronounced as in these latest Audis - there seemed to be a bit more space. I've always thought a BMW's footwell would be okay if the car had an auto box, but in these latest Audis I just felt there was nowhere near enough general leg/foot room for such large and expensive cars, even in the absence of a clutch pedal. The tunnel encoraches to such an extent that the whole seating postion was unpleasantly cramped and skewed.
I can understand comments that you just get used to it and work around it - I'm sure that's true. My personal view though is that in a brand new car costing this much money and with such accomplished competition, it's just not good enough. I don't need to accept that sort of compromise - if I'm spending 30k I don't want to have to work around my car's fundamentally unresolved engineering.
If I was buying a Lotus or a Caterham then okay, I accept I need to compromise. But in a car like this, failing to provide adequate comfortable accommodation for the driver is absurd. I'm sure the LHD version is fine - it gives the impression of a degree of contempt for RHD markets - strange and rather sad, given that I believe the UK is Audi's largest market outside Germany.
I hope they sort it out at the earliest opportunity - I REALLY want to want an A5... not like this though.
By the way UVB - I had a loan A6 3.0 TDi Le Mans for a few weeks recently - verrrry nice! Certainly no problems there!
I was aware that (smaller) BMWs have a similar issue, and that's always been a significant factor in my never having owned one. In BMW's case though my recollection of assorted test drives is that the problem is not as pronounced as in these latest Audis - there seemed to be a bit more space. I've always thought a BMW's footwell would be okay if the car had an auto box, but in these latest Audis I just felt there was nowhere near enough general leg/foot room for such large and expensive cars, even in the absence of a clutch pedal. The tunnel encoraches to such an extent that the whole seating postion was unpleasantly cramped and skewed.
I can understand comments that you just get used to it and work around it - I'm sure that's true. My personal view though is that in a brand new car costing this much money and with such accomplished competition, it's just not good enough. I don't need to accept that sort of compromise - if I'm spending 30k I don't want to have to work around my car's fundamentally unresolved engineering.
If I was buying a Lotus or a Caterham then okay, I accept I need to compromise. But in a car like this, failing to provide adequate comfortable accommodation for the driver is absurd. I'm sure the LHD version is fine - it gives the impression of a degree of contempt for RHD markets - strange and rather sad, given that I believe the UK is Audi's largest market outside Germany.
I hope they sort it out at the earliest opportunity - I REALLY want to want an A5... not like this though.
By the way UVB - I had a loan A6 3.0 TDi Le Mans for a few weeks recently - verrrry nice! Certainly no problems there!
Steve081974 said:
By the way UVB - I had a loan A6 3.0 TDi Le Mans for a few weeks recently - verrrry nice! Certainly no problems there!
Argh don't say that! I'd just about weaned myself off the idea of getting one! I'm torn between the idea of the high spec one at Fontain, a nice shiny pre registered 2.0tdi 170 S-Line (*yawn* nice mpg) or the though of going for an S6 as they seem to be good money at the moment. I've driven an S6 some time ago and like it a lot, but I can tell my wife doesn't like the idea of 21mpg.Back to the original topic, I remember looking at the new Z3 at the NEC when it was just coming into the UK. One sit in the drivers seat was enough to convince me it wasn't an option compared to the Boxster due to the pedals being too far off to the right. Wife had a 325i compact for a while and that was fine. The problem for me with the new A4/5 is that there's no comfortable way to extend your left leg and I think that might give me problems around the lower back/hip area longer term. I suffer badly from back problems though so I'm perhaps an exception to the rule.
UVB - go on, you know you want to! 
Without wishing to stir up marital strife, I would suggest that the 3.0TDi Le Mans is a good compromise between the slightly unsexy frugality of a 2.0TDi and the exciting but heavy drinking S6.
The 3.0TDi engine was substantially revised sometime last year/early this (I think coinciding with the new tail lights and assorted odds and sods, but not certain about that). The car I had was registered in March '08 and had the old spec engine (222 'CO2s', vs I think 189 for an auto with the new engine), but still managed 40-42 mpg without any special effort, and once on an easy run into work a slightly freaky 47. Admittedly I'm generally an out of town driver, and when I picked it up its several thousand mile average was 33, but as a dealer demo I suspect that's a reasonable indication of the minimum you should expect given pretty enthusiastic use.
If your wife-approved budget stretches to a new spec 3.0TDi you could probably add 6 or 7 mpg to these figures - and I think you'll get another 7 bhp and about 11% more torque too (not something I found lacking in the first place).
As a drive, the 3.0 has a grin-inducing enthusiasm the 2.0 lacks, and with 4wd it leaps out of side roads in an appealingly fuss-free and sure-footed way. The Le Mans spec looks pretty sexy, the handling is good for such a big lump, it's a pleasantly relaxed cruiser when not pressing on, and - best of all - there's room for both legs. So... what are you waiting for?!
By the way - completely agree re the problem of not being able to stretch/straighten/move your left leg in the A4/A5 - that's exactly the issue, it's not just that the clutch pedal is in the wrong place. I don't have any particular physical limitation to exacerbate the problem, I just don't wish to feel hemmed in by bits of my car being where bits of me should be..!
S.
Without wishing to stir up marital strife, I would suggest that the 3.0TDi Le Mans is a good compromise between the slightly unsexy frugality of a 2.0TDi and the exciting but heavy drinking S6.
The 3.0TDi engine was substantially revised sometime last year/early this (I think coinciding with the new tail lights and assorted odds and sods, but not certain about that). The car I had was registered in March '08 and had the old spec engine (222 'CO2s', vs I think 189 for an auto with the new engine), but still managed 40-42 mpg without any special effort, and once on an easy run into work a slightly freaky 47. Admittedly I'm generally an out of town driver, and when I picked it up its several thousand mile average was 33, but as a dealer demo I suspect that's a reasonable indication of the minimum you should expect given pretty enthusiastic use.
If your wife-approved budget stretches to a new spec 3.0TDi you could probably add 6 or 7 mpg to these figures - and I think you'll get another 7 bhp and about 11% more torque too (not something I found lacking in the first place).
As a drive, the 3.0 has a grin-inducing enthusiasm the 2.0 lacks, and with 4wd it leaps out of side roads in an appealingly fuss-free and sure-footed way. The Le Mans spec looks pretty sexy, the handling is good for such a big lump, it's a pleasantly relaxed cruiser when not pressing on, and - best of all - there's room for both legs. So... what are you waiting for?!
By the way - completely agree re the problem of not being able to stretch/straighten/move your left leg in the A4/A5 - that's exactly the issue, it's not just that the clutch pedal is in the wrong place. I don't have any particular physical limitation to exacerbate the problem, I just don't wish to feel hemmed in by bits of my car being where bits of me should be..!
S.
Steve081974 said:
UVB - go on, you know you want to!
Without wishing to stir up marital strife, I would suggest that the 3.0TDi Le Mans is a good compromise between the slightly unsexy frugality of a 2.0TDi and the exciting but heavy drinking S6.
The 3.0TDi engine was substantially revised sometime last year/early this (I think coinciding with the new tail lights and assorted odds and sods, but not certain about that). The car I had was registered in March '08 and had the old spec engine (222 'CO2s', vs I think 189 for an auto with the new engine), but still managed 40-42 mpg without any special effort, and once on an easy run into work a slightly freaky 47. Admittedly I'm generally an out of town driver, and when I picked it up its several thousand mile average was 33, but as a dealer demo I suspect that's a reasonable indication of the minimum you should expect given pretty enthusiastic use.
If your wife-approved budget stretches to a new spec 3.0TDi you could probably add 6 or 7 mpg to these figures - and I think you'll get another 7 bhp and about 11% more torque too (not something I found lacking in the first place).
As a drive, the 3.0 has a grin-inducing enthusiasm the 2.0 lacks, and with 4wd it leaps out of side roads in an appealingly fuss-free and sure-footed way. The Le Mans spec looks pretty sexy, the handling is good for such a big lump, it's a pleasantly relaxed cruiser when not pressing on, and - best of all - there's room for both legs. So... what are you waiting for?!
By the way - completely agree re the problem of not being able to stretch/straighten/move your left leg in the A4/A5 - that's exactly the issue, it's not just that the clutch pedal is in the wrong place. I don't have any particular physical limitation to exacerbate the problem, I just don't wish to feel hemmed in by bits of my car being where bits of me should be..!
S.
+1Without wishing to stir up marital strife, I would suggest that the 3.0TDi Le Mans is a good compromise between the slightly unsexy frugality of a 2.0TDi and the exciting but heavy drinking S6.
The 3.0TDi engine was substantially revised sometime last year/early this (I think coinciding with the new tail lights and assorted odds and sods, but not certain about that). The car I had was registered in March '08 and had the old spec engine (222 'CO2s', vs I think 189 for an auto with the new engine), but still managed 40-42 mpg without any special effort, and once on an easy run into work a slightly freaky 47. Admittedly I'm generally an out of town driver, and when I picked it up its several thousand mile average was 33, but as a dealer demo I suspect that's a reasonable indication of the minimum you should expect given pretty enthusiastic use.
If your wife-approved budget stretches to a new spec 3.0TDi you could probably add 6 or 7 mpg to these figures - and I think you'll get another 7 bhp and about 11% more torque too (not something I found lacking in the first place).
As a drive, the 3.0 has a grin-inducing enthusiasm the 2.0 lacks, and with 4wd it leaps out of side roads in an appealingly fuss-free and sure-footed way. The Le Mans spec looks pretty sexy, the handling is good for such a big lump, it's a pleasantly relaxed cruiser when not pressing on, and - best of all - there's room for both legs. So... what are you waiting for?!
By the way - completely agree re the problem of not being able to stretch/straighten/move your left leg in the A4/A5 - that's exactly the issue, it's not just that the clutch pedal is in the wrong place. I don't have any particular physical limitation to exacerbate the problem, I just don't wish to feel hemmed in by bits of my car being where bits of me should be..!
S.
Thats why I have an A6 Le Mans 3.0tdi
I'm quite taken with the idea of a Le Mans 3.0tdi quattro on paper, but have heard the ride can be a little uncomfortable on the larger wheels. This is of course very much subjective - the same was meant to apply to the S Line spec cars as well, but having driven a 2.0tdi in SE and S Line spec back-to-back, I found the SE ride was affected by the same bumps regardless, but just wallowed more after it had hit them. That sealed the deal to eliminate SE spec from my list.
If the same proves true of the Le Mans then it will probably suit me down to the ground. I love the quattro in our A4, except for the weight of it and the engine being a little too much to keep the brakes un-warped. Hope this doesn't affect A6's as badly. My other car is beached at the dealers for the moment and we've been given a 520D loan car, so I might take the opportunity to take that down to Fontain and try a Le Mans back to back this week....
If the same proves true of the Le Mans then it will probably suit me down to the ground. I love the quattro in our A4, except for the weight of it and the engine being a little too much to keep the brakes un-warped. Hope this doesn't affect A6's as badly. My other car is beached at the dealers for the moment and we've been given a 520D loan car, so I might take the opportunity to take that down to Fontain and try a Le Mans back to back this week....
UVB said:
I'm quite taken with the idea of a Le Mans 3.0tdi quattro on paper, but have heard the ride can be a little uncomfortable on the larger wheels. This is of course very much subjective - the same was meant to apply to the S Line spec cars as well, but having driven a 2.0tdi in SE and S Line spec back-to-back, I found the SE ride was affected by the same bumps regardless, but just wallowed more after it had hit them. That sealed the deal to eliminate SE spec from my list.
If the same proves true of the Le Mans then it will probably suit me down to the ground. I love the quattro in our A4, except for the weight of it and the engine being a little too much to keep the brakes un-warped. Hope this doesn't affect A6's as badly. My other car is beached at the dealers for the moment and we've been given a 520D loan car, so I might take the opportunity to take that down to Fontain and try a Le Mans back to back this week....
The ride is about the same as the S-line, although tyres can make a difference, I have just put vredstein ultrac seesantas on my A6 Le Mans an the ride is smoother than it was with the dunlops, although they are the same quoted size in reality they look slightly less low in profile. Turn in and feel is still just as good.If the same proves true of the Le Mans then it will probably suit me down to the ground. I love the quattro in our A4, except for the weight of it and the engine being a little too much to keep the brakes un-warped. Hope this doesn't affect A6's as badly. My other car is beached at the dealers for the moment and we've been given a 520D loan car, so I might take the opportunity to take that down to Fontain and try a Le Mans back to back this week....
I had a BMW 525d sport before the A6 and although ultimately the BMW had better handling, as a car for all purposes I think that the A6 is musch better, its a nicer place to sit, the ride is better and the quality is better.
Like you UVB I had low expectations of an A6 on 19 inch wheels before I drove it, however in 1000+ miles I never found it uncomfortable, and given that it handles surprisingly well, I actually think the ride is pretty good!
If you're used to an Jaguar XJ I'm sure it's a jiggly nightmare, but I like my cars to feel more GTi than sofa and if your tastes are similar I'd be surprised if the ride put you off - I much prefer the ride/handling/steering of the A6 Le Mans to that on my now rather tedious A3..!
I'd also echo Blue's comment that it's just a very nice place to be - if I could afford one, I'd have one! Happy shopping!
S.
If you're used to an Jaguar XJ I'm sure it's a jiggly nightmare, but I like my cars to feel more GTi than sofa and if your tastes are similar I'd be surprised if the ride put you off - I much prefer the ride/handling/steering of the A6 Le Mans to that on my now rather tedious A3..!
I'd also echo Blue's comment that it's just a very nice place to be - if I could afford one, I'd have one! Happy shopping!
S.
EC2 said:
Agree completely. Have a B6 S4 and would like a B8 but the clutch is in the wrong place. A3 is fine so might have an S3 Sportback instead but prefer just to be annoyed with Audi as its cheaper!
PS Especially as B6 S4 now worth very little.
Move here. To get the first of the B6 S4's with above average kms you'd be looking at around 23000 quid. PS Especially as B6 S4 now worth very little.
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