Golf VR6 Non start Fuel problem.
Discussion
Mrs Metals car.
Stuttered and stalled at the lights, and then would start.
I got there and it started, idled for a few seconds and stopped.
Wouldn't start again.
Towed it home.
Circuit tested all four terminals on the fuel pump connector, no power.
Ditto on cranking the engine.
Any suggestions appreciated.
Stuttered and stalled at the lights, and then would start.
I got there and it started, idled for a few seconds and stopped.
Wouldn't start again.
Towed it home.
Circuit tested all four terminals on the fuel pump connector, no power.
Ditto on cranking the engine.
Any suggestions appreciated.
Do you get any of the dashboard lights and starter motor clicking when you try to start it?
If you dont but are certain the battery has power then it could well be the ignition switch has failed.
Have you tried a spare key? the later post 1995 VR6s have a immobaliser with a transponder in the key- if this fails the ECU wont recognise the key and the immobaliser will remain on.
Let us know how you get on.
Dave
If you dont but are certain the battery has power then it could well be the ignition switch has failed.
Have you tried a spare key? the later post 1995 VR6s have a immobaliser with a transponder in the key- if this fails the ECU wont recognise the key and the immobaliser will remain on.
Let us know how you get on.
Dave
if it wouldnt start by tow start then it can still be the immobaliser and transponder playing up as these wouldnt allow the fuel pump to run and the injectors to pulse.
The ECU has a relay which is numbered 109 on the fuse box. Its on the lower level. When you are cranking the engine check to see if the relay is clicking - lots of irratic clicking or nothing at all suggests its dead. They are £20 or so from the dealer or you can try taking the existing one apart and cleaning the contacts a bit.
The ECU has a relay which is numbered 109 on the fuse box. Its on the lower level. When you are cranking the engine check to see if the relay is clicking - lots of irratic clicking or nothing at all suggests its dead. They are £20 or so from the dealer or you can try taking the existing one apart and cleaning the contacts a bit.
How are you sure that the imobaliser is working fine? Have you tried your spare key (if you have one)
Not sure if you have said if you can hear the fuel pump prime or not?
The fuse box lid has the list of what fuse is in what position printed on it , so you ought to be able to find the fuel pump fuse. Have you tried testing to see if there is power getting to the fuel pump? You can get to the intank pump from the cover under the rear carpet and then check for continuity between the pump and the fusebox.
I know it sounds obvious but have you had a good look around the engine bay for any wires and vacuum pipes that could have fallen off? There are a series of vacuum pipes and electrical plugs around the throttle body. Also check the engine earths especially the ECU and the one from the battery negative to the gearbox or side of the block. Its worth just whipping them all off giving them a quick sand and make sure they are put back tight.
The only other thing i can think of right now is if your car is a earlier odb1 with a dizzy on it so you have a hall sender. My gti 16v had a hall sender issue and that wouldnt start for ages then if you wiggled the sensor just the right way it would then allow the engine to start and run fine but if i hit a bump the engine would cut out. The hall sender uses a signal combined with that of the coil to tell the fuel pump that the engine is running hence keep working, if the signal to the fuel pump is interupted the pump will assume you have switched engine off or stalled.
If you have a later model odb2 vr6 then the hall sender is in the block behind the coil pack. In both cases it is wise to clean up the hall sender electrical connections and reassemble. Crank position sensor or sometimes called engine speed sensor can fail, i am not 100% certain what effect this has on fueling but when one failed on my Saab the engine became erratic like it was suffering fuel starvation, would cut out and sometimes restart instantly other times 10+ attempts.
do you have access to VAGCOM - the on board diagnostics program. You can still use it when the engine is not running to read stored engine faults. dave
Not sure if you have said if you can hear the fuel pump prime or not?
The fuse box lid has the list of what fuse is in what position printed on it , so you ought to be able to find the fuel pump fuse. Have you tried testing to see if there is power getting to the fuel pump? You can get to the intank pump from the cover under the rear carpet and then check for continuity between the pump and the fusebox.
I know it sounds obvious but have you had a good look around the engine bay for any wires and vacuum pipes that could have fallen off? There are a series of vacuum pipes and electrical plugs around the throttle body. Also check the engine earths especially the ECU and the one from the battery negative to the gearbox or side of the block. Its worth just whipping them all off giving them a quick sand and make sure they are put back tight.
The only other thing i can think of right now is if your car is a earlier odb1 with a dizzy on it so you have a hall sender. My gti 16v had a hall sender issue and that wouldnt start for ages then if you wiggled the sensor just the right way it would then allow the engine to start and run fine but if i hit a bump the engine would cut out. The hall sender uses a signal combined with that of the coil to tell the fuel pump that the engine is running hence keep working, if the signal to the fuel pump is interupted the pump will assume you have switched engine off or stalled.
If you have a later model odb2 vr6 then the hall sender is in the block behind the coil pack. In both cases it is wise to clean up the hall sender electrical connections and reassemble. Crank position sensor or sometimes called engine speed sensor can fail, i am not 100% certain what effect this has on fueling but when one failed on my Saab the engine became erratic like it was suffering fuel starvation, would cut out and sometimes restart instantly other times 10+ attempts.
do you have access to VAGCOM - the on board diagnostics program. You can still use it when the engine is not running to read stored engine faults. dave
Thanks for you great post Kerrly.
Top quality, very informed, and helpful, thanks.
Its not the immobiliser, the car sparks, and has run.
Believe me, Ive tried both keys, just for the sake of it.
Ive also replaced the fuel pump relay, no difference.
There is no power at the fuel pump with the ign on,with or without the starter actuating.
The four teminals on the conn are dead.
The circuit tester remains unlit when connected to each of the 4 terminals.
A simple test of the circuit tester by connecting the pointy end to the plus side of the car 12volt battery under the bonnet, at the front, and the clamp to the negative side, produces an illumination from within the bulb proving the presence of a potential difference across the tester.
This doesn't happen when the Snap On Tester is applied to earth and the four teminals of the fuel pump with the ignition on, +/- the starter actuating.
This leads me to believe their is no voltage going to the pump.
Because of this, the fuel pump does not prime. It needs electricity to work.
This is a fuel pump problem. The fuel pump is't working when connected.
I think its because there is no power, voltage, there.
Either the pump fuse has blown, or the pump has failed, blowing the fuse.
The fusebox cover is missing, do you know the fuel pump fuse number ?
I cannot be ar5ed to remove and replace every one.
I hope this is a clear enough explanation.
Ta.
Top quality, very informed, and helpful, thanks.
Its not the immobiliser, the car sparks, and has run.
Believe me, Ive tried both keys, just for the sake of it.
Ive also replaced the fuel pump relay, no difference.
There is no power at the fuel pump with the ign on,with or without the starter actuating.
The four teminals on the conn are dead.
The circuit tester remains unlit when connected to each of the 4 terminals.
A simple test of the circuit tester by connecting the pointy end to the plus side of the car 12volt battery under the bonnet, at the front, and the clamp to the negative side, produces an illumination from within the bulb proving the presence of a potential difference across the tester.
This doesn't happen when the Snap On Tester is applied to earth and the four teminals of the fuel pump with the ignition on, +/- the starter actuating.
This leads me to believe their is no voltage going to the pump.
Because of this, the fuel pump does not prime. It needs electricity to work.
This is a fuel pump problem. The fuel pump is't working when connected.
I think its because there is no power, voltage, there.
Either the pump fuse has blown, or the pump has failed, blowing the fuse.
The fusebox cover is missing, do you know the fuel pump fuse number ?
I cannot be ar5ed to remove and replace every one.
I hope this is a clear enough explanation.
Ta.
hi fella,
So it definately seems like the issue is getting power to the pump. You could try getting a battery and powering the pump directly just to ensure that the pump actually works, i realise you said the engine ran a bit and then wouldnt but this test should rule out the pump itself being the culprit.
The fuel pump should be fuse number 18 on the front of the fusebox - on the right hand side i think it is 2nd or 3rd from the end. I know on a mk2 golf it is a awkward bugger to get to in less you remove the lower dash panel *( only 4screws or something like that)
If you change the fuse and still nothing then id turn my attention to the back of the fuse box to make sure a wire hasnt fallen out or something silly like that. It is not unheard of for people to accidently kick the fusebox and dislodge wires.
On the ack of the box position 30-30B is the fuel pump relay.
Then looking at block M there is the live wire and earth wire for the fuel pump. I think* and im going off a mk3 16v here as ive not butchured a VR yet but i have been researching a VR6 into a mk2 swap that the main live is a yellow+ red wire and earth is brown.
Have a look at this diagram to assertain where the blocks are. It is possible to unhook the fuse box from the 2 pins that it is supported by giving you much better access behind it.
http://www.bentleypublishers.com/tech/vw/bentley.v...
Fingers crossed it is just a fuse but idealy you need to establish why the fuse died. When you looked at the pump and tested the continuety was the multi plug to the pump in good condition - were there any signs of corrossion ie green spades/contacts as this may indicate if moisture is getting to the connectors.
Good luck
dave
So it definately seems like the issue is getting power to the pump. You could try getting a battery and powering the pump directly just to ensure that the pump actually works, i realise you said the engine ran a bit and then wouldnt but this test should rule out the pump itself being the culprit.
The fuel pump should be fuse number 18 on the front of the fusebox - on the right hand side i think it is 2nd or 3rd from the end. I know on a mk2 golf it is a awkward bugger to get to in less you remove the lower dash panel *( only 4screws or something like that)
If you change the fuse and still nothing then id turn my attention to the back of the fuse box to make sure a wire hasnt fallen out or something silly like that. It is not unheard of for people to accidently kick the fusebox and dislodge wires.
On the ack of the box position 30-30B is the fuel pump relay.
Then looking at block M there is the live wire and earth wire for the fuel pump. I think* and im going off a mk3 16v here as ive not butchured a VR yet but i have been researching a VR6 into a mk2 swap that the main live is a yellow+ red wire and earth is brown.
Have a look at this diagram to assertain where the blocks are. It is possible to unhook the fuse box from the 2 pins that it is supported by giving you much better access behind it.
http://www.bentleypublishers.com/tech/vw/bentley.v...
Fingers crossed it is just a fuse but idealy you need to establish why the fuse died. When you looked at the pump and tested the continuety was the multi plug to the pump in good condition - were there any signs of corrossion ie green spades/contacts as this may indicate if moisture is getting to the connectors.
Good luck
dave
When you fit a new pump best thing to do is fit a new filter as well as it has been known for mechanics including VW ones to be sloppy and forget/not bother changing fuel filters at services.
It is worth shining a torch into the tank to see how much residue is at the bottom - by any chance have you recently run the tank quite low?? That may account for the pump failure as it sucked up a load of gravel - believe me i was shocked when i drained the tank on my golf and found a muddy/silty mix that you would expect to find at the bottom of a river!
All the best!
Dave
It is worth shining a torch into the tank to see how much residue is at the bottom - by any chance have you recently run the tank quite low?? That may account for the pump failure as it sucked up a load of gravel - believe me i was shocked when i drained the tank on my golf and found a muddy/silty mix that you would expect to find at the bottom of a river!
All the best!
Dave
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