Severe tyre noise on S4 Avant when tyres are half worn
Discussion
Has anyone else had a problem with tyre noise on the Audi S4 - or any other car come to that? I am halfway through a set of Continental Sport Contact 3 235/40 R18Y - they replaced a set of Continental Sport Contact 2 235/40 R18 W which were fine noisewise right up to replacement through wear.
Have spoken to Continental who say that it is most likely to be due to "sawtooth" or "heel and toe" which is how the treadblocks are presented by the asymetric tread pattern.
It sounds like a wheel bearing is going but having visited the garage and confirmed there is no transmission/bearing problem. I have had the tyres balanced twice at different dealers. I have a great car which is really unpleasant to drive to the point where I'm going to junk the tyres - any suggested alternatives please? Incidentally whilst this is clearly a known phenomenon there is no suggestion of discounted replacement by Continental unless there is a clear manufacturing defect - they do not regard this problem as a defect!
Have spoken to Continental who say that it is most likely to be due to "sawtooth" or "heel and toe" which is how the treadblocks are presented by the asymetric tread pattern.
It sounds like a wheel bearing is going but having visited the garage and confirmed there is no transmission/bearing problem. I have had the tyres balanced twice at different dealers. I have a great car which is really unpleasant to drive to the point where I'm going to junk the tyres - any suggested alternatives please? Incidentally whilst this is clearly a known phenomenon there is no suggestion of discounted replacement by Continental unless there is a clear manufacturing defect - they do not regard this problem as a defect!
Can't compete with the sexy car, but can relate to the problem - I had these tyres (225 section) as OE on my old Mk V Golf GT TDi and had an identical experience. Had the dealer investigate wheel bearings, sounded just the same. Replaced with Michelin, never heard it again - I think replacement with anything other than Conti's is your only option I'm afraid. Suggest you also have wheel alignment properly checked at the same time - I believe mine was out for that first set of tyres which may have lead to a wear pattern which encouraged the annoying noise...
Had this same problem with my Passat estate. The mobile Kwik Fit guy showed me the inner edge of the tyre and by running your hand one way the tread blocks are smooth, and the other you can feel the steps. This causes the droning that sounds like a knackered wheel bearing. VW service centre asked was it an estate, and then shrugged shoulders saying "they all do that, cannot adjust camber, anything else I can help you with"! Basically you are down to replacing rears every 15K or putting up and shutting up - mines a fleet car but still a pain nonetheless.
ETA Rear tyres only so may be talking s
te 
ETA Rear tyres only so may be talking s
te Edited by Griff 500 on Monday 6th July 16:24
I've seen this on the rear tyres of the front wheel drive Audi's, (especial A4 avant, but can be any FWD model) where the rears tyres don't do any work and just get pulled along. But never need it on S4, very unusuall. Customer complaint is always, Bearing type noise, suspect wheel bearing.
Swapping front to rear halfway through there life could help postpone the problem.
Advise, Full 4 wheel geometry setup + don't use Continental or DUNLOP (even worse). Best results are Googyear Eagle F1's and Michelin Pilot Sport's.
If the car is over 5 years old, consider rear shock replacement too (axle pair, good quality dampers, Biltsien B6's for example).
Swapping front to rear halfway through there life could help postpone the problem.
Advise, Full 4 wheel geometry setup + don't use Continental or DUNLOP (even worse). Best results are Googyear Eagle F1's and Michelin Pilot Sport's.
If the car is over 5 years old, consider rear shock replacement too (axle pair, good quality dampers, Biltsien B6's for example).
In a lot of other 4wd cars its a sign of transmission "wind up" Are the tyres the same age? (check the date markers) Quick test is to see how well the cars rolls along unpowered, often if you can't push it easily on the flat there'in lies the problem.
Cnetre diffs seizing up is the usual cause if its not uneven tyre sizes
Cnetre diffs seizing up is the usual cause if its not uneven tyre sizes
Thanks for the feedback and suggestions.
The S4 is 2004, 49,000 miles and all four tyres were fitted as a set, tyre wear is even all around and I had the electronic four wheel geometry check (and adjustment) shortly before putting the new set of tyres on. I suspect from the feedback on this posting that it is a problem with the tyres and just want to check if everyone else is talking about Continental Sport Contact 3 before I pursue things with the manufacturer. As I said in my original post the previous set of Contact 2 tyres were fine right until they were down to the wear bars.
Being a sad oldie, I don't sling the car around corners and the wear on the current tyres is even front to back and over the width with no scrubbing on the inside or outside.
Toyo tyres seem to be a good option and are a fair bit cheaper than the Continentals. The Toyo Proxes T1-R looks like it is directional but not asymetric, so I may give that a go. Any feedback on those before I spend my cash?
I have a couple of other cars with asymetric tread (Soarer and Peugeot 307 SW) which have never given this problem - Bridgestone when new and Dunlop since on the Soarer (yes I've had it 14 years from new!) and Michelin then Goodyear on the 307. Continental said you could still get Contact 2 but due to the "hard luck, put up with it or change them at your own expense" approach, I won't ever be fitting Continental tyres again on to any car I have responsibility for!
The S4 is 2004, 49,000 miles and all four tyres were fitted as a set, tyre wear is even all around and I had the electronic four wheel geometry check (and adjustment) shortly before putting the new set of tyres on. I suspect from the feedback on this posting that it is a problem with the tyres and just want to check if everyone else is talking about Continental Sport Contact 3 before I pursue things with the manufacturer. As I said in my original post the previous set of Contact 2 tyres were fine right until they were down to the wear bars.
Being a sad oldie, I don't sling the car around corners and the wear on the current tyres is even front to back and over the width with no scrubbing on the inside or outside.
Toyo tyres seem to be a good option and are a fair bit cheaper than the Continentals. The Toyo Proxes T1-R looks like it is directional but not asymetric, so I may give that a go. Any feedback on those before I spend my cash?
I have a couple of other cars with asymetric tread (Soarer and Peugeot 307 SW) which have never given this problem - Bridgestone when new and Dunlop since on the Soarer (yes I've had it 14 years from new!) and Michelin then Goodyear on the 307. Continental said you could still get Contact 2 but due to the "hard luck, put up with it or change them at your own expense" approach, I won't ever be fitting Continental tyres again on to any car I have responsibility for!
Had a similar problem on the rear tyres on my Golf, Goodyear F1's made in China. searching the web suggests a problem with the tyres ( The earlier German made ones didn't do it ). Sent the tyres back to Goodyear who said no problem must be the car. So I will avoid Goodyears in the future and IMO don't buy Toyo T1-Rs as that's what I have now and they are rubbish - Quiet though
To back up TT's recommendation, the Michelins I replaced the noisy Conti's with on my Golf were Pilot Sports - if such things still exist I would recommend them - they lasted well, were fine wet or dry, and never made the dreaded rumbly noise at any stage of their lives. Not the cheapest I suspect, but good quiet tyres!
S.
S.
stobswood said:
Has anyone else had a problem with tyre noise on the Audi S4 - or any other car come to that? I am halfway through a set of Continental Sport Contact 3 235/40 R18Y - they replaced a set of Continental Sport Contact 2 235/40 R18 W which were fine noisewise right up to replacement through wear.
Have spoken to Continental who say that it is most likely to be due to "sawtooth" or "heel and toe" which is how the treadblocks are presented by the asymetric tread pattern.
It sounds like a wheel bearing is going but having visited the garage and confirmed there is no transmission/bearing problem. I have had the tyres balanced twice at different dealers. I have a great car which is really unpleasant to drive to the point where I'm going to junk the tyres - any suggested alternatives please? Incidentally whilst this is clearly a known phenomenon there is no suggestion of discounted replacement by Continental unless there is a clear manufacturing defect - they do not regard this problem as a defect!
Fistly, Yikes! the 235/40 R18W were the WRONG tyres (unless they were a M+S winter tyre), as the S4 needs Y rated tyres.Have spoken to Continental who say that it is most likely to be due to "sawtooth" or "heel and toe" which is how the treadblocks are presented by the asymetric tread pattern.
It sounds like a wheel bearing is going but having visited the garage and confirmed there is no transmission/bearing problem. I have had the tyres balanced twice at different dealers. I have a great car which is really unpleasant to drive to the point where I'm going to junk the tyres - any suggested alternatives please? Incidentally whilst this is clearly a known phenomenon there is no suggestion of discounted replacement by Continental unless there is a clear manufacturing defect - they do not regard this problem as a defect!
Secondly, and this is more important, simply because it is more likely to occur, and it regards the 'Load Index' of the tyre. When the B6 S4 was released in 2003, it intially came with 'standard' load tyres with a load index of 91 (so the sidewall marking would be "235/40 ZR18 91Y"). However, these were borderline to say the least, and would cause excess wear on the outer shoulders, and could also cause the 'sawtooth' effect on the standard ContiSportContact2s. From model year 2004, the standard fit tyres on the S4 were improved to the "eXtra Load" load index rating of 95 (full sidewall marking "235/40 ZR18 95Y XL") - and not only did this improve car stability under very hard braking and hard cornering, it also noticeably evened out the tyre wear. It was recommended that these 95 XL tyres were retro fitted to the original B6 S4s come replacement time.
If you do have the lesser 91 tyres, then you have only two options - either get the tyres replaced with 95Y XL flavour (at someone elses expense - if it was an Audi dealer or other dealer who incorrectly fitted them, then they should be liable for the costs). If that fails, then you really need to increase the tyre pressures to cope. As a general 'rule of thumb', for every one point in load index variation, you need to adjust the pressure by 1½-2psi - so in your instance, increase the pressures by 6-8psi from that on the door pillar sticker.
Finally, it is well known that the Continental SportContact tyres are generally noisier than say Michelin PS2s.
HTH
Teutonic_Tamer said:
Fistly, Yikes! the 235/40 R18W were the WRONG tyres (unless they were a M+S winter tyre), as the S4 needs Y rated tyres.
Secondly, and this is more important, simply because it is more likely to occur, and it regards the 'Load Index' of the tyre. When the B6 S4 was released in 2003, it intially came with 'standard' load tyres with a load index of 91 (so the sidewall marking would be "235/40 ZR18 91Y"). However, these were borderline to say the least, and would cause excess wear on the outer shoulders, and could also cause the 'sawtooth' effect on the standard ContiSportContact2s. From model year 2004, the standard fit tyres on the S4 were improved to the "eXtra Load" load index rating of 95 (full sidewall marking "235/40 ZR18 95Y XL") - and not only did this improve car stability under very hard braking and hard cornering, it also noticeably evened out the tyre wear. It was recommended that these 95 XL tyres were retro fitted to the original B6 S4s come replacement time.
If you do have the lesser 91 tyres, then you have only two options - either get the tyres replaced with 95Y XL flavour (at someone elses expense - if it was an Audi dealer or other dealer who incorrectly fitted them, then they should be liable for the costs). If that fails, then you really need to increase the tyre pressures to cope. As a general 'rule of thumb', for every one point in load index variation, you need to adjust the pressure by 1½-2psi - so in your instance, increase the pressures by 6-8psi from that on the door pillar sticker.
Finally, it is well known that the Continental SportContact tyres are generally noisier than say Michelin PS2s.
HTH
Interesting...I changed from those original Conti's (mainly because the tyre wear on the front shoulders was excessive) to F1 Eagles. It has resulted in better tyre life, can't say whether the cornering has improved but I have noticed how sensitive the braking/roadholding is to tyre pressure. I can tell though the steering if the front tyre pressures are just a couple of psi down and have tended to inflate to the full load pressures as a result. Never knew what that number (load index) was for so I'm going to check my current tyres tonight.Secondly, and this is more important, simply because it is more likely to occur, and it regards the 'Load Index' of the tyre. When the B6 S4 was released in 2003, it intially came with 'standard' load tyres with a load index of 91 (so the sidewall marking would be "235/40 ZR18 91Y"). However, these were borderline to say the least, and would cause excess wear on the outer shoulders, and could also cause the 'sawtooth' effect on the standard ContiSportContact2s. From model year 2004, the standard fit tyres on the S4 were improved to the "eXtra Load" load index rating of 95 (full sidewall marking "235/40 ZR18 95Y XL") - and not only did this improve car stability under very hard braking and hard cornering, it also noticeably evened out the tyre wear. It was recommended that these 95 XL tyres were retro fitted to the original B6 S4s come replacement time.
If you do have the lesser 91 tyres, then you have only two options - either get the tyres replaced with 95Y XL flavour (at someone elses expense - if it was an Audi dealer or other dealer who incorrectly fitted them, then they should be liable for the costs). If that fails, then you really need to increase the tyre pressures to cope. As a general 'rule of thumb', for every one point in load index variation, you need to adjust the pressure by 1½-2psi - so in your instance, increase the pressures by 6-8psi from that on the door pillar sticker.
Finally, it is well known that the Continental SportContact tyres are generally noisier than say Michelin PS2s.
HTH
caiss4 said:
Teutonic_Tamer said:
Fistly, Yikes! the 235/40 R18W were the WRONG tyres (unless they were a M+S winter tyre), as the S4 needs Y rated tyres.
Secondly, and this is more important, simply because it is more likely to occur, and it regards the 'Load Index' of the tyre. When the B6 S4 was released in 2003, it intially came with 'standard' load tyres with a load index of 91 (so the sidewall marking would be "235/40 ZR18 91Y"). However, these were borderline to say the least, and would cause excess wear on the outer shoulders, and could also cause the 'sawtooth' effect on the standard ContiSportContact2s. From model year 2004, the standard fit tyres on the S4 were improved to the "eXtra Load" load index rating of 95 (full sidewall marking "235/40 ZR18 95Y XL") - and not only did this improve car stability under very hard braking and hard cornering, it also noticeably evened out the tyre wear. It was recommended that these 95 XL tyres were retro fitted to the original B6 S4s come replacement time.
If you do have the lesser 91 tyres, then you have only two options - either get the tyres replaced with 95Y XL flavour (at someone elses expense - if it was an Audi dealer or other dealer who incorrectly fitted them, then they should be liable for the costs). If that fails, then you really need to increase the tyre pressures to cope. As a general 'rule of thumb', for every one point in load index variation, you need to adjust the pressure by 1½-2psi - so in your instance, increase the pressures by 6-8psi from that on the door pillar sticker.
Finally, it is well known that the Continental SportContact tyres are generally noisier than say Michelin PS2s.
HTH
Interesting...I changed from those original Conti's (mainly because the tyre wear on the front shoulders was excessive) to F1 Eagles. It has resulted in better tyre life, can't say whether the cornering has improved but I have noticed how sensitive the braking/roadholding is to tyre pressure. I can tell though the steering if the front tyre pressures are just a couple of psi down and have tended to inflate to the full load pressures as a result. Never knew what that number (load index) was for so I'm going to check my current tyres tonight.Secondly, and this is more important, simply because it is more likely to occur, and it regards the 'Load Index' of the tyre. When the B6 S4 was released in 2003, it intially came with 'standard' load tyres with a load index of 91 (so the sidewall marking would be "235/40 ZR18 91Y"). However, these were borderline to say the least, and would cause excess wear on the outer shoulders, and could also cause the 'sawtooth' effect on the standard ContiSportContact2s. From model year 2004, the standard fit tyres on the S4 were improved to the "eXtra Load" load index rating of 95 (full sidewall marking "235/40 ZR18 95Y XL") - and not only did this improve car stability under very hard braking and hard cornering, it also noticeably evened out the tyre wear. It was recommended that these 95 XL tyres were retro fitted to the original B6 S4s come replacement time.
If you do have the lesser 91 tyres, then you have only two options - either get the tyres replaced with 95Y XL flavour (at someone elses expense - if it was an Audi dealer or other dealer who incorrectly fitted them, then they should be liable for the costs). If that fails, then you really need to increase the tyre pressures to cope. As a general 'rule of thumb', for every one point in load index variation, you need to adjust the pressure by 1½-2psi - so in your instance, increase the pressures by 6-8psi from that on the door pillar sticker.
Finally, it is well known that the Continental SportContact tyres are generally noisier than say Michelin PS2s.
HTH
See this Wikipedia article for tyre load index info. And for the specific examples, a LI of 91 can cope with 615kg per tyre, whereas the eXtra Load 95 can cope with 690kg. So on the standard load tyres, the front axle (and rear, but it is the front which is of most concern, when braking heavily, resulting in weight transfer to the front axle) is rated at 1230kgs, but the eXtra Load 95s give 1380kgs - a dynamic improvement of 150kgs.
Teutonic_Tamer said:
caiss4 said:
Teutonic_Tamer said:
Fistly, Yikes! the 235/40 R18W were the WRONG tyres (unless they were a M+S winter tyre), as the S4 needs Y rated tyres.
Secondly, and this is more important, simply because it is more likely to occur, and it regards the 'Load Index' of the tyre. When the B6 S4 was released in 2003, it intially came with 'standard' load tyres with a load index of 91 (so the sidewall marking would be "235/40 ZR18 91Y"). However, these were borderline to say the least, and would cause excess wear on the outer shoulders, and could also cause the 'sawtooth' effect on the standard ContiSportContact2s. From model year 2004, the standard fit tyres on the S4 were improved to the "eXtra Load" load index rating of 95 (full sidewall marking "235/40 ZR18 95Y XL") - and not only did this improve car stability under very hard braking and hard cornering, it also noticeably evened out the tyre wear. It was recommended that these 95 XL tyres were retro fitted to the original B6 S4s come replacement time.
If you do have the lesser 91 tyres, then you have only two options - either get the tyres replaced with 95Y XL flavour (at someone elses expense - if it was an Audi dealer or other dealer who incorrectly fitted them, then they should be liable for the costs). If that fails, then you really need to increase the tyre pressures to cope. As a general 'rule of thumb', for every one point in load index variation, you need to adjust the pressure by 1½-2psi - so in your instance, increase the pressures by 6-8psi from that on the door pillar sticker.
Finally, it is well known that the Continental SportContact tyres are generally noisier than say Michelin PS2s.
HTH
Interesting...I changed from those original Conti's (mainly because the tyre wear on the front shoulders was excessive) to F1 Eagles. It has resulted in better tyre life, can't say whether the cornering has improved but I have noticed how sensitive the braking/roadholding is to tyre pressure. I can tell though the steering if the front tyre pressures are just a couple of psi down and have tended to inflate to the full load pressures as a result. Never knew what that number (load index) was for so I'm going to check my current tyres tonight.Secondly, and this is more important, simply because it is more likely to occur, and it regards the 'Load Index' of the tyre. When the B6 S4 was released in 2003, it intially came with 'standard' load tyres with a load index of 91 (so the sidewall marking would be "235/40 ZR18 91Y"). However, these were borderline to say the least, and would cause excess wear on the outer shoulders, and could also cause the 'sawtooth' effect on the standard ContiSportContact2s. From model year 2004, the standard fit tyres on the S4 were improved to the "eXtra Load" load index rating of 95 (full sidewall marking "235/40 ZR18 95Y XL") - and not only did this improve car stability under very hard braking and hard cornering, it also noticeably evened out the tyre wear. It was recommended that these 95 XL tyres were retro fitted to the original B6 S4s come replacement time.
If you do have the lesser 91 tyres, then you have only two options - either get the tyres replaced with 95Y XL flavour (at someone elses expense - if it was an Audi dealer or other dealer who incorrectly fitted them, then they should be liable for the costs). If that fails, then you really need to increase the tyre pressures to cope. As a general 'rule of thumb', for every one point in load index variation, you need to adjust the pressure by 1½-2psi - so in your instance, increase the pressures by 6-8psi from that on the door pillar sticker.
Finally, it is well known that the Continental SportContact tyres are generally noisier than say Michelin PS2s.
HTH
See this Wikipedia article for tyre load index info. And for the specific examples, a LI of 91 can cope with 615kg per tyre, whereas the eXtra Load 95 can cope with 690kg. So on the standard load tyres, the front axle (and rear, but it is the front which is of most concern, when braking heavily, resulting in weight transfer to the front axle) is rated at 1230kgs, but the eXtra Load 95s give 1380kgs - a dynamic improvement of 150kgs.
Don't panic TT! - Keyboard interface issue - finger pressed a capital W by mistake followed by the intended lower case w at the start of the word... - both the Sport Contact 2 and the current Sport Contact 3 are 235/40 ZR18 95Y XL not M+S and are the correct load rating etc. Thanks for pointing it out, looks like someone else has benefitted from your comment too.
The Sport Contact 2s were absolutely fine noise wise throughout their life. They are, I have learnt this week, still available and the advice from Continental is to stick to them if they were originally fitted rather than going to SportContact 3 which has a more blocky pattern...
The Sport Contact 2s were absolutely fine noise wise throughout their life. They are, I have learnt this week, still available and the advice from Continental is to stick to them if they were originally fitted rather than going to SportContact 3 which has a more blocky pattern...
Edited by stobswood on Saturday 11th July 12:40
Gassing Station | Audi, Seat, Skoda & VW | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff