Tame Technician can you help please?

[cindacone]

Hi TT
I am still having issue with lumpy idle in my A4 2.0 TDi 06 and hesitation between 1500 RPM and 2200RPM. I spotted that apparently there was an ECU update released by Audi to help with this by way of changing the EGR settings? I have access to a Ross Tech VCDS cable and software allowing me to read info from the ECU. Can you help me fathom out if my car has had all the relevant software updates please? If it hasn't and with it being out of warranty, where do I stand in getting the updates done?

Thanks as usual

[Dr G]

I beleive Audi customer service/a dealer can check if you've got any outstanding updates/recalls/service bulletins.

[cindacone]

many thanks Dr G

[cindacone]

turns out my a4 2.0 TDi B7 is due for a software update to the ECU - not sure what it is to resolve though - hope it makes mine tick over better. they are doing it FOC even out of warranty - is this a serious issue do you think?

[Tame Technician]

There are loads of software update and things these days, very rarely is it anything serious. Did they say which ECU it would update, its not always the engine one.

Software updates are usually free regardless of waranty/age.

They are only not free when the update is attached to a TPL (inforamtion available to technicians to help fix known faults, stored on a searchable data base) rather than an actually enharncement. Which is what yours will be having (customer service, and to a degree service advisors, cant search for TPL's only enharnements)

An enharncement basically being a recall (but we dont use the word recall without any danger or safety aspect)

The update you speek of that changed the EGR quantity is to fix rough running during warn up, from say 50 - 75 degrees of coolant temp. If the engine ECU is getting an update, the new software going in will likely include the changed EGR values, if however ifs have teh gearbox or phone or another system updates, it obviously wont.

Did you ever check the colour of the fuel??

[cindacone]

thanks TT - I will phone audi and ask if it is an engine update. I must admit, their are so many things the lumpy idle and hesitation at below 2000RPM could be caused by looking at forums etc.
I haven't personally checked the fuel colour yet - tried other day but couldn't get the tube off the pipe - felt i would damage it - being frozen on doesn't help either. Is this really common with my my engine?
The glow plug errors i am getting below I presume are not related? i have had all 4 swapped but there is a relay to check also? j179 - do you know where this is as I will swap it as part of my diagnostics.

Thanks TT

4 Faults Found:
005658 - Glowplug for Cylinder 1 (Q10): Open Circuit
P161A - 000 - -
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01110000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 139807 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 12.24 V
Bin. Bits: 11000100
Temperature: -0.9°C
Bin. Bits: 00110000

005659 - Glowplug for Cylinder 2 (Q11): Open Circuit
P161B - 000 - -
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01110000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 139807 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 12.24 V
Bin. Bits: 11000100
Temperature: -0.9°C
Bin. Bits: 00110000

005660 - Glowplug for Cylinder 3 (Q12): Open Circuit
P161C - 000 - -
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01110000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 139807 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 12.24 V
Bin. Bits: 11000100
Temperature: -0.9°C
Bin. Bits: 00110000

005661 - Glowplug for Cylinder 4 (Q13): Open Circuit
P161D - 000 - -
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01110000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 139807 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Load: 0.0 %
Voltage: 12.24 V
Bin. Bits: 11000100
Temperature: -0.9°C
Bin. Bits: 00110000

[Barkychoc]

Won't those codes have just been created when you swapped the glowplugs - each one says it has been disconnected once.

[cindacone]

i am not sure - the DTC's were reset after the installation - and I have also reset since. I believe the wiring loom under the rocker cover is prone to deterioration and may cause this error message?
Cheers

[Tame Technician]

All those faults were logged at the same time,

139807km or 86872miles, how long ago was that??

Even if the harness's can break down with age etc, thats very unlikely to be the harness that caused those codes as they all occured at the same time with the ignition switch on but the engine not running.

[cindacone]

HI TT
This done taken this week.
I also notice in this cold weather the car is really hard to start. I thought the TDI 2.0 tdi on the audi a4 B7 had a glow plug light to wait for? mine doesn't have one so never sure when to fire her up? should i have a glow plug light?

[Tame Technician]

It should have a glow plug light. Your not really expected to wait for it to go out these days, but it should at least light up and go out with the ignition on bulb test. Try ignition on wait for 5 secs, off then on wait for 5 secs, them off then on wait for 5 secs then try to start the car, if that makes it better the glow plugs are working.

Long cranking before starting can be caused by leaking injector seals on those PD engines, but if its only when cold glow plugs could be an issue. These days glow plugs are as much about reducing cold start emmisions as about starting the car. The car will start without them, but will take a bit of turning over.

Sorry I forgot to check where the relay for them is, I dont know without looking it up I'm afraid, I take it its not in the list of relays/ fuses in the handbook. Its been a bit mental at work this week,

I've got stuck in the snow twice trying to get there, bloody rear wheel drive, I love it but I hate in this week.

[cindacone]

Hi TT
New development - Audi installed a free software update to my a4 today - something to do with the EGR??

Address 01: Engine Labels: 03G-906-016-BLB.lbl
Part No SW: 03G 906 016 JD HW: 028 101 265 4
Component: R4 2,0L EDC 000SG 9643
Revision: --H02--- Serial number:
Coding: 0000072
Shop #: WSC 00613 210 91782

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0 0 1 0 0


This has stopped the pulsing / hesitation between 1500 - 2000 RPM !! bad thing - my nice remap seems to have disappeared - back to crap torque!

Also i asked them to check the glowplugs and they said they need replacing as showing as open circuit in diags.
i had all 4 replaced 2 months ago! I told him and they said must need new glowplug controller, relay and fuse :-(

I am confused - do they know what they are doing ? are we seen as blank cheque books to audi?

but... for some reason after the software update, the glow plug light now comes on and I hear a sound from a relay. the vagcom diags shows no faults :-)
I think he has fixed it inadvertantly but still want to get me back so they can swap the stuff out anyway!!

Idle still seems a little rough though...

[Tame Technician]

Oops I forgot you had a remap, Engine ECU software update will right over that as all the ECU software is cleared and rewriten.

Give the people that did it a ring and see if they can do it again for free as you only just had it done.

However, It might then overright the new EGR values and return the hesitation etc, again a call to the remap people to ask about this. If the remap peopl know what there doing they will be able to tell you if its only the boost and fuel values they change and not the EGR.

Its sounds like the remap had messed up the glow plug control to me, if the Audi dealer, only did teh update and they started working. Did you glow plug light work before you remap??

I dont think they are being funny about wanting to swap the components at all. Even though it now ok, given the evidence they have seen, 4 glow plugs open circuit custoomer has had them done already, I would have draw the same conclusion. "must be intermitant fault still advise repaire to avoid future failure."

Let me know how the cold starting is now the glow plugs lighting up.

Is the idle and hesitation fixed or just the hesitation??

TT

[cindacone]

Hi TT
The remap company will do it again for 1/2 price - as they will still have to start from scratch.
The hesitation / pulsing is gone - but the idle wobble remains
the glow plugs triggered an emission light today - so guess i spoke too early about it being fixed. It never used to trigger a light though - maybe a new feature of the software. The new ECU software must have just cleared it down temporarily. This coupled with the car not revving past 3000 rpm at standstill - I thought I had a knackered motor. It drives fine though and revs fine once moving - maybe part of the new software update to stop you revving the bxxxxcks off it whilst parked up!
I think the remappers have a top reputation so I will ask the question about the EGR. It is a much less lively car now the remap is wiped but I am glad to be bang up to date with the updates from Audi.

Cheers!

[cindacone]

edit - the glow plug light comes on fine and started up nicely this morning. still comes on after a day out shopping start - stop etc. lets see what happens in the morning after another freeze!

[RetroTed]

My 2.0 A3 tdi 2006 ticks over lumpy occasionally but pulls fine. Any thoughts

[Tame Technician]

RetroTed said:

My 2.0 A3 tdi 2006 ticks over lumpy occasionally but pulls fine. Any thoughts

2.0TDI's the PD engine. All have a rough idle to a degree, you can feel the car jolt ever so slightly as the engine misses a beat every now and then at idle. They did this from new, but some cars are much worse than others. Unless its really bad my advise is to live with it, I could give you a big list of things to try, if you really want let me know, some of which we have had great results with, but on some cars we have never been able to stop them doing that, despite numerous new commponents and hours spent emailing and talking to Audi UK and sending them data from the cars etc.

One of the things we had done to try and hide it is to raise the idle rpm, we can only change it by 80-100rpm so at 950 i reccon someone turned it up as high as they could to make the lumpy idle less noticable.

If you have a boost leak, when the car is on boost you will hear a rushing of air (not the normal turbo noise, louder) but as your not having smoke and didnt have a fales MAF fault code that is unlikely.

2.0 TDI Rough idle checks

(1) Fuel quality, take the hose off the filter have some one turn the ign off and on 2 or 3 time and chatch some fuel in a clear glass container, milk bottle/jam jar.

Look at it is it black, or at least darker than it should be.

Engine oil can get in the fuel (two failure cause this) and sticks to the side of the tank, so even when the causes have been fixed the problem can continue.

Oil in the fuel is either caused by a defective tandem pump, or leaking injector seals. You will usually know when you have either problem as there is a misfire at high rpm on full throtle. But if these fault have occured in the past and been repaired or not got to that level yet, you can still end up with oil in the tank and no high rpm misfire.

If the fuel is totally black you need to fix the cause (pump or seals) if its just a bit dark advise remove the fuel pump/sender unit and get in there and clean the inside of the tank by hand, it will be black and oily.

Diesel fuel should be a slightly yellow colour in the light. Although it can look almost blue/green in the dark (no idea why)

(2) Injector condition, we have had good results removing and ultra-sonically cleaning the PD injectors. Improves the idle roughness and gives a litle top end performance increase. To be sure if they need doing you need to road test monitoring the lambda value, lambda on full throtle at high rpm, after a good few runs to clear it out, should be less than 1.37, typically its about 1.58 ish before the clean and 1.2 ish after.

Boost leaks and MAF faults can cause funny lambda reading, typically a MAF fault would give very high lambda readings (4 or 5) at high rpm.

If the injectors are coming out, you must replace the seals as a matter of course.

(3) I know i can adjust the idle speed slighty with 5051, I asume there fore it can be done with VAGCOM. 900 is ok, but it should be 800ish. Normally turning it up make the idle better so turning it down might make it worse.

Be aware 2.0TDI's all have a slightly rough idle, you will be very lucky to get rid of it completely. But the clean injectors and a fuel tank with no oil in usually give a dramatic improvement.

[Tame Technician]

cindacone said:

edit - the glow plug light comes on fine and started up nicely this morning. still comes on after a day out shopping start - stop etc. lets see what happens in the morning after another freeze!

The 3000 revs thing is to stop the clutch + flywheel being blown up with racing starts. It may well be removed with the remap. Unless you drive it like you stole it wont make much difference, certainly nothing to worry about either way. Normally it only limits the revs when it sees the clutch pedal switch, they usually rev up ok when in neutral with no feet.

!!Make sure you Ask the remap people about weather they change EGR values and consider not having it done if they dont know or they do change them, or you may well have the hesitation again. !!

Worth asking weather they stop the glow plug light coming on too, because that sounds like software to me.

Also a good idea to check the fault memory before it goes for the remap, as the engine runs out of manufaturers specs with more boost etc, some tuning companies disable some of the OBD so it doesnt put overboosting faults in or warning lights on etc, so You want to make sure its the existing glow plug control fault and not anything eles that put the engine light on.

Dont you just love modern cars

[cindacone]

Thanks for the advice - I will take it all on board!
You mention ultrasonic injector cleaning - is this through Audi or a specialist? i am in manchester..

[Tame Technician]

The ultra sonic injector clearner is an Audi tool, so the best place to have it done is your local Audi centre. But its quite new, we got ours early last year, and its not on the compulsary tool list so not every dealer has to have one.

Diesel fuel specialist have been cleaning injectors for years, so I pressume they can do PD ones, but I could be wrong as the injecors fitted to most vans, lorries and other cars are quite different, only really VAG and some 1990's cummins engines use PD injectors. A yellow pages and a few phone calls should get you the ansers.

We charge about 2.5 hours labour + the cost of the cleaning solution and a set of injector seals.
Makes it a £300+ job sadly. But if you really cant put up with the rough idle, well worth a try.

I'd say it fixed 70%-80% of 140bhp with rough idle. And 95-100% of the 170bhp ones.