The Original Quattro

[brenflys777]

I am considering buying an original Quattro ( '83 - '91 ish ). Can anyone who is familiar with them point me in the right direction to get more information etc before I start to look at cars.

I've got a '70 MG Midget and I'm not using it enough to keep it in good form. I've had an offer on the car without even advertising it and I'm considering selling so that I can buy something that I can use more often. I've got four children and the Midget isn't being used enough because I've often got at least two of the kids with me. A four seater might allow me to enjoy a classic more. I've looked at the Triumph Stag, a Jaguar XK / XKR or the Audi Quattro.

My father had a string of Audi / VW's in the '80s - '90s and I have fond memories of Quattro's in the showroom and on TV rallying, but is the car a realistic and affordable second car ? The Midget is incredibly cheap to maintain but used little. With a budget of £8-10k is the Quattro a realistic option to buy a really good example. Also how much would the car need in terms of servicing / repairs ?

[Tame Technician]

I dont know very much about them, but I do know you want the later 20v engine, rather than the 10v one.

[marcusRR]

If you want to own a quattro you really need to do some proper research. Have a look and ask some questions on www.quattroforum.com lots of experienced owners on there.
The cars are great but can be very expensive to run and fix and total money pit if you get wrong un. This isnt helped by the shabby way Audi treat parts supply for the car,they spend massive amounts of money trying to link the current range to the ur quattro and talking about their "heritage" but at the same time are discontinuing crucial parts lines for the car for example you cannot get front suspension ball joints for the 20v. This leads to parts being expensive if still available, I believe new front wings were approx £900 each last time Audi had some.

I would think your budget is more in the 10v rather than 20v ball park.

Edited by marcusRR on Sunday 9th May 02:58

[brenflys777]

MarcusRR, thanks for the reply. I've registered with the www.quattroforum.com and I'll try and get some more information from the resident experts !

You've mentioned a couple of issues that concern me - running costs and parts availability.. It would be a car I'd be buying with the heart, so before I look at any I'd better make sure my head could afford it. If £8-10k won't get me a car thats sound and unlikely to become a money pit, I'll hang on until my lottery win appears. Cheers Bren

[agent006]

Buying a crap one isn't linked in any way to the amount of money you spend.

If you do end up looking seriously at any, get Phil Payne over to do an inspection of it. Will cost a couple of hundred quid but could save you thousands.

http://www.isham-research.co.uk/quattro/caveat.htm...

[missing the VR6]

How about a Corrado as a more affordable alternative. For your budget you'd get an amazing colletors condition one or for less a very tidy one with money left for maintenance.

[ian2144]

Have a word with Roger Galvin at The quattro workshop 01455 208037

Roger is a mine of info regarding the ur quattro and on the odd occasion has one or two cars for sale. He is also the Techy guru for the www.quattroownersclub.com

[istoo]

if you havent gathered already there are three variants to the ur quattro. For a start ur, is a prefix for the german for original, thus ur Quattro. There were three different engines in historical order the WR, original 10v turbo, the MB water cooled 10v turbo in the late 80's then lastly the RR, the 20v turbo. They drive very different the 10v's are old school turbo and have little power until the turbo comes on song and whallop away you go. The 20v has a slug of torque from 2000rpm and rises is power right to the redline. Generally the more sought after. RR's in good condition tend to fetch £15k of there abouts with the MB/WRs fetching much less, but that doesnt make them the poor relation imho. However i have seen some good exmaples of RR's fetch 4 figures lately. I have never owned one but been in all three variants and they are very different, my current daily is powered by a 5cylinder turbo near identical to the RR, it is a peach of an engine.

Bits is a huge issue as pointed out, and if you dont get a clean one then

Marcus (name suggests he has an RR), and Ian 2144 is an ex RR owner, they are right these do need a keen eye as you can spend an utter fortune keeping it well as the No Longer Available parts issue Audi have is sadly going to see a lot of these cars no longer exist.

This all said and done, I was never into Rallying in my youth but there is no denying it they all have exception road presence, full of character and engaging to drive. And the engine note, well its just devine, biased i know! An epitomy of an era of motoring, i love them for what they are and are worryingly growing on me.

Many of the Audi nuts frequent quattroownersclub is one venue for knowledge, also a lot owners on classic-audi.co.uk, audifans.net & S2-forum is specifically a model forum but a few RR guys there also, and excpetion engine knowledge. I havent seen a good solid buyers guide for these yet unless anyone lese knows of one?

Edited by istoo on Monday 10th May 09:40

[brenflys777]

Thanks for all the info. I'm not in a rush and still feel a little hesitant about selling my Midget, but the Quattro has always been one of the cars I always wanted to own, so I'll plug away at some research and see if I can find something I could keep for a long time to come. The Midget is great and the kids would be sad to see it go, but I think if the itch to change arrives you can't fight it too long! Cheers Bren

[istoo]

have you been in or driven one? I think that will certainly influence your descision.
Although parting with a car you dont want too, i utterly understand that quandry!

[marcusRR]

istoo said:

Marcus (name suggests he has an RR)

Edited by marcusRR on Monday 10th May 17:50

[brenflys777]

Hi, yes I've driven one - but not for about 10 years. I drove an MB model I was hoping to buy, but it had too many issues and my budget was too small ( At the time I was 25 and the insurance alone was eye watering ) It was however a lovely drive !

I'd driven an S2 estate for a few days and the engine in that was lovely, so the RR would seem the most attractive, but I'm quite happy going for any of the Quattro's post digi-dash and I think the budget is probably going to take it out of consideration.

The Midget on the other hand is a hopeless drive - but very endearing ! Its also averaged me about £350 a year running costs over the last 7 years ( including insurance... ). With a complex car like the Quattro it could be horrifically expensive to buy a bad one so all the help in finding sources of info is much appreciated... posting pictures of cars that look that nice is not playing fair ! ( MarcusRR ! )

[andy97]

Tame Technician said:

I dont know very much about them, but I do know you want the later 20v engine, rather than the 10v one.

I'm not sure why you would say that really. The 20V RR has more torque & is slightly more driveable but is rarer and parts can a little difficult to find as there were less of them built originally. The early 10V WR has early turbo technology (& lag) & is a little less powerful but I think a lot of people rate the 10V MB engine as a good compromise because it has the oil cooled turbo (with cooling for 10 mins after switch off) & parts are a little easier to find than for the WR or RR.

The MB engined models also have the Torsen diff, same as the RR.

[phumy]

andy97 said:

Tame Technician said:

I dont know very much about them, but I do know you want the later 20v engine, rather than the 10v one.

I'm not sure why you would say that really. The 20V RR has more torque & is slightly more driveable but is rarer and parts can a little difficult to find as there were less of them built originally. The early 10V WR has early turbo technology (& lag) & is a little less powerful but I think a lot of people rate the 10V MB engine as a good compromise because it has the oil cooled turbo (with cooling for 10 mins after switch off) & parts are a little easier to find than for the WR or RR.

The MB engined models also have the Torsen diff, same as the RR.

I think you mean it has a water cooled turbo, as all turbos have an oil feed but not all turbo's have water cooling. I dont know where you get the idea or notion that a quattro has 10 minutes of cooling after switch off either, as it does not.

[Yertis]

phumy said:

andy97 said:

Tame Technician said:

I dont know very much about them, but I do know you want the later 20v engine, rather than the 10v one.

I'm not sure why you would say that really. The 20V RR has more torque & is slightly more driveable but is rarer and parts can a little difficult to find as there were less of them built originally. The early 10V WR has early turbo technology (& lag) & is a little less powerful but I think a lot of people rate the 10V MB engine as a good compromise because it has the oil cooled turbo (with cooling for 10 mins after switch off) & parts are a little easier to find than for the WR or RR.

The MB engined models also have the Torsen diff, same as the RR.

I think you mean it has a water cooled turbo, as all turbos have an oil feed but not all turbo's have water cooling. I dont know where you get the idea or notion that a quattro has 10 minutes of cooling after switch off either, as it does not.

The RR is just an MB with a 20V engine and some posher interior trim, in all other major respects they are the same car.

RR is definitely the easiest to drive, and most mechanically durable.

I'm recommissioning a WR, and have my eye on an MB owned by a neighbour (TR6 will have to go). I think you're only a real fan if you have a WR, MB, and RR. And a left hooker.

Parts are the issue, bad situation getting worse despite what Audi seem to be saying. Also rust, but as a Midget owner you'll be familiar with that.

BTW just re-reading your original post, I have a TR6 but should have had a Stag, would have made much more sense and matrimonial harmony. Based on my own Quattro/Triumph experience, I strongly recommend a Stag.

Edited by Yertis on Friday 14th May 12:50

[andy97]

phumy said:

andy97 said:

Tame Technician said:

I dont know very much about them, but I do know you want the later 20v engine, rather than the 10v one.

I'm not sure why you would say that really. The 20V RR has more torque & is slightly more driveable but is rarer and parts can a little difficult to find as there were less of them built originally. The early 10V WR has early turbo technology (& lag) & is a little less powerful but I think a lot of people rate the 10V MB engine as a good compromise because it has the oil cooled turbo (with cooling for 10 mins after switch off) & parts are a little easier to find than for the WR or RR.

The MB engined models also have the Torsen diff, same as the RR.

I think you mean it has a water cooled turbo, as all turbos have an oil feed but not all turbo's have water cooling. I dont know where you get the idea or notion that a quattro has 10 minutes of cooling after switch off either, as it does not.

I made a mistake on the Oil vs water cooling for the turbo - slip of the finger/ brain interface! - but I am convinced that the water continues to circulate after switching off in an MB.

[Yertis]

andy97 said:

phumy said:

andy97 said:

Tame Technician said:

I dont know very much about them, but I do know you want the later 20v engine, rather than the 10v one.

I'm not sure why you would say that really. The 20V RR has more torque & is slightly more driveable but is rarer and parts can a little difficult to find as there were less of them built originally. The early 10V WR has early turbo technology (& lag) & is a little less powerful but I think a lot of people rate the 10V MB engine as a good compromise because it has the oil cooled turbo (with cooling for 10 mins after switch off) & parts are a little easier to find than for the WR or RR.

The MB engined models also have the Torsen diff, same as the RR.

I think you mean it has a water cooled turbo, as all turbos have an oil feed but not all turbo's have water cooling. I dont know where you get the idea or notion that a quattro has 10 minutes of cooling after switch off either, as it does not.

I made a mistake on the Oil vs water cooling for the turbo - slip of the finger/ brain interface! - but I am convinced that the water continues to circulate after switching off in an MB.

It certainly has an after run circulation in the AAN engines (which I appreciate are another thing again), although I only had mine come on about twice in nine years of ownership.

[phumy]

It does actually have a secondary electrical powered water pump, however it is controlled by a temperature sensor and not on a timer, so it will only run after a very spirited fast run and not every time you stop the engine, it will shutdown/stop when the temperature is below the sensed temperature. I had an MB quattro for 10 years and loved every minute, they can and do take a lot of looking after, they are heavy on suspension maintenance and taking care of electrics and sensors. The engine and gearbox are fairly bullet proof, so if you take care of those then you shouldn't be having too many problems. Look after the suspension, keep it shod in decent tyres and get the geometry set correctly and you will have a lovely drivers car.

[brenflys777]

Yertis, many thanks for the advice. I'm still looking at the Stag, I've not driven one yet though, but it seems to hold many of the advantages of my Midget but with more seats and better performance.. at the cost of, well cost ! The Jaguar XK/XKR also has an appeal at their current prices but requires considerable care in purchase to.

The Quattro has the advantage of being a car I've wanted since I was very young and if I can get a good one I'd be able to use it more often than my Midget. Just the noise of the engine brings back happy memories of my dads five cylinder Audis in the 80's and that attraction might help offset the higher costs.

[Dr_Rick]

I know its not strictly correct (in many senses of the term), but I like this one.

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1704585.htm

I'd get it painted a nicer colour though, that gold is nasty.

Dr Rick