R8 third gear hesitation - anyone else experience this?
Discussion
I've had my R8 for about a month now. A week after getting it I noticed that in 3rd gear from around 32-33 mph if you floor it (100% throttle) the car hangs back for a few seconds before getting going, it almost feels like the power's being cut by a traction/stability program. It's only in 3rd gear and only from 32-34 mph (yes that specific!).
It's been back to Audi and they've told me that they tested a few others and that it's a characterisic of the car. I don't buy that as it's pretty poor and not exactly an unlikely situation given that it's happened quite a few times in a everyday driving.
Anyone else experienced this?
It's been back to Audi and they've told me that they tested a few others and that it's a characterisic of the car. I don't buy that as it's pretty poor and not exactly an unlikely situation given that it's happened quite a few times in a everyday driving.
Anyone else experienced this?
Edited by 996GT2 on Thursday 18th November 18:15
Having never floored an R8 in 3rd at 33mph (or not knowingly) I can't say I've experienced it first hand.
The RS4 has a system where on a hurried change where the throttle is floored straight away the ECU does restrict throttle opening momentarily to save the clutch. Perhaps it is somehow related to this?
The RS4 has a system where on a hurried change where the throttle is floored straight away the ECU does restrict throttle opening momentarily to save the clutch. Perhaps it is somehow related to this?
Dr G said:
Having never floored an R8 in 3rd at 33mph (or not knowingly) I can't say I've experienced it first hand.
The RS4 has a system where on a hurried change where the throttle is floored straight away the ECU does restrict throttle opening momentarily to save the clutch. Perhaps it is somehow related to this?
Cheers. It does sound a bit of a strange (and specific) problem and Audi clearly thought I was imagining it until the tech experienced it several times on a test drive. It feels like it's the ECU cutting the power for some reason, although in 3rd gear at this speed I wouldn't have thought it would put that much stress on anything. From 30mph and 35mph it doesn't do it, and it doesn't do it in any other gear from this speed.The RS4 has a system where on a hurried change where the throttle is floored straight away the ECU does restrict throttle opening momentarily to save the clutch. Perhaps it is somehow related to this?
My guess is it's some glitch in the engine map that could well be on every other car, just would be nice if someone else on here confirmed it, rather than just taking Audi's word for it.
I quite liked their answer to it "you should try to be in 2nd if you're flooring it at that speed"
Mine hesitates in 2nd sometimes. It feels mechanical, it might be my rubbish driving. Although in my defense, if you look at R8talk the 2nd gear issue is quite common - not heard of it in 3rd though. Re-map seems to be the favoured proposed solution - though i have not done anything with mine. Im on 19k miles and have to say i havent noticed it over the last 2k or so... Maybe i just got used to it, but it wasn't all the time.
Edited by Gusto on Friday 19th November 10:25
996GT2 said:
Dr G said:
Having never floored an R8 in 3rd at 33mph (or not knowingly) I can't say I've experienced it first hand.
The RS4 has a system where on a hurried change where the throttle is floored straight away the ECU does restrict throttle opening momentarily to save the clutch. Perhaps it is somehow related to this?
Cheers. It does sound a bit of a strange (and specific) problem and Audi clearly thought I was imagining it until the tech experienced it several times on a test drive. It feels like it's the ECU cutting the power for some reason, although in 3rd gear at this speed I wouldn't have thought it would put that much stress on anything. From 30mph and 35mph it doesn't do it, and it doesn't do it in any other gear from this speed.The RS4 has a system where on a hurried change where the throttle is floored straight away the ECU does restrict throttle opening momentarily to save the clutch. Perhaps it is somehow related to this?
My guess is it's some glitch in the engine map that could well be on every other car, just would be nice if someone else on here confirmed it, rather than just taking Audi's word for it.
I quite liked their answer to it "you should try to be in 2nd if you're flooring it at that speed"
Get a free trial remap if it bugs you and see if that cures it?
I notice that on the first V8 demo we had, its almost certainly a mapping thing. Not a commonly used load/speed area so few people noticed. Havnt driven many so dont know if they all do it. Havent driven a V10 in an area where flooring it was even posible.
Interestingly RS4 (basically the same engine) as an air flap in the air box that opens in third gear and higher, that definatly can cause a surge in power, unsure if R8 has this.
Have you tried the same revs (what ever it is in 3rd at 32-42) in 4th gear and second gear to see if its the same, but regardless is bound to be a mapping thing.
If the dealer really have (and they do tend to, i do this alot) tried another car and its the same, I'm afraid that is a characteristic and not a warrantyable fault.
Interestingly RS4 (basically the same engine) as an air flap in the air box that opens in third gear and higher, that definatly can cause a surge in power, unsure if R8 has this.
Have you tried the same revs (what ever it is in 3rd at 32-42) in 4th gear and second gear to see if its the same, but regardless is bound to be a mapping thing.
If the dealer really have (and they do tend to, i do this alot) tried another car and its the same, I'm afraid that is a characteristic and not a warrantyable fault.
Tame Technician said:
I notice that on the first V8 demo we had, its almost certainly a mapping thing. Not a commonly used load/speed area so few people noticed. Havnt driven many so dont know if they all do it. Havent driven a V10 in an area where flooring it was even posible.
Interestingly RS4 (basically the same engine) as an air flap in the air box that opens in third gear and higher, that definatly can cause a surge in power, unsure if R8 has this.
Have you tried the same revs (what ever it is in 3rd at 32-42) in 4th gear and second gear to see if its the same, but regardless is bound to be a mapping thing.
If the dealer really have (and they do tend to, i do this alot) tried another car and its the same, I'm afraid that is a characteristic and not a warrantyable fault.
Cheers, good to know that someone else has experienced it. It doesn't do it in any other gear. I've pretty much already gotten used to it and haven't experienced it since as I'm compensating for it now.Interestingly RS4 (basically the same engine) as an air flap in the air box that opens in third gear and higher, that definatly can cause a surge in power, unsure if R8 has this.
Have you tried the same revs (what ever it is in 3rd at 32-42) in 4th gear and second gear to see if its the same, but regardless is bound to be a mapping thing.
If the dealer really have (and they do tend to, i do this alot) tried another car and its the same, I'm afraid that is a characteristic and not a warrantyable fault.
Also, another 'characteristic' I noticed whilst making progress along a twisty road at night is that if you hold the window washer on for 3 seconds it switches the headlamp wash on, which helpfully switches off the lights for 2 seconds as it washes them! 
note to self: don't hold the window washer on for more than 3 seconds when it's dark!
note to self: don't hold the window washer on for more than 3 seconds when it's dark!
mine a Nov 2007 did this and a gearbox malfunction then occurred. The cause has been identified as a fault with the ecu unit on the gearbox part costs £3,000 and labour £1600.
Audi would not consider a goodwill payment (3 weeks outside warranty) as the only service was done when I bought it from A main Bentley dealer. No services required since. bought with 5000 miles in March 2010 now done 16,000
I am relying on a extended warranty purchased with the car from MBG warranties ..I am not that hopeful I think they will argue it's a manufacturing fault and pass it back to Audi. however I am braced for this nonsense and if this rears it head it will be a straight forward claim under the sale of goods act and I suspect that will bring reason to the table.
Whilst not wishing to go too off topic a warranty does not displace the protection of the sale of Goods Act and making a claim in the county court using the procedure of the small claims is something no reasonably intelligent member on this forum should be scared of. remember that both parties bear their own costs so if you lose the downside is limited.
Audi would not consider a goodwill payment (3 weeks outside warranty) as the only service was done when I bought it from A main Bentley dealer. No services required since. bought with 5000 miles in March 2010 now done 16,000
I am relying on a extended warranty purchased with the car from MBG warranties ..I am not that hopeful I think they will argue it's a manufacturing fault and pass it back to Audi. however I am braced for this nonsense and if this rears it head it will be a straight forward claim under the sale of goods act and I suspect that will bring reason to the table.
Whilst not wishing to go too off topic a warranty does not displace the protection of the sale of Goods Act and making a claim in the county court using the procedure of the small claims is something no reasonably intelligent member on this forum should be scared of. remember that both parties bear their own costs so if you lose the downside is limited.
Is that an R-Tronic? Mine's a manual so I'm guessing that your gearbox failure isn't connected to this problem?
My car is fully maintained in the Audi network, still has 10 months warranty and there's a note on the service system saying that they've checked the fault, said it's ok and released the car back to me so I'd guess any warranty related claims would be black and white in this case.
My car is fully maintained in the Audi network, still has 10 months warranty and there's a note on the service system saying that they've checked the fault, said it's ok and released the car back to me so I'd guess any warranty related claims would be black and white in this case.
Its almost certainly added by Audi to deliberately ignore throttle inputs and restrict throttle opening at 50 km/h to "pass" EU vehicle noise regs. Doesn't affect US cars. Not the first diagnosis typically offered by the manufacturers to drivers with a bona fide complaint. Very naughty in my opinion.
Surprisingly, I've done this 32-34mph, floor it in 3rd quite a lot... Usually just past the "thank you for driving carefully through the village" sign... and no, I've not encountered the problem. It's not exactly frisky in 3rd, but no hesitation. I recommend 2nd 
I had this sort of thing in my B7 RS4 a lot and it drove me nuts until I changed my driving style.
I had this sort of thing in my B7 RS4 a lot and it drove me nuts until I changed my driving style.
[quote=996GT2]I've had my R8 for about a month now. A week after getting it I noticed that in 3rd gear from around 32-33 mph if you floor it (100% throttle) the car hangs back for a few seconds before getting going, it almost feels like the power's being cut by a traction/stability program. It's only in 3rd gear and only from 32-34 mph (yes that specific!).
It's been back to Audi and they've told me that they tested a few others and that it's a characterisic of the car. I don't buy that as it's pretty poor and not exactly an unlikely situation given that it's happened quite a few times in a everyday driving.
Anyone else experienced this?
I have the exact issue you've described but as you have done I now compensate for it without thinking, the R8s due a service in March so will certainly be telling them about it but a remap is tempting!
It's been back to Audi and they've told me that they tested a few others and that it's a characterisic of the car. I don't buy that as it's pretty poor and not exactly an unlikely situation given that it's happened quite a few times in a everyday driving.
Anyone else experienced this?
I have the exact issue you've described but as you have done I now compensate for it without thinking, the R8s due a service in March so will certainly be telling them about it but a remap is tempting!
I have been in ongoing discussions with AUDI since I discovered my "2second" flat spot in my brand new R8 V8 Manual car last year; apparently AUDI say it is a "Characteristic" of the car. I will be posting a diagnostic video soon showing the issue.
This issue is not related to USA cars as the US did not sign up to this UN Noise legislation, most other countries in the world did.
In summary (image below): all manual cars have to drive up to a line at a steady 50kp/h (31mp/h) in 3rd gear (if the car has more than 4 gears), "the throttle shall then be fully-opened" over the 20 metre test grid with noise levels measured at the 10m half way point. Audi have devised a Throttle limiter that ignores the input from the pedal until outside the test zone, and then accelerates, in order to "pass" the test. Effectively moving the noise 20m up the road and outside the test zone. Clever stuff provided you are not overtaking a lorry or coach!!!
My Accelerator Pedal and the engine Throttle valve operate in unison generally until we get to the area of 50KPH (31mp/h) and place the car under "Full Throttle", at this point the Pedal depression from the driver seems to be ignored by the ECU so the Throttle valve is no longer in unison and fully open, in fact it reduces to approx. 15% open. Hence the "2 second" engine hesitation. This is due to Noise legislation from the UN and EU to make cars quieter...... Most Supercars have a silencer to ensure the car passes the Noise legislation, but AUDI choose to fit a Deliberate Throttle disconnection between the accelerator pedal and the Engine throttle butterfly valve in order to "pass" the fully-open throttle test. This test is designed to measure the maximun noise a car can make in the most normal urban enviroment (50kp/h).
As i say, Clever stuff provided you are not overtaking a lorry or coach and want to "pass" the UN/EU noise test and move the noise 20m further up the road (effectively not reducing the noise at all, as requested by the UN/EU legislation)!! I can think of better words than "pass".... Why didn't AUDI fit the correct Silencer system like other high performance car companies....
Please see link below to see the EU noise test requirements:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...70L0157:EN:...
I.4 page 2 and 3 are the most relevant parts.
I asked AUDI could they confirm my Engine Throttle Valve should be closing in this 50KPH "Fully-Open Throttle" situation and if Audi's interpretation of EU Noise legislation (70/157/EEC) is that only the Pedal needs to be fully depressed ("fully-open"), as I personally thought you could open a valve and not an accelerator pedal.
Audi's response is this:
Having spoken to Audi Technical, regarding the Engine Throttle Valve, they have advised that terms like “wide open throttle“ are terms that historically stem from some time ago when vehicles were equipped with carburettors and nowadays just means the accelerator pressed to its maximum position (all the way down).
AUDI chose not to answer if my engine throttle valve should be almost closed (my cars “2 second” hesitation) whilst I requested my car to accelerate by depressing fully "all the way down" my accelerator pedal.
For everyone's info including AUDI, the link below states the evaluation/monitoring period under Directive 70/157/EEC (noise emmisions tests) started on 6 July 2008 and expired on 6 July 2010, when the legislation was implimented..... Otherwise known in AUDI terms as "some time ago"!!!
http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/secto...e/index_en....
I am not impressed that AUDI chose to cut corners/costs with thier flagship car which costs in excess of £100,000 instead of fit an appropriate silencer system like other competitors do.
This issue is not related to USA cars as the US did not sign up to this UN Noise legislation, most other countries in the world did.
In summary (image below): all manual cars have to drive up to a line at a steady 50kp/h (31mp/h) in 3rd gear (if the car has more than 4 gears), "the throttle shall then be fully-opened" over the 20 metre test grid with noise levels measured at the 10m half way point. Audi have devised a Throttle limiter that ignores the input from the pedal until outside the test zone, and then accelerates, in order to "pass" the test. Effectively moving the noise 20m up the road and outside the test zone. Clever stuff provided you are not overtaking a lorry or coach!!!
My Accelerator Pedal and the engine Throttle valve operate in unison generally until we get to the area of 50KPH (31mp/h) and place the car under "Full Throttle", at this point the Pedal depression from the driver seems to be ignored by the ECU so the Throttle valve is no longer in unison and fully open, in fact it reduces to approx. 15% open. Hence the "2 second" engine hesitation. This is due to Noise legislation from the UN and EU to make cars quieter...... Most Supercars have a silencer to ensure the car passes the Noise legislation, but AUDI choose to fit a Deliberate Throttle disconnection between the accelerator pedal and the Engine throttle butterfly valve in order to "pass" the fully-open throttle test. This test is designed to measure the maximun noise a car can make in the most normal urban enviroment (50kp/h).
As i say, Clever stuff provided you are not overtaking a lorry or coach and want to "pass" the UN/EU noise test and move the noise 20m further up the road (effectively not reducing the noise at all, as requested by the UN/EU legislation)!! I can think of better words than "pass".... Why didn't AUDI fit the correct Silencer system like other high performance car companies....
Please see link below to see the EU noise test requirements:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...70L0157:EN:...
I.4 page 2 and 3 are the most relevant parts.
I asked AUDI could they confirm my Engine Throttle Valve should be closing in this 50KPH "Fully-Open Throttle" situation and if Audi's interpretation of EU Noise legislation (70/157/EEC) is that only the Pedal needs to be fully depressed ("fully-open"), as I personally thought you could open a valve and not an accelerator pedal.
Audi's response is this:
Having spoken to Audi Technical, regarding the Engine Throttle Valve, they have advised that terms like “wide open throttle“ are terms that historically stem from some time ago when vehicles were equipped with carburettors and nowadays just means the accelerator pressed to its maximum position (all the way down).
AUDI chose not to answer if my engine throttle valve should be almost closed (my cars “2 second” hesitation) whilst I requested my car to accelerate by depressing fully "all the way down" my accelerator pedal.
For everyone's info including AUDI, the link below states the evaluation/monitoring period under Directive 70/157/EEC (noise emmisions tests) started on 6 July 2008 and expired on 6 July 2010, when the legislation was implimented..... Otherwise known in AUDI terms as "some time ago"!!!
http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/secto...e/index_en....
I am not impressed that AUDI chose to cut corners/costs with thier flagship car which costs in excess of £100,000 instead of fit an appropriate silencer system like other competitors do.
Edited by Gjjames on Tuesday 2nd April 16:53
Edited by Gjjames on Tuesday 2nd April 17:30
Edited by Gjjames on Tuesday 2nd April 17:35
Edited by Gjjames on Tuesday 2nd April 17:36
Edited by Gjjames on Thursday 4th April 15:52
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