OEM Bilstein suspension vs aftermarket
Discussion
Has anyone fitted a new set of Bilsteins to their Griff instead of opting for an aftermarket setup?
The reason that I ask is that I very much like the original setup in that it is comfortable for normal road driving. The only thing that lets it down is when pushing on it does not feel particularly planted and tends to squirm under acceleration. I think this may to be expected seeing at they are 12 years old now.
I know the standard answer here is Nitrons but I am not convinced that I would not be changing the settings all time trying to achieve a good comprise between comfort and handling. I am quite attracted to the idea of fitting a set of new Bilsteins with the original spring rates. Fit and forget - no adjustment.
The reason that I ask is that I very much like the original setup in that it is comfortable for normal road driving. The only thing that lets it down is when pushing on it does not feel particularly planted and tends to squirm under acceleration. I think this may to be expected seeing at they are 12 years old now.
I know the standard answer here is Nitrons but I am not convinced that I would not be changing the settings all time trying to achieve a good comprise between comfort and handling. I am quite attracted to the idea of fitting a set of new Bilsteins with the original spring rates. Fit and forget - no adjustment.
I know you have Toyo's 
... Well.. as I said in my post.. the Billies where good on mine with the old tyres.. just having fitted Toyos... it's unstable at speed still (both hands on the wheel at 80 plus) and goes from one wheel at the rear to the other on acceleration.. very strang feeling... but I know it didn't happen till the Toyos went on the back!! 
... Well.. as I said in my post.. the Billies where good on mine with the old tyres.. just having fitted Toyos... it's unstable at speed still (both hands on the wheel at 80 plus) and goes from one wheel at the rear to the other on acceleration.. very strang feeling... but I know it didn't happen till the Toyos went on the back!! TVR Beaver said:
I know you have Toyo's ... Well.. as I said in my post.. the Billies where good on mine with the old tyres.. just having fitted Toyos... it's unstable at speed still (both hands on the wheel at 80 plus) and goes from one wheel at the rear to the other on acceleration.. very strang feeling... but I know it didn't happen till the Toyos went on the back!!
Oh yes I remember the thread now! ... Well.. as I said in my post.. the Billies where good on mine with the old tyres.. just having fitted Toyos... it's unstable at speed still (both hands on the wheel at 80 plus) and goes from one wheel at the rear to the other on acceleration.. very strang feeling... but I know it didn't happen till the Toyos went on the back!! 
Mine really didn't feel good with Toyos on the rear the Bridgestone SO1s on the front, it was much better once I fitted matching Toyos on the front. Because my SO1s were knackered when I bought the car I never had a understanding of how the car felt on the original spec tyres. It is very interesting what you are saying about the original tyres though, perhaps the issues I am having with mine are linked to the tyres and not the suspension setup.Quinny said:
I did twice
My first Griff 400 came with knackard Konis.... I threw them in the bin and forked out for a brand new set of the then 500 spec Billys.....
And last year, I fitted a set of SE Billsteins, to the 500 that Mark now owns....
What was your opinion of the 500 spec Bilsteins then Quinny and why did you not opt for after-market? twiceMy first Griff 400 came with knackard Konis.... I threw them in the bin and forked out for a brand new set of the then 500 spec Billys.....
And last year, I fitted a set of SE Billsteins, to the 500 that Mark now owns....
Englishman said:
Funnily enough I'm pondering exactly the same question as the originals are still working ok but have become annoying noisey. One dealer recommends Nitron Reds, another says stay original.
What are you thoughts about this so far?7 TVR said:
Am running Toyo 888 and gaz shocks, i get no squirm and instability just instant squat and thrust especially on track once they are warmed up, insane levels of grip for a road tyre!! Hence sticking with them on the re-builb just opting for the new Gaz mono and widder tyres!
That setup does sound pretty awesome but I am looking for primarily a road setup. What is yours like on the UK's knackered roads?I know you said that you don't want Nitrons, but I think you should seriously consider them. I had mine put on and set up by TVR Power, and it was pretty well spot on out of the box. I had a chat to the Geo guy (Wayne) and explained how I drive and what I want the car to do, and he made it do just that. Since then I've never needed to change the settings - only stiffen them up a tad for track days and then back them off again afterwards. The bump handling and ride is miles better than standard though - no crashing, and much more effective damping all around. This give the car a real quality feel to it. Well worth it I'd say.
In all honesty - for a road car, where adjustabiity after initial set up is of secondary importance at best, personally I'd either get the current spec Bilsteins (along with going back to Bilstein for OE starting with the Tuscan 2, the settings for the replacement dampersfor the older models were revised, too; although for some reason they are not featured on Powers website anymore 
) or look at the Nitron level as a minimum for an upgrade.
As mentioned by 450Nick, top spec dampers will give a huge gain in overall composure, which transforms the whole driving experience on every trip. For starters, you'd be surprised about the reduction in rattles & squeeks.
) or look at the Nitron level as a minimum for an upgrade. As mentioned by 450Nick, top spec dampers will give a huge gain in overall composure, which transforms the whole driving experience on every trip. For starters, you'd be surprised about the reduction in rattles & squeeks.
Edited by 900T-R on Friday 27th May 10:05
MPoxon said:
TVR Beaver said:
I know you have Toyo's ... Well.. as I said in my post.. the Billies where good on mine with the old tyres.. just having fitted Toyos... it's unstable at speed still (both hands on the wheel at 80 plus) and goes from one wheel at the rear to the other on acceleration.. very strang feeling... but I know it didn't happen till the Toyos went on the back!!
Oh yes I remember the thread now! ... Well.. as I said in my post.. the Billies where good on mine with the old tyres.. just having fitted Toyos... it's unstable at speed still (both hands on the wheel at 80 plus) and goes from one wheel at the rear to the other on acceleration.. very strang feeling... but I know it didn't happen till the Toyos went on the back!! Mine really didn't feel good with Toyos on the rear the Bridgestone SO1s on the front, it was much better once I fitted matching Toyos on the front. Because my SO1s were knackered when I bought the car I never had a understanding of how the car felt on the original spec tyres. It is very interesting what you are saying about the original tyres though, perhaps the issues I am having with mine are linked to the tyres and not the suspension setup. [quote].
Can you borrow some rears for an hour with 'other' tyres?.. Take it for a spin and see what you think??... How many miles / heat cycley have your Toyo's been thro... or are they still newish?
450Nick said:
I know you said that you don't want Nitrons, but I think you should seriously consider them. I had mine put on and set up by TVR Power, and it was pretty well spot on out of the box. I had a chat to the Geo guy (Wayne) and explained how I drive and what I want the car to do, and he made it do just that. Since then I've never needed to change the settings - only stiffen them up a tad for track days and then back them off again afterwards. The bump handling and ride is miles better than standard though - no crashing, and much more effective damping all around. This give the car a real quality feel to it. Well worth it I'd say.
I must say I do really rate the suspension setup you have on your Chim, it did feel particularity planted under acceleration and in the corners yet still very compliant on the road. I haven't decided against Nitrons, infact they would be my choice if I did decided to go for an aftermarket setup. I am attracted the Bilstein option purely as the setup is fit and forget and has had hours of R&D. I am a little concerned with adjustable suspension as I have been in a number of cars (including nitron cars) that have felt absolutely awful. When you have a number of options such as spring rates, ride height, rebound etc it appears that it is very easy to get the settings wrong and not so easy to get them right. If there was a universally acknowledged blueprint for the setup of Nitrons which gave the same result each time I would not hesitate to purchase but I am very weary of the fact the the key to performance is in the setup and this varys massively depending on who sets them up.I am also concerned the Nitrons recommend servicing every 2 years whereas my original Bilsteins have been fitted for over 13 years and are still in fairly good working order.
900T-R said:
In all honesty - for a road car, where adjustabiity after initial set up is of secondary importance at best, personally I'd either get the current spec Bilsteins (along with going back to Bilstein for OE starting with the Tuscan 2, the settings for the replacement dampersfor the older models were revised, too; although for some reason they are not featured on Powers website anymore ) or look at the Nitron level as a minimum for an upgrade.
As mentioned by 450Nick, top spec dampers will give a huge gain in overall composure, which transforms the whole driving experience on every trip. For starters, you'd be surprised about the reduction in rattles & squeeks.
Multipart supply the Mk4 Bilstien shocks and the original Eibach springs as fitted to the 500s so this was what I was looking at vs the Nitron NTR shocks. ) or look at the Nitron level as a minimum for an upgrade. As mentioned by 450Nick, top spec dampers will give a huge gain in overall composure, which transforms the whole driving experience on every trip. For starters, you'd be surprised about the reduction in rattles & squeeks.
TVR Beaver said:
Can you borrow some rears for an hour with 'other' tyres?.. Take it for a spin and see what you think??... How many miles / heat cycley have your Toyo's been thro... or are they still newish?
That might not be a bad shout to be honest. My Toyos the rears I have had on for about 15 months and the fronts 14 months. You can change your suspension to what you want, and pay top dollar..... BUT if it is not set-up properly it will be s
te.
You shouldn't have an issue with the Toyo's T1R's as they work well with the car, provided running right pressures suggest 24 front, and 26 rear (higher then the OEM Bridgestones, due to sofetr side walls), and they have bedded in approx 200 miles.
Yes the suspension on the car if original could proberly do witha refresh,..... unless doing some serious tracking Bilistien/Gaz/Protech should surfice....... but the good money is spent on the set-up afterwards IMHO.
te.You shouldn't have an issue with the Toyo's T1R's as they work well with the car, provided running right pressures suggest 24 front, and 26 rear (higher then the OEM Bridgestones, due to sofetr side walls), and they have bedded in approx 200 miles.
Yes the suspension on the car if original could proberly do witha refresh,..... unless doing some serious tracking Bilistien/Gaz/Protech should surfice....... but the good money is spent on the set-up afterwards IMHO.
Surprised no-one has mentioned longevity. I'm just having to replace springs on my Gaz Nickel set up 'only' 5 years after fitting. One spring on the rear broken in two places, the other rear cracked on the top coil and about to go, powder coating gone off all of them, and the nickel plating on the damper bodies pretty well shot too with mill scale forming on the steel of the eyes. But, the dampers are not leaking, the rods are clean as a whistle, still have a smooth action and seem serviceable for another year or two with a scrape, paint and new spring set provided I don't want to adjust them as the adjusters are seized. It's a shame the finish/weather protection has proved less then durable (or maybe I'm being unrealistic expecting more than 5 years of all weather service), as the basic product works well. I was a bit shocked the springs have proved so fragile 'though.
6/10 - could be great
6/10 - could be great
Mr Nordic said:
Hi Matt,
I am pleased with my set up, you can drive it before you decide if you want.
Y
I may take you up on that offer Yan, maybe wait a couple of months for your setup to bed and settle down. Would be interesting to drive both cars back to back along the same route to see the difference.I am pleased with my set up, you can drive it before you decide if you want.
Y
Hoover. said:
You can change your suspension to what you want, and pay top dollar..... BUT if it is not set-up properly it will be ste.
You shouldn't have an issue with the Toyo's T1R's as they work well with the car, provided running right pressures suggest 24 front, and 26 rear (higher then the OEM Bridgestones, due to sofetr side walls), and they have bedded in approx 200 miles.
Yes the suspension on the car if original could proberly do witha refresh,..... unless doing some serious tracking Bilistien/Gaz/Protech should surfice....... but the good money is spent on the set-up afterwards IMHO.
I must say I have always been happy with the Toyos but then I have never had the original Bridgestones to compare. I do run the Toyos at 24F and 26R and they definitely felt much better once bedded in. te.You shouldn't have an issue with the Toyo's T1R's as they work well with the car, provided running right pressures suggest 24 front, and 26 rear (higher then the OEM Bridgestones, due to sofetr side walls), and they have bedded in approx 200 miles.
Yes the suspension on the car if original could proberly do witha refresh,..... unless doing some serious tracking Bilistien/Gaz/Protech should surfice....... but the good money is spent on the set-up afterwards IMHO.
The general opinion does appear to be around the setup of new suspension. Nitron themselves offer a setup on the car:
http://www.nitron.co.uk/services_geo.htm#
Pupp said:
Surprised no-one has mentioned longevity. I'm just having to replace springs on my Gaz Nickel set up 'only' 5 years after fitting. One spring on the rear broken in two places, the other rear cracked on the top coil and about to go, powder coating gone off all of them, and the nickel plating on the damper bodies pretty well shot too with mill scale forming on the steel of the eyes. But, the dampers are not leaking, the rods are clean as a whistle, still have a smooth action and seem serviceable for another year or two with a scrape, paint and new spring set provided I don't want to adjust them as the adjusters are seized. It's a shame the finish/weather protection has proved less then durable (or maybe I'm being unrealistic expecting more than 5 years of all weather service), as the basic product works well. I was a bit shocked the springs have proved so fragile 'though.
6/10 - could be great
That is one of my concerns with going aftermarket, I have heard an number of horror stories about shocks / springs failing after a number of years. My Bilstiens have been on for 13 years and are still OK-ish.6/10 - could be great
I have just had the geo re-setup on my original suspension. First impressions are that the car feels great. The squat under hard acceleration seems to be improved. Travelling over small peaks and troughs at high speed on country roads does still feel a bit wallowly and the car does dive too much for my liking.
Over the next month I am going to make a concious effort to make a note of which situations the current setup works well and situations when I feel there could be improvement. Hopefully this should help me decide on what suspension I need based on my requirements
Before
After
Over the next month I am going to make a concious effort to make a note of which situations the current setup works well and situations when I feel there could be improvement. Hopefully this should help me decide on what suspension I need based on my requirements
Before
After
MPoxon said:
Englishman said:
Funnily enough I'm pondering exactly the same question as the originals are still working ok but have become annoying noisy. One dealer recommends Nitron Reds, another says stay original.
What are you thoughts about this so far?8yrs, 50k plus miles with one service.
Certainly one of the best modifications ever for my car.
The whole notion of 'serious track work' being the justification for more able equipment is a misanomer.
Serious track work needs a lot more than half decent dampers, it needs different spring rates and certainly better spec than the NTR's.
Adjustable suspension is very useful when you're touring and have a lot of weight in the boot to raise the ride height back up. It's also essential if you have a decent brake upgrade as my Billies wouldn't have coped with my 300's x 4 pots.
It allows the option of a track day or 2 should I wish. Suspension is so important to these cars and therefore put on the best you can afford. If you only do 1500 miles year without much real spirited driving, then fine.
My dad does 6k+ a year with his Chimaera on the original Billies and is happy with them, but it does not handle like mine or have the body control etc and certainly when touring in the Alps he wasn't able to 'enjoy' the roads tha same
I'm still amazed by the fact that more of you don't use damper bags to protect your investments. I've run them for 8yrs and my Nitrons look absolutely brand new, just open em up and give em a squit with WD40 at service time.
I've run Nitron springs for the whole 8yrs and they are in great condition as well. Probably send them for a service this winter and may try some Eibach springs, because I want to, not because they're needed.
Certainly one of the best modifications ever for my car.
The whole notion of 'serious track work' being the justification for more able equipment is a misanomer.
Serious track work needs a lot more than half decent dampers, it needs different spring rates and certainly better spec than the NTR's.
Adjustable suspension is very useful when you're touring and have a lot of weight in the boot to raise the ride height back up. It's also essential if you have a decent brake upgrade as my Billies wouldn't have coped with my 300's x 4 pots.
It allows the option of a track day or 2 should I wish. Suspension is so important to these cars and therefore put on the best you can afford. If you only do 1500 miles year without much real spirited driving, then fine.
My dad does 6k+ a year with his Chimaera on the original Billies and is happy with them, but it does not handle like mine or have the body control etc and certainly when touring in the Alps he wasn't able to 'enjoy' the roads tha same
I'm still amazed by the fact that more of you don't use damper bags to protect your investments. I've run them for 8yrs and my Nitrons look absolutely brand new, just open em up and give em a squit with WD40 at service time.
I've run Nitron springs for the whole 8yrs and they are in great condition as well. Probably send them for a service this winter and may try some Eibach springs, because I want to, not because they're needed.
Johno said:
The whole notion of 'serious track work' being the justification for more able equipment is a misanomer.
Suspension is so important to these cars and therefore put on the best you can afford.
Amen brother. The '£20K worth of engine upgrades and £600 Gaz Gold/Protech/etc' ethos has always nonplussed me given the strengths and weaknesses of the standard car.Suspension is so important to these cars and therefore put on the best you can afford.
I've got a customer with a pristine '99 400 (incidentally, it's the ex-Nimag demo car that I lost my TVR virginity in back in '99) who just bought some intake trumpets, a plenum insulating plate and 90 deg elbow with a new air filter as his first (and possibly only) engine mods. The car already has Intrax suspension and Wilwood brakes... I bet it's a more useable and satisfying car to drive 99% of the time than the monster modified 500s...
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