Manifold insulation
Discussion
In order to cool the cabin (and the engine bay a little further) Im looking into coating or wrapping the manifolds.
Im having one new one soon so it may be the ideal time to do this. Anyone got any experience of doing it?
I hear there can be problems as the heat all gets concentrated in other areas instead. I think I read in the bible that its ok to insulate the manifolds but leave the main cat Y-piece uncovered.
Im having one new one soon so it may be the ideal time to do this. Anyone got any experience of doing it?
I hear there can be problems as the heat all gets concentrated in other areas instead. I think I read in the bible that its ok to insulate the manifolds but leave the main cat Y-piece uncovered.
No probs with "moving" the heat.
don't use wraps. water from the front wheels will soak it the rust out your manifolds.
i had mine ceramic coated. costs about £500 and can be done in a variety of colours. silver, blue yellow etc.
won't stop the temperature whilst running (nothing does) but stops heat soak on shut down. i can touch mine after 2mins or so!
Peninsula did mine (and others)
don't use wraps. water from the front wheels will soak it the rust out your manifolds.
i had mine ceramic coated. costs about £500 and can be done in a variety of colours. silver, blue yellow etc.
won't stop the temperature whilst running (nothing does) but stops heat soak on shut down. i can touch mine after 2mins or so!
Peninsula did mine (and others)
I did a bit of mine adjacent to the Alternator with the intention of deflecting the heat from the alternator a bit. I got the wrap from Thermal Logic and it works well. Even after a good run you are able to touch the wrap and not loose your fingerprints.
The wrap cost £30 for 50m and I got a wirewrap tool from a local tool store for £10.
Zirconia Ceramic coating is a LOT more expensive.
The wrap cost £30 for 50m and I got a wirewrap tool from a local tool store for £10.
Zirconia Ceramic coating is a LOT more expensive.
All interesting stuff.
Coating seems too expensive for me though.
Is it possible to buy the coating in an aerosol can?
if not then perhaps I'll just wrap the same areas as on the wedge and see how I go.
Im surprised that wrapping can cause corrosion. Id have thought the wrapping would be dry all the time since its so hot.
Keep the advice coming.
(If I was feeling clever and had more time I would have written this in a "rap" style. Perhaps its best Im busyish today!)
Coating seems too expensive for me though.
Is it possible to buy the coating in an aerosol can?
if not then perhaps I'll just wrap the same areas as on the wedge and see how I go.
Im surprised that wrapping can cause corrosion. Id have thought the wrapping would be dry all the time since its so hot.
Keep the advice coming.
(If I was feeling clever and had more time I would have written this in a "rap" style. Perhaps its best Im busyish today!)
Don't know about anyone else but as soon as water hits my exhaust it is turned to steam and evaporates off.
Occasionally I get coolant expand out of the swirl pot onto the manifold, by the time I've shit my pants with the shock and popped the bonnet it's all gone from the manifolds. My underwear is normally moister
Occasionally I get coolant expand out of the swirl pot onto the manifold, by the time I've shit my pants with the shock and popped the bonnet it's all gone from the manifolds. My underwear is normally moister
I lagged my original manifolds about 8 years ago. It made a huge difference to both noise and heat.
However, I believe it was the lagging that was partially responsible for those manifolds creating a huge number of stress and heat cracks.
The original 4.3 manifolds were prone to this anyway and I suspect it would be a different story with the 500s.
However, I believe it was the lagging that was partially responsible for those manifolds creating a huge number of stress and heat cracks.
The original 4.3 manifolds were prone to this anyway and I suspect it would be a different story with the 500s.
i put extra heatsheilds on originally and they worked well.
as you can see from the photo below, the wheel is right next to the manifold and so will get water damage. but they do a laquer coating that helps. check out prior threads as many people had rotting/cracking manifolds
£500 is an estimate as it was done with other stuff.
it can't be aerosoled on. i had new long headers done prior to fitting.
so i had both sides done and the Y-piece. i thought it quite reasonable at the time so check it out.
as you can see from the photo below, the wheel is right next to the manifold and so will get water damage. but they do a laquer coating that helps. check out prior threads as many people had rotting/cracking manifolds
£500 is an estimate as it was done with other stuff.
it can't be aerosoled on. i had new long headers done prior to fitting.
so i had both sides done and the Y-piece. i thought it quite reasonable at the time so check it out.
I checked temps on my manifolds before coating - there are very hot spots where the pipes curve. Ceramic coating (internal / external - just black operational stuff not the bling versions) certainly reduced these temps as well as evening temps all over the system. Pretty sure heat is going out in gas & no noticable increase in heat elsewhere.
Get an Infra red thermometer & look at the temp differentials around the exhaust system, then watch as conducted heat creeps from the hot spots. I think you'll be surprised.
In my mind the cost of this (only @ £300 - I think you pay more for the bling stuff) is nothing compared to saving the expense of starters / alts / sensors / hoses (& even fibreglass) being burnt out, in addition to prolonging the life of extortionately expensive manifolds / Y-pieces!
All my own opinions of course!
Dave
Get an Infra red thermometer & look at the temp differentials around the exhaust system, then watch as conducted heat creeps from the hot spots. I think you'll be surprised.
In my mind the cost of this (only @ £300 - I think you pay more for the bling stuff) is nothing compared to saving the expense of starters / alts / sensors / hoses (& even fibreglass) being burnt out, in addition to prolonging the life of extortionately expensive manifolds / Y-pieces!
All my own opinions of course!
Dave
spend, tell me more about exactly what you used. Sounds good.
boosted, I was surprised when I got the griff that the big side vents in front of the doors arent for real. i bet opening these up (and fitting ducts) would create a lot of air flow. It would probably also bake the doors and possible the occupants as well though!
boosted, I was surprised when I got the griff that the big side vents in front of the doors arent for real. i bet opening these up (and fitting ducts) would create a lot of air flow. It would probably also bake the doors and possible the occupants as well though!
DustyC said:
spend, tell me more about exactly what you used. Sounds good.
boosted, I was surprised when I got the griff that the big side vents in front of the doors arent for real. i bet opening these up (and fitting ducts) would create a lot of air flow. It would probably also bake the doors and possible the occupants as well though!
This is what I'm doing with my,err, cough TR. I have to move the wings out an inch.
I've trawled through many threads on this topic as I have considered doing this on my V8S and opinions seem to vary. So to sum up what I have found.....
It would seem that wrapping can reduce under bonnet temperatures quite dramatically. This can increase the life of many of the components that may otherwise suffer from prolonged exposure to high temps.
Some though have experienced problems with accelerated corrosion. I agree that the heat of the exhaust should soon evaporate any moisture which gets onto the wrapping, when it is run. But, if it becomes damp whilst stationary for any length of time this could lead to problems.
Another one I found was the tendancy for 'hot spots' to occur at any gap, or thin spot in the wrapping. This could lead to stress cracking. Also the heat is pushed further down he exhaust, so be aware of increased temps in the section of exhaust beyond the treated length.
I haven't completely written off this idea, but am focusing more on shielding the other vulnerable components.
I'm sure there will be other opinions along soon.
It would seem that wrapping can reduce under bonnet temperatures quite dramatically. This can increase the life of many of the components that may otherwise suffer from prolonged exposure to high temps.
Some though have experienced problems with accelerated corrosion. I agree that the heat of the exhaust should soon evaporate any moisture which gets onto the wrapping, when it is run. But, if it becomes damp whilst stationary for any length of time this could lead to problems.
Another one I found was the tendancy for 'hot spots' to occur at any gap, or thin spot in the wrapping. This could lead to stress cracking. Also the heat is pushed further down he exhaust, so be aware of increased temps in the section of exhaust beyond the treated length.
I haven't completely written off this idea, but am focusing more on shielding the other vulnerable components.
I'm sure there will be other opinions along soon.
Wrapping to excess will cause hot spots especially on bends etc. You should wrap ones plus a quarter overlap I read somewhere. I wrapped my turbo's and when I removed the wrap I found the exhaust housings were flaking very badly. After that I fitted a shield instead. If it's really hot then I prefer an air gap & shield.
Dusty C, not sure what else you are asking for?
I was referring to internal and external ceramic coating (need to remove pre-cats). As for cracking / rust ... ceramic coating is impervious and after treatment is similar to teflon non-stick pan (need to apply silicon after curing). If coated only external all the heat is still on the metal, internal coating insulates the metal as well.
As for air flow, I reckon the spoiler assists greatly in creating low pressure under the engine bay. I use extensively tailored bits of Wickes squareline gutter, with sacrificial slots and covered with Tape. Only lost 1 'tooth' over last year, but it makes a hell of a noise when it grounds.
Dave
I was referring to internal and external ceramic coating (need to remove pre-cats). As for cracking / rust ... ceramic coating is impervious and after treatment is similar to teflon non-stick pan (need to apply silicon after curing). If coated only external all the heat is still on the metal, internal coating insulates the metal as well.
As for air flow, I reckon the spoiler assists greatly in creating low pressure under the engine bay. I use extensively tailored bits of Wickes squareline gutter, with sacrificial slots and covered with Tape. Only lost 1 'tooth' over last year, but it makes a hell of a noise when it grounds.
Dave
Having "lurked" 
the Griff forum for a couple of months I now have to sign up. I admit to being the "Punter" mentioned by Apprentice earlier in this thread who traded in a Wedge 350i for a Griff 500 from Adrian Blyth last year.
Exhaust wrap was needed as the car has a full Zertek stainless manifold & system
- (page 3 Type A on their website) with their 4 pipe exit. Within a day of ownership I had clocked a few miles, burned out a plug lead and was melting the airflow meter. Discussed the problem with David Batty and wrap was suggested as the way forward to protect the leads. This was done mid September last year and I've had no problems since. The condition of the wrap hasn't deteriorated since it's original, smokey, burn-in. The car is driven in any weather but isn't my main car. It has been such an effective remedy I've just wrapped the manifold being fitted to my TR4. As for suppliers, also see Moss, the TR & MG suppliers who sell the ThermoTec product range or else Think Automotive. Both in SW London.
the Griff forum for a couple of months I now have to sign up. I admit to being the "Punter" mentioned by Apprentice earlier in this thread who traded in a Wedge 350i for a Griff 500 from Adrian Blyth last year. Exhaust wrap was needed as the car has a full Zertek stainless manifold & system
- (page 3 Type A on their website) with their 4 pipe exit. Within a day of ownership I had clocked a few miles, burned out a plug lead and was melting the airflow meter. Discussed the problem with David Batty and wrap was suggested as the way forward to protect the leads. This was done mid September last year and I've had no problems since. The condition of the wrap hasn't deteriorated since it's original, smokey, burn-in. The car is driven in any weather but isn't my main car. It has been such an effective remedy I've just wrapped the manifold being fitted to my TR4. As for suppliers, also see Moss, the TR & MG suppliers who sell the ThermoTec product range or else Think Automotive. Both in SW London.
I've saved them for my next engine.I looked at ceramic boots but wasn't sure I could get them long enough. The manifold design meant damage was quite a long way up the plug leads, not to mention the melting airflow meter. Wrap has, in my case, fixed both problems and was economical (Adrian Blyth paid). I'm happy with the result but agree your comments about shields and an air gap. If Dusty is trying to reduce underbonnet temp then wrap should help - but do it before the mainifold is fitted !
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