Discussion
What next????
Plate that holds droplink and connects to end of ARB has, er, disconnected itself!
So, on process of removing ARB just now and got me thinking......is the rear ARB needed? And has anyone experience without? Better? Worse?
Finally, I know nothing about welding, can it be welded insitu, whilst on drive? Obviously I wont be doing the welding..........
Thanks!
Dave
Plate that holds droplink and connects to end of ARB has, er, disconnected itself!
So, on process of removing ARB just now and got me thinking......is the rear ARB needed? And has anyone experience without? Better? Worse?
Finally, I know nothing about welding, can it be welded insitu, whilst on drive? Obviously I wont be doing the welding..........
Thanks!
Dave
Not quite true... There are a lot of pre cats that have rear ARB - some were fitted by the factory or later in the car's history. The pre cat suspension was a lot harder/stiffer than the 500 and adding it could cause issues.
You don't need the ARB in as much the car will be driveable but as the ARB form part of the suspension in conjunction with the shocks and springs, not using it does not cause a problem but the handling will be changed. It will be like driving with a softer suspension on the back. The rear will try and twist the car because of the increased body roll. Those that have removed the rear ARB have typically stiffened the rear suspension to compensate.
So in summary not a problem in the short term - disconnect the droplink on the side that has broken. In the long term expect the handling to be affected. A lot will depend on how you drive the car as the lack of the ARB will generally only be felt in corners when the car starts to roll.
You don't need the ARB in as much the car will be driveable but as the ARB form part of the suspension in conjunction with the shocks and springs, not using it does not cause a problem but the handling will be changed. It will be like driving with a softer suspension on the back. The rear will try and twist the car because of the increased body roll. Those that have removed the rear ARB have typically stiffened the rear suspension to compensate.
So in summary not a problem in the short term - disconnect the droplink on the side that has broken. In the long term expect the handling to be affected. A lot will depend on how you drive the car as the lack of the ARB will generally only be felt in corners when the car starts to roll.
Sam Gamgee said:
What next????
Plate that holds droplink and connects to end of ARB has, er, disconnected itself!
So, on process of removing ARB just now and got me thinking......is the rear ARB needed? And has anyone experience without? Better? Worse?
Finally, I know nothing about welding, can it be welded insitu, whilst on drive? Obviously I wont be doing the welding..........
Thanks!
Dave
I think it 'can' be welded in situ, but it is easy enough to take off the wishbone anyhow (if the bolts are free enough) and you would end up with a better weld.Plate that holds droplink and connects to end of ARB has, er, disconnected itself!
So, on process of removing ARB just now and got me thinking......is the rear ARB needed? And has anyone experience without? Better? Worse?
Finally, I know nothing about welding, can it be welded insitu, whilst on drive? Obviously I wont be doing the welding..........
Thanks!
Dave
As said it depends on how you drive it. Without the rear ARB mine feels noticeably softer at the rear, rolls more and generally feels not nice when pressing on in the dry. It is probably a bit more predictable in the wet as softer generally gives you more grip. I have tried disconnecting the rear when competing in the wet and felt slightly less likely to end up in the hedge.
If you still have the old rubber drop links taking it off will be less noticeable because the whole kaboode doesn’t do anything until it has taken up all the squidgy rubber slack anyway.
If you still have the old rubber drop links taking it off will be less noticeable because the whole kaboode doesn’t do anything until it has taken up all the squidgy rubber slack anyway.
Well the other week I found my O/S drop link plate had fractured (N/S still hanging in there), god knows how long it had been like that?
The consequence is I've been running without the rear ARB for a few weeks now.
The first thing I noticed was the annoying "Clack, Clack" sound on pitching the car into a bend has gone, that must have been the broken plate all along even though I inspected it when I fitted the rear Leven drop links.
Must have missed the cracked plate under the Dinitrol rustproofing goo.
The second thing I noticed (not surprisingly) was it rolls a fraction more at the rear.
But to be perfectly honest if I had to choose between with or without, for normal road driving, I am inclined to say I prefer the car without the rear ARB.
The thing is I'm comparing my new "no rear ARB" set up with a car that had one busted plate and one intact one.
So its not really surprising the car feels more balanced with no rear ARB right now.
The ARB goes back on this weekend with beefed up plates both sides.
I will see how it feels then and let you all know.
Perhaps the answer will be to keep the ARB (with intact plates) and go down two clicks on the rear Gaz Gold Pro dampers, I seem to recall Haircit Mike saying to optimise handling the rear should be softer than the front.
NB: While checking the car over when I found the broken plate I decided to raise the rear end by 20mm as the springs have fully settled now.
Boy what a difference that nose down stance has on stability, much much better than the level front to rear posture it had before.
The consequence is I've been running without the rear ARB for a few weeks now.
The first thing I noticed was the annoying "Clack, Clack" sound on pitching the car into a bend has gone, that must have been the broken plate all along even though I inspected it when I fitted the rear Leven drop links.
Must have missed the cracked plate under the Dinitrol rustproofing goo.
The second thing I noticed (not surprisingly) was it rolls a fraction more at the rear.
But to be perfectly honest if I had to choose between with or without, for normal road driving, I am inclined to say I prefer the car without the rear ARB.
The thing is I'm comparing my new "no rear ARB" set up with a car that had one busted plate and one intact one.
So its not really surprising the car feels more balanced with no rear ARB right now.
The ARB goes back on this weekend with beefed up plates both sides.
I will see how it feels then and let you all know.
Perhaps the answer will be to keep the ARB (with intact plates) and go down two clicks on the rear Gaz Gold Pro dampers, I seem to recall Haircit Mike saying to optimise handling the rear should be softer than the front.
NB: While checking the car over when I found the broken plate I decided to raise the rear end by 20mm as the springs have fully settled now.
Boy what a difference that nose down stance has on stability, much much better than the level front to rear posture it had before.
Thanks fellas, interesting stuff!
At the moment I have just left the arb on but disconnected and tied up, so to speak!
So will try the car without arb tomorrow (took off other d/lonk!) and see what happens when pushed a little. I use the car on road only, very rarely in the wet.
Oh, forgot to say it is a `94 500, SH d/links fitted and Nitrons also, see how it goes and `harden` them up a little if need be.
I, also, decided to clean up and lube, then check over protection so have no idea as to how long I`ve been driving without!!!
Dave.
At the moment I have just left the arb on but disconnected and tied up, so to speak!
So will try the car without arb tomorrow (took off other d/lonk!) and see what happens when pushed a little. I use the car on road only, very rarely in the wet.
Oh, forgot to say it is a `94 500, SH d/links fitted and Nitrons also, see how it goes and `harden` them up a little if need be.
I, also, decided to clean up and lube, then check over protection so have no idea as to how long I`ve been driving without!!!
Dave.
Hedgehopper said:
Thanks for that....probs gonna order a pair in case I dont like the drive minus ARB!Dave.
jesfirth said:
IMO steve v8s is spot on. I tried sprinting mine without the rear arb and found it less predictable in the dry. It was slightly better in the wet though. i have refitted mine and it has made the car easier to drive through the twsity bits
+ loads of respect!!If Jez is agreeing with Steve, then you are not going to get better advice/information/feedback than that!!
Trev
Update.
My rear ARB is back on with the beefed up plates welded in place, so the wishbones are now properly connected to the ARB via my Leven rose jointed links.
I also took the opportunity to fit poly bushes to the front & rear ARB mounts, the rears requiring larger saddles to house the new bushes.
Conclusion:
With a cracked ARB plate & or worn standard drop links, you are probably better off without a rear ARB.
But, with solid ARB brackets, decent drop links and nice new bushes you are better off keeping the rear ARB on.
Finally everything is working exactly as it should and the rear feels totally planted, as does the front.
My rear ARB is back on with the beefed up plates welded in place, so the wishbones are now properly connected to the ARB via my Leven rose jointed links.
I also took the opportunity to fit poly bushes to the front & rear ARB mounts, the rears requiring larger saddles to house the new bushes.
Conclusion:
With a cracked ARB plate & or worn standard drop links, you are probably better off without a rear ARB.
But, with solid ARB brackets, decent drop links and nice new bushes you are better off keeping the rear ARB on.
Finally everything is working exactly as it should and the rear feels totally planted, as does the front.
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