Prang Avoidance Tips?
Discussion
Having lusted for years, I am about to collect my 1st TVR - a Griff 4.3BV. My last RWD car was a 
Vauxhall Chevette 1.3, so I am a little nervous about all that power to the rear! I intend to go on a Ride Drive course, perhaps after 3-4 weeks driving. In the meantime, any 
prang avoidance tips would be much appreciated....
Vauxhall Chevette 1.3, so I am a little nervous about all that power to the rear! I intend to go on a Ride Drive course, perhaps after 3-4 weeks driving. In the meantime, any prang avoidance tips would be much appreciated.... 
quote:
Having lusted for years, I am about to collect my 1st TVR - a Griff 4.3BV. My last RWD car was a
Do everything smoothly & you'll be fine - don't mash the brake or the accelerator. Try & get on a track-day, or a performance driving course - I can recommend www.1stlotus.co.uk/ (not just for lotuses)
cheers,
Craig
P.S. How do you know it is a BV?
Don't engine brake as it can lock up the rear wheels and spin you off into the scenary. Gears are for going, brakes are for not going.
You don't have to wait until 6700 rpm to change up.
Remember there are several throttle positions between none and flat to floor.
Don't push it in the wet!
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
You don't have to wait until 6700 rpm to change up.
Remember there are several throttle positions between none and flat to floor.
Don't push it in the wet!
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
Drive within your limits. Don't hoof it in the wet or out of roundabouts 'till you're used to it. Use common sense - what are green traffic lights going to do next.. if you can't see round a corner you certainly don't know about the tractor/sheep parked in the middle of the road, of course the driver in front is criminally insane.. etc
Enjoy it.
Enjoy it.
quote:
quote:
Having lusted for years, I am about to collect my 1st TVR - a Griff 4.3BV. My last RWD car was a
Do everything smoothly & you'll be fine - don't mash the brake or the accelerator. Try & get on a track-day, or a performance driving course - I can recommend www.1stlotus.co.uk/ (not just for lotuses)
cheers,
Craig
P.S. How do you know it is a BV?
It was advertised by the (reputable) dealer as a BV. I understand that the engine no. is indicative? any other ways to be sure - other than removing heads?
Biggest problem I've had is locking the wheels in the wet. You don't realise how much you get used to ABS, and whilst I've only done it maybe 3 or 4 times, you immediately think "Sh*t, yeah, no ABS", and brake a little more gently.
Every time though, it slid in a straight line.
Which was nice
>> Edited by CleG on Wednesday 22 May 19:37
Every time though, it slid in a straight line.
Which was nice
>> Edited by CleG on Wednesday 22 May 19:37
Welcome to the clan Mark. Good choice in Tiv too 
One tip from me is: watch where you park it. Tivs seem to be 'Pr@t who can't park' magnets.
And, take it as easy in the dry, as in the wet at first. They can and will bite if you don't respect them.
Apart from that, you won't stop grinning. No other Tiv sounds beefier
Tiv
4.3 Griff
One tip from me is: watch where you park it. Tivs seem to be 'Pr@t who can't park' magnets.
And, take it as easy in the dry, as in the wet at first. They can and will bite if you don't respect them.
Apart from that, you won't stop grinning. No other Tiv sounds beefier
Tiv
4.3 Griff
I've had my Chim for three months now and while all this 'don't give it too much etc' is sensible advice but you can give it LOTS without it breaking away.
A bit of enthusiastic right foot work in the dry is fine as long as your tyres are top notch and the pressures are OK – these guys who spin it must be REALLY giving it some welly.
I drive very quickly sometimes in mine and it never budges on any corner so you guys must be overcooking it!
Squirrelz – how come you're having to break hard all the time?
And as for no engine breaking – I always go through the box when coming to a roudabout or light – never a problem. Why should engine breaking be any more of a problem in a Chim than another RWD car when you're decellerating at normal speeds
I'm talking normal speeds here – from 50/60. If I was driving in a really spirited way round the countryside I'd probably be less inclined to do this.
>> Edited by MikeyT on Wednesday 22 May 01:20
A bit of enthusiastic right foot work in the dry is fine as long as your tyres are top notch and the pressures are OK – these guys who spin it must be REALLY giving it some welly.
I drive very quickly sometimes in mine and it never budges on any corner so you guys must be overcooking it!
Squirrelz – how come you're having to break hard all the time?
And as for no engine breaking – I always go through the box when coming to a roudabout or light – never a problem. Why should engine breaking be any more of a problem in a Chim than another RWD car when you're decellerating at normal speeds
I'm talking normal speeds here – from 50/60. If I was driving in a really spirited way round the countryside I'd probably be less inclined to do this.
>> Edited by MikeyT on Wednesday 22 May 01:20
quote:
And as for no engine breaking – I always go through the box when coming to a roudabout or light – never a problem. Why should engine breaking be any more of a problem in a Chim than another RWD car when you're decellerating at normal speeds
1. The transmission was designed to accelerate the car not stop it.
2. When the car brakes, the weight is thrown forward and this reduces the grip on the rear tyres. But wait! Engine braking is only working through the rear tyres which means the amount of braking that can be done is significantly lower.
3. The TVR has a big torque engine. Get the revs wrong even by a few revs and it will lock up the rear wheels (less grip etc) and you will spin. Most novice spins on track days are achieved this way.
4. Yes you can get away with it but you can automatically start doing it without thinking in wet conditions and bang another wrecked TVR.
5. It is incredibly slow because each gear change can take a second or two which means us other drivers have gone past, braked, slipped into the gear of their choice and left you while you are thinking "how did they do that". It is also very jerky as each gear change causes weight transfer which unsettles the car.
This means that the ability to go round the corner is also jeopardised. Not normally a problem but it reduces the safety margin if something on expected happens like the person signalling off suddenly carries on.
6. It increases transmission wear especially on the clutch. New clutch £750. New brake pads £40. Garages love engine brakers as it enables them to buy their kids that little extra present at Christmas.
I rest my case.
Steve
It's not that difficult to avoid crashing your new Griff. The only thing to remember is that they produce enormous amounts of torque from zero revs. Just make sure you feed the power in smoothly rather than (in many cars) by flooring the accelerator. I have never had any problems with the brakes (wet or dry) and I don't really miss ABS. The cars are very light and (as you will discover on track days) you can brake very hard without locking them up. Follow Steves advice, he races them and knows about these things.
The only moments I have had were both in the damp, once pulling out of a T junction I accelerated a little too eagerly to blend into the traffic and the tail stepped out a tad, and the other overtaking up the hill out of Tetsworth before Goodwood I gave it a little too much to get past a few cars and again it stepped out a bit, caught it both times no problem but I imagine if I had really planted the throttle (which I wouldn't) it could have developed into a ful spin quite quickly. I agree with others here, give it plenty in the dry and enjoy it, obviously if it is pi55ing down you'll be reminded to be carefull! but watch out for those autumn mornings when it seems dry but is a little damp, they are tail happy in these conditions. Rich...
Rich... quote:
quote:
And as for no engine breaking – I always go through the box when coming to a roudabout or light – never a problem. Why should engine breaking be any more of a problem in a Chim than another RWD car when you're decellerating at normal speeds
1. The transmission was designed to accelerate the car not stop it.
2. When the car brakes, the weight is thrown forward and this reduces the grip on the rear tyres. But wait! Engine braking is only working through the rear tyres which means the amount of braking that can be done is significantly lower.
3. The TVR has a big torque engine. Get the revs wrong even by a few revs and it will lock up the rear wheels (less grip etc) and you will spin. Most novice spins on track days are achieved this way.
4. Yes you can get away with it but you can automatically start doing it without thinking in wet conditions and bang another wrecked TVR.
5. It is incredibly slow because each gear change can take a second or two which means us other drivers have gone past, braked, slipped into the gear of their choice and left you while you are thinking "how did they do that". It is also very jerky as each gear change causes weight transfer which unsettles the car.
This means that the ability to go round the corner is also jeopardised. Not normally a problem but it reduces the safety margin if something on expected happens like the person signalling off suddenly carries on.
6. It increases transmission wear especially on the clutch. New clutch £750. New brake pads £40. Garages love engine brakers as it enables them to buy their kids that little extra present at Christmas.
I rest my case.
Steve
Points understood Steve, but I'm not coming into a corner at 60/70, revving like mad and changing down a gear, I'm coming into a roundabout at 30/40 – makes no difference at all to the balance of the car at all
, just saves my brakes. We're talking 1500/200 revs here and going down in rpm! I cannot believe it makes that much difference at 30mph/40mph – weight thrown forward etc – if that's true then the Chim must be very unstable indeed
>> Edited by MikeyT on Wednesday 22 May 14:43
>> Edited by MikeyT on Wednesday 22 May 14:45
Point is not that it's particularly bad in this example, but that it's a bad habbit to get into. It can be very dangerous to do this at higher speeds or in the wet, for example. Most of the accidents I've seen at TVR track days have come from people losing the back end under braking. The car is at its least stable, TVR have (IMO) too much rear brake bias anyway and adding engine braking is a recipe for disaster. I agree with Steve: brakes are for stopping, engines are for going.
But why save your brake pads which are cheap to replace and knacker your drive train and clutch instead? They have to take the same force that the brakes would but they were not designed for it and are a lot more expensive to replace.
The weight transfer at 30 mph is still a couple of hundred pounds and at 1500-2000 rpm there is still enough torque to lock up the wheels.
If you were doing 70 mph coming to a roundabout would you use your brakes then? Yes Ok what about 60? yes 50 Maybe. What happens if you come upto a roundabout and the surface is greasy? Would you engine brake now? You might if you were doing 30-40 mph but that could be the grip equivalent of doing 60-70 and that could be the time where you regret it.
I have had to assess people on track days and it is amazing the number of TVR drivers who do this including one chap who insisted on doing it in the wet on the grounds that using the brakes caused the car to slide about! I have never been so pleased to get out in my life as the car was only inches away from locking up. Talking with many other assessers this seems to be a common fault.
Steve
The weight transfer at 30 mph is still a couple of hundred pounds and at 1500-2000 rpm there is still enough torque to lock up the wheels.
If you were doing 70 mph coming to a roundabout would you use your brakes then? Yes Ok what about 60? yes 50 Maybe. What happens if you come upto a roundabout and the surface is greasy? Would you engine brake now? You might if you were doing 30-40 mph but that could be the grip equivalent of doing 60-70 and that could be the time where you regret it.
I have had to assess people on track days and it is amazing the number of TVR drivers who do this including one chap who insisted on doing it in the wet on the grounds that using the brakes caused the car to slide about! I have never been so pleased to get out in my life as the car was only inches away from locking up. Talking with many other assessers this seems to be a common fault.
Steve
OK guys I understand and I certainly don't think I would do it in the wet or from 70mph!
I'm not crazy with the car at all ... just braking to a stop and then slipping the thing into neutral just doesn't seem the right way to drive (my grandad used to do it in his Peugeot 504).
We're not talking about on the track here, we're talking on the road – and does going down through the box put THAT much stress on the engine – not any more than redlining the bugger I'm sure and I never do that!
I'm not crazy with the car at all ... just braking to a stop and then slipping the thing into neutral just doesn't seem the right way to drive (my grandad used to do it in his Peugeot 504).
We're not talking about on the track here, we're talking on the road – and does going down through the box put THAT much stress on the engine – not any more than redlining the bugger I'm sure and I never do that!
I have had to assess people on track days and it is amazing the number of TVR drivers who do this including one chap who insisted on doing it in the wet on the grounds that using the brakes caused the car to slide about!
Steve
Thanks Steve for this detailed comment. I think the question is how do we break the habit of engine braking? My everyday car is a 1.8 Alfa 156, which I routinely thrash
. I have realised just today how much I rely on engine braking for what I consider to be smooth, fast driving, eg. approaching a rounadbout at 70 and using combined brakes and engine braking to go into the bend in the correct gear (2nd in the Alfa), at a speed I am happy with, and with the engine in the power band ready for a punt up to the rev limiter. I realise the TVR will be a completely different story - are we looking at approaching the corner under normal braking but in 4th or 5th gear? It seems a bit extreme. Where should the downchange occur - just before the apex? If so, does this not unbalance the car in itself after you have committed to the bend(assuming by this point there is really limited time to change down before we have to concentrate on steering through the bend)? I hope this will all become apparent on Friday when I get the car (is it
Christmas already?)
Steve
Thanks Steve for this detailed comment. I think the question is how do we break the habit of engine braking? My everyday car is a 1.8 Alfa 156, which I routinely thrash
. I have realised just today how much I rely on engine braking for what I consider to be smooth, fast driving, eg. approaching a rounadbout at 70 and using combined brakes and engine braking to go into the bend in the correct gear (2nd in the Alfa), at a speed I am happy with, and with the engine in the power band ready for a punt up to the rev limiter. I realise the TVR will be a completely different story - are we looking at approaching the corner under normal braking but in 4th or 5th gear? It seems a bit extreme. Where should the downchange occur - just before the apex? If so, does this not unbalance the car in itself after you have committed to the bend(assuming by this point there is really limited time to change down before we have to concentrate on steering through the bend)? I hope this will all become apparent on Friday when I get the car (is itChristmas already?) 
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