Stalling and loss of power - '94 Griff 500
Discussion
I've had a couple of problems which have been getting steadily worse over the last few weeks:
1. Engine stalling when cold - it stalls repeatedly immediately after starting, and requires me to keep my foot on the gas for several minutes until it'll stay running.
2. Loss of power - sometimes total- (usually on motorways). I've noticed a sudden and short-lived loss of power a few times while cruising at 70-80mph. Tonight I was crusing at this speed and had a total loss of power, followed by a stall. This was 5 minutes into my journey. I then struggled to get it restarted (same problem as 1), but after that it was fine for the rest of the journey (i.e. the next half hour).
Do these symptoms sound familiar to anybody?
Ian
1. Engine stalling when cold - it stalls repeatedly immediately after starting, and requires me to keep my foot on the gas for several minutes until it'll stay running.
2. Loss of power - sometimes total- (usually on motorways). I've noticed a sudden and short-lived loss of power a few times while cruising at 70-80mph. Tonight I was crusing at this speed and had a total loss of power, followed by a stall. This was 5 minutes into my journey. I then struggled to get it restarted (same problem as 1), but after that it was fine for the rest of the journey (i.e. the next half hour).
Do these symptoms sound familiar to anybody?
Ian
I had a similar problem with mine (1995 model) last year.
Turned out to be the famous stepper motor. Had it removed and thoroughly cleaned - Hey Presto, it don't stall or lose power no more! - Maybe the same problem with yours?
A bit unnerving on the MWay and it happened a couple of times whilst overtaking. NOT ideal.
Turned out to be the famous stepper motor. Had it removed and thoroughly cleaned - Hey Presto, it don't stall or lose power no more! - Maybe the same problem with yours?
A bit unnerving on the MWay and it happened a couple of times whilst overtaking. NOT ideal.
No, that bit I didn't get.
It did however stall when it had warmed up. When the power loss came, it would stall 50% of the time. I'd have to wait for 5 or 6 minutes before it would start again.
It also ran as if it was on 6 cylinders when the problem occurred.
Even though these symptoms are'nt identical to yours, I still think its worth cleaning the stepper motor as it does'nt cost anything and might do the trick.
It did however stall when it had warmed up. When the power loss came, it would stall 50% of the time. I'd have to wait for 5 or 6 minutes before it would start again.
It also ran as if it was on 6 cylinders when the problem occurred.
Even though these symptoms are'nt identical to yours, I still think its worth cleaning the stepper motor as it does'nt cost anything and might do the trick.
Has your fuel regulator been squeezed? This is often done to get more fuel at the top end to combine with extra air after modding (the standard injectors run out of puff) but the effect is to increase fuel everywhere, making it too rich at startup and low revs / light throttle.
You might notice some fluffiness under these conditions (i.e. not crisp).
To get the car started, advance the dizzy and it should fire and tick over no prob.
You might notice some fluffiness under these conditions (i.e. not crisp).
To get the car started, advance the dizzy and it should fire and tick over no prob.
Thanks for the suggestions. It seems to be intermittent.
Over the last few days the loss of power problem has occurred once on each 45 minute journey - usually about 10 or 15 minutes into the journey. It's usually when I'm cruising at 70-80 on a motorway in 5th. I get a sudden loss of power, for about a second, then it kicks back into life again. I'm often not accelerating or changing gear at the time.
It hasn't stalled when warm for the last 4 or 5 journeys now, and cold starting hasn't been a problem for the last few days either. I've been pumping a few times on the gas before cold starts.
Over the last few days the loss of power problem has occurred once on each 45 minute journey - usually about 10 or 15 minutes into the journey. It's usually when I'm cruising at 70-80 on a motorway in 5th. I get a sudden loss of power, for about a second, then it kicks back into life again. I'm often not accelerating or changing gear at the time.
It hasn't stalled when warm for the last 4 or 5 journeys now, and cold starting hasn't been a problem for the last few days either. I've been pumping a few times on the gas before cold starts.
itm,
I have a likely cure for your problem.
I had exactly the same intermittent fault on my 1995 Griff 500, which persisted for the first 3 years of my ownership (I've had it for 6 years now). The problem was reported to two different dealers, who could find nothing wrong.
It was eventually fixed by Peninsula in Devon, read on:
The injector drive outputs from the ECU are in the form of a pair of wires, one for each bank of cylinders. These wires go into the plenum chamber on top of the engine, where each one is spliced into 4 more, one for each injector in the left & right banks.
The two joints are supposed to be soldered and insulated with heat shrink sleeve, MINE HAD NEVER BEEN SOLDERED, so over the years the wires corroded and started making intermittent contact - hence poor running and complete cut-outs occasionally.
I understand the looms were bought in from Land Rover; it seems from other tales of woe I've heard that there was a faulty batch around 94/95, which made their way into a number of Griffs around that time.
Mine's been perfect
since the joints were soldered - which they should have been in the first place of course! 
Hope this helps.
I have a likely cure for your problem.
I had exactly the same intermittent fault on my 1995 Griff 500, which persisted for the first 3 years of my ownership (I've had it for 6 years now). The problem was reported to two different dealers, who could find nothing wrong.
It was eventually fixed by Peninsula in Devon, read on:
The injector drive outputs from the ECU are in the form of a pair of wires, one for each bank of cylinders. These wires go into the plenum chamber on top of the engine, where each one is spliced into 4 more, one for each injector in the left & right banks.
The two joints are supposed to be soldered and insulated with heat shrink sleeve, MINE HAD NEVER BEEN SOLDERED, so over the years the wires corroded and started making intermittent contact - hence poor running and complete cut-outs occasionally.
I understand the looms were bought in from Land Rover; it seems from other tales of woe I've heard that there was a faulty batch around 94/95, which made their way into a number of Griffs around that time.
Mine's been perfect
since the joints were soldered - which they should have been in the first place of course! Hope this helps.
old64er said:
pumping the pedal before starting should have no effect on a fuel injected car. When you say lack of power, is it a complete loss of power? or just a reduction and for how long?
It feels like a complete loss of power - i.e. not just a misfire. The car suddenly decelerates sharply - as if I'd hit the brakes - but after a second the power resumes, and the car lurches forward! On one occasion the engine actually stalled completely - again while I was travelling at 70mph. I had to cruise over to the hard shoulder and try to restart it. On this occasion I had a hard time restarting it - it would keep firing up OK, but then stall immediately.
>> Edited by itm on Sunday 25th July 11:43
sounds electrical.
neither air nor fuel would cut it in this way (except perhaps a dodgy fuel regulator).
if you are not getting a misfire, it should be pre-dizzy cap. check coil (inc terminals), king lead, rotor, LT side inc LT amplifier module.
does the rev counter die with the fault? this is derived from the LT side.
good luck
neither air nor fuel would cut it in this way (except perhaps a dodgy fuel regulator).
if you are not getting a misfire, it should be pre-dizzy cap. check coil (inc terminals), king lead, rotor, LT side inc LT amplifier module.
does the rev counter die with the fault? this is derived from the LT side.
good luck
itm,
Yup, your symptoms are exactly the same as I used to get.
Mine varied from a slight fluttering misfire, through coughing & spluttering to it completely dying. I had to coast to the side of the road a number of times. Mostly, it would restart straight away on the key, once or twice I had to wait 10 or 20 mins before it would go again.
When yours does it, is there a ‘rotten egg’ smell from the cats? Mine produced it when, because of the poor connections, one injector bank would shut down until I cycled the power.
I think sometimes because of the poor connections, and hence variable loading (I’m guessing now), the ECU injector drive outputs would shut down or get confused; and have to be ‘rebooted’ by cycling the ignition off and on again. Whereupon it would immediately be ok, until the next time the connections inside the plenum chamber went intermittent again.
Richard Smith at Peninsula sent my ECU off to have it checked by Mark Adams, who could find no fault with the unit itself.
If all else fails, I still think it may be worth you having these connections checked, I went down the exchange ECU, coil, ignition amp module, stepper motor switch etc. route and NOTHING worked long-term, except the injector drive connections.
Keep us posted....
Yup, your symptoms are exactly the same as I used to get.
Mine varied from a slight fluttering misfire, through coughing & spluttering to it completely dying. I had to coast to the side of the road a number of times. Mostly, it would restart straight away on the key, once or twice I had to wait 10 or 20 mins before it would go again.
When yours does it, is there a ‘rotten egg’ smell from the cats? Mine produced it when, because of the poor connections, one injector bank would shut down until I cycled the power.
I think sometimes because of the poor connections, and hence variable loading (I’m guessing now), the ECU injector drive outputs would shut down or get confused; and have to be ‘rebooted’ by cycling the ignition off and on again. Whereupon it would immediately be ok, until the next time the connections inside the plenum chamber went intermittent again.
Richard Smith at Peninsula sent my ECU off to have it checked by Mark Adams, who could find no fault with the unit itself.
If all else fails, I still think it may be worth you having these connections checked, I went down the exchange ECU, coil, ignition amp module, stepper motor switch etc. route and NOTHING worked long-term, except the injector drive connections.
Keep us posted....
I've had generally unpleasant behaviour involving random loss of power and intermittant failure to start or to keep running, caused by a dodgy earth to the ECU. I've also had intermittant power loss from a worn throttle pot (although this usually only happens at one position e.g. cruise, flat out or idle). I also had a very frustrating period last year where the engine would cut out after 15-20 minutes caused by a knackered fuel pump relay which overheated, just to complicate things I also had a loose connection in the fuel pump relay socket and a badly corroded inertial cut-off which tripped randomly. Nowadays if I have any doubts about the fuel system the first thing I do is run a fused 12v feed direct from the battery to the pump, if the problem persists you can eliminate an awful lot of possibilities.
and in an effort to sort an intermittent misfire, which actually resulted in the engine 'strangling' and dying after 10 - 20 seconds the other day, twice, I've just replaced the original fuel pump fuse 'holder'. I say 'holder' because this was in fact two female spade connectors - a loose fit at best on the blade fuse which hangs loose with the fuel pump ecu. I fitted a proper fuse holder, and so far fingers crossed, all OK. I replaced the fuel pump relay too as this may have been damaged by the contacts bouncing due to the dodgy f/p fuse.
Dodgy fuel pump fuse seems to be quite common - I've heard of several people diagnosing this when they noticed sparking in the footwell! Were the spade connectors TVR? Or had someone been hacking my loom around?
Dodgy fuel pump fuse seems to be quite common - I've heard of several people diagnosing this when they noticed sparking in the footwell! Were the spade connectors TVR? Or had someone been hacking my loom around?
Hello CLIVEK
i have the same kind of symtoms as mentioned on a 95-96 griff , just looking for the connections you mentioned but can't seem to see them, all the injector wires on mine disappear into some platic tubing which runs next to the rocker covers on the inside of the engine, do i need to cut open the tubing to expose these connections?
thanks for any advice
i have the same kind of symtoms as mentioned on a 95-96 griff , just looking for the connections you mentioned but can't seem to see them, all the injector wires on mine disappear into some platic tubing which runs next to the rocker covers on the inside of the engine, do i need to cut open the tubing to expose these connections?
thanks for any advice
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