B6ECS B6ES or B7ECS
Discussion
My engine is somewhat modified and I am suffering with fouled plugs. Have eliminated coil packs and leads so next step is to try hotter plugs, normally I use the standard B7ECS. It seems (according to the local NGK agent) that B6ECS does not exist which may be incorrect as I can find it discussed on various forums.
Looking at the NGK codes ECS rather than ES refers to a low angle ground electrode. I have obviously used the B7ES before at some point in the past because I seem to have some used ones, the difference between them looks to be fairly subtle.
The question is :-
Does the B6CES actually exist and if not will I be OK running a B6ES
Looking at the NGK codes ECS rather than ES refers to a low angle ground electrode. I have obviously used the B7ES before at some point in the past because I seem to have some used ones, the difference between them looks to be fairly subtle.
The question is :-
Does the B6CES actually exist and if not will I be OK running a B6ES
Assuming your mods are intended to make the engine perform at a higher BMEP by increasing combustion pressure by whatever means, why not address whatever is the cause of the fouling rather than mask it by going to softer plugs? Sounds like it's burning oil, running well rich, or (with respect) you're not driving it hard enough...
NGK ECS series plugs have an earth electrode that is intended to be more mechanically tolerant of detonation/pre-ignition; in practice, if you're not running silly CR or ign advance, or forced induction, normal ES, EPS or Iridium equivalents should be just fine.
B7ECS is the usual TVR v8 recommendation and works well but, frustratingly, is not available as a resistive variant (useful for aftermarket ECU instalations), hence BR8ECS being an option for higher states of tune (obviously colder, but not an issue if the car is driven as you'd expect)
NGK ECS series plugs have an earth electrode that is intended to be more mechanically tolerant of detonation/pre-ignition; in practice, if you're not running silly CR or ign advance, or forced induction, normal ES, EPS or Iridium equivalents should be just fine.
B7ECS is the usual TVR v8 recommendation and works well but, frustratingly, is not available as a resistive variant (useful for aftermarket ECU instalations), hence BR8ECS being an option for higher states of tune (obviously colder, but not an issue if the car is driven as you'd expect)
roseytvr said:
Bp7es recommended to me for my 500 by v8d. Apparently slightly longer plug gets spark further in and help prevents fouling. I've had no problems with them.
Hth
Same here.I ran BP7ES all the time with my last griff which was tuned to 345/354bhp with no issues at all.The protruded nose is deliberately designed to keep clean rather than foul up.Never liked the B7ECS as they were more prone to fouling due to recessed electrode,god knows why TVR chose to use them as none of the respected RV8 tuners recommend them??(probably just because they're much more expensive!Hth
)My NGK catalogue doesn't list a B6ECS by the way.
chris52 said:
What about a BR6ECS "R" being a resister plug but all the other spec match up so cant see that causing a problem and would have thought the b7ecs was a resister plug anyway.
Chris
The 'R' tells you its a resistive plug,so a B7ECS is not resistive,hence why the plug extenders on the Griff are resistive. If you use non resistive extenders then its best to run a resistive plug,ie BPR7ES or somesuch. Whatever you use make sure all cylinders have the same resistance as each other.Chris
The AJP Griff said:
The 'R' tells you its a resistive plug,so a B7ECS is not resistive,hence why the plug extenders on the Griff are resistive. If you use non resistive extenders then its best to run a resistive plug,ie BPR7ES or somesuch. Whatever you use make sure all cylinders have the same resistance as each other.
Intersting I use a B7ESC with unresisted plug extenders (from ACT) and dont have any problems with interference. Just shows you live and learn
Chris
chris52 said:
Intersting I use a B7ESC with unresisted plug extenders (from ACT) and dont have any problems with interference. Just shows you live and learn
Chris
You probably don't but it's a fair bet every TV in the street is on the fritz as you drive by Chris
Some plug leads are sufficiently resistive in themselves to suppress ignition EMI
roseytvr said:
Bp7es recommended to me for my 500 by v8d. Apparently slightly longer plug gets spark further in and help prevents fouling. I've had no problems with them.
Hth
V8D fitted BP7ES when they built my engine ,im now on Megasquirt so BPR7ES is probably the only alternative unless i start fitting different plug ends .Hth
I would like to know why TVR decided to use B7ECS with the different tip in a different position .
They are also third of the price
Edited by SILICONEKID340HP on Saturday 5th May 23:55
Edited by SILICONEKID340HP on Sunday 6th May 00:00
Pupp said:
chris52 said:
Intersting I use a B7ESC with unresisted plug extenders (from ACT) and dont have any problems with interference. Just shows you live and learn
Chris
You probably don't but it's a fair bet every TV in the street is on the fritz as you drive by Chris
Some plug leads are sufficiently resistive in themselves to suppress ignition EMI
Also its worth mentioning that I was advised by my ecu manufacturer that running some ht reaistance would benefit and extend the life of my ecu. There's no electrically sound reason for adding resistance and your engine will run fine without it, its just that it seems to be done for the indirect benefit of other things
Hi all,
just let me clear up the resistive spark plug/ lead question.
The resistance is there to suppress the electrical noise the ignition system generates. All modern cars must have resistive plugs and leads fitted to them, the IVA even checks the HT leads are resistive on kit cars and the like, before they are legal to drive on the road.
The reason us after market ECU guys insist they are fitted, is that the noise can upset the ECU due to ground spikes from the engine. No other reason what so ever.
It doesnt degrade the spark at all, in fact a wasted spark setup is much more efficient than a distributor based spark anyhow, so adding a set of resistive plugs isnt going to do anything.
Fitting resistive extenders and not resistive plugs isn't any good either, everything that has HT running through it needs to be resistive. So if your running an aftermarket ECU simply fit resistive plugs, they are no more expensive and they dont change the spark efficiency either.
thanks,
Phil
just let me clear up the resistive spark plug/ lead question.
The resistance is there to suppress the electrical noise the ignition system generates. All modern cars must have resistive plugs and leads fitted to them, the IVA even checks the HT leads are resistive on kit cars and the like, before they are legal to drive on the road.
The reason us after market ECU guys insist they are fitted, is that the noise can upset the ECU due to ground spikes from the engine. No other reason what so ever.
It doesnt degrade the spark at all, in fact a wasted spark setup is much more efficient than a distributor based spark anyhow, so adding a set of resistive plugs isnt going to do anything.
Fitting resistive extenders and not resistive plugs isn't any good either, everything that has HT running through it needs to be resistive. So if your running an aftermarket ECU simply fit resistive plugs, they are no more expensive and they dont change the spark efficiency either.
thanks,
Phil
SILICONEKID340HP said:
So am i going for BPR7ES than with the different tip.?
Phil do you know of those motorcraft leads i got off you are resistive cheers
BPR7ES is what I had fitted after the tuner discovered that I had two different types fitted in either bank. So take all advice on here by keyboard experts with a pinch of salt Phil do you know of those motorcraft leads i got off you are resistive cheers
SILICONEKID340HP said:
So am i going for BPR7ES than with the different tip.?
Phil do you know of those motorcraft leads i got off you are resistive cheers
Fit what ever V8D recommended to you, they built your engine and they are the experts, just ensure they are resistive Phil do you know of those motorcraft leads i got off you are resistive cheers
They are resistive leads, I think youd be pretty hard pressed to buy non-resitive leads these days,
Phil
daxtojeiro said:
Fitting resistive extenders and not resistive plugs isn't any good either, everything that has HT running through it needs to be resistive.....
,
Phil
Can you expand a bit please Phil? Is this more so for your ecu or for all?Is there a total number of ohms you aim for ideally? I was given the impression that increasing the number of components improved things but plugs not being resistive when leads and extenders were, wasn't 'no good' just less total resistance? I found running resistance in all 3 made the engine sound more 'fluffy' but with no detectable change in performance. ,
Phil
The 'boffin'(nice chap who's name escapes me now) at Omex who told me to run some resistance wasn't too bothered about the total amount,more so that there should be some in there.
Edited by The AJP Griff on Sunday 6th May 13:38
An electrical spark is the most basic form of radio transmitter and fitting a resistive element reduces the amount of energy radiated. If when the spark starts the current flowing in the HT cable could go instantly (which is not possible) from nothing to maximum the transmitted Radio Frequency Energy (RF) would be on every possible radio frequency from DC to light. If however the rate of change was a nice pure curve shape it would produce RF on just one frequency. A pure square wave contains infinite harmonics where a pure sine wave has no harmonics.
Resistance somewhere in the HT path from the coil to the plug gap slightly slows the rate of change of current flowing in the circuit so reduces the amount of RF energy produced. The exact amount of resistance is not really that important, obviously it has to be enough to have some effect and not enough to degrade or prevent the spark. Just one resistive element somewhere in the HT circuit should do the job. It is unlikely that Resistive cables, Resistive plugs and Resistive extenders would add up to too much resistance.
Digital electronics work things out by using lots of either on or off states, a value is either high or low but nowhere in-between. If a spike of RF interference finds its way into your ECU and momentarily alters the value of a bit of data the system could become very confused, with a radio it simply makes an annoying noise.
V8D fitted B7ECS and non resistive extenders on my engine when I collected it and others on here report B7CS, it would be interesting to know if there is any reasoning between which version to use perhaps with different levels of tune or build.
Anyhow I am going to stick in a set of B6ES and see what colour they go after a few miles.
Resistance somewhere in the HT path from the coil to the plug gap slightly slows the rate of change of current flowing in the circuit so reduces the amount of RF energy produced. The exact amount of resistance is not really that important, obviously it has to be enough to have some effect and not enough to degrade or prevent the spark. Just one resistive element somewhere in the HT circuit should do the job. It is unlikely that Resistive cables, Resistive plugs and Resistive extenders would add up to too much resistance.
Digital electronics work things out by using lots of either on or off states, a value is either high or low but nowhere in-between. If a spike of RF interference finds its way into your ECU and momentarily alters the value of a bit of data the system could become very confused, with a radio it simply makes an annoying noise.
V8D fitted B7ECS and non resistive extenders on my engine when I collected it and others on here report B7CS, it would be interesting to know if there is any reasoning between which version to use perhaps with different levels of tune or build.
Anyhow I am going to stick in a set of B6ES and see what colour they go after a few miles.
ray von said:
SILICONEKID340HP said:
So am i going for BPR7ES than with the different tip.?
Phil do you know of those motorcraft leads i got off you are resistive cheers
BPR7ES is what I had fitted after the tuner discovered that I had two different types fitted in either bank. So take all advice on here by keyboard experts with a pinch of salt Phil do you know of those motorcraft leads i got off you are resistive cheers
Simon says said:
ray von said:
SILICONEKID340HP said:
So am i going for BPR7ES than with the different tip.?
Phil do you know of those motorcraft leads i got off you are resistive cheers
BPR7ES is what I had fitted after the tuner discovered that I had two different types fitted in either bank. So take all advice on here by keyboard experts with a pinch of salt Phil do you know of those motorcraft leads i got off you are resistive cheers
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