Split Roof (Show Me Your Sealing Arrangements)

[ChimpofDarkness]

Ok don't shoot the Chimp, Grifters

I come to your world to seek your greater knowledge on all things Split Roof

I've just bought a work in progress split roof (original cut in half) & am researching what others have done to seal the centre line.

Photos of your split roof join seals would be ideal.

Thanks in advance, Dave.

[Hedgehopper]

Always pleased to be able to help the 'other side'.
Found this post on Pistonheads which may help.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[ChimpofDarkness]

Thanks Hedgehopper.

Sorry I should have said, thanks to the advanced search capabilities of Google I believe I've collected every relevant photo currently out there on Pistonheads & elsewhere.

What I'm looking for are:

1) New photos (close ups if poss)

2) People that have completed the split roof but have yet to share their sealing arrangement

3) Any constructive ideas on how the current sealing arrangements out there can be improved upon

I have my own ideas based on my research of completely unrelated applications, where two flat faces require a watertight seal.

Creating male & female profiles on each panel edge, such as a rubber lined tongue & groove arrangement are looking good to me.

If anyone can help with the above three points, I would welcome your input.

I also whole heartedly welcome ideas from people with experience of sealing two faces in other industries or applications.

Actually, when designing something new it's often in a completely unrelated application/industry where you find the ultimate solution.

[pjac67]

I split mine a couple of months back and followed the process in a thread on here.
The only difference was;

- filling the cavity with foam - used non expanding foam but it didn't do what it said on the tin (I wasn't to know you don't use the whole can ! (750ml for good measure...);
- used two layers of self adhesive neoprene tape on each join to ensure watertight seal (needed more cushioning than just one strip...).

Will post some pics at some stage (still trying to get the surplus foam out of the mohair....).

Cheers, Paul.

[ChimpofDarkness]

pjac67 said:

I split mine a couple of months back and followed the process in a thread on here.
The only difference was;

- filling the cavity with foam - used non expanding foam but it didn't do what it said on the tin (I wasn't to know you don't use the whole can ! (750ml for good measure...);
- used two layers of self adhesive neoprene tape on each join to ensure watertight seal (needed more cushioning than just one strip...).

Will post some pics at some stage (still trying to get the surplus foam out of the mohair....).

Cheers, Paul.

Many thanks Paul, I'd love to see your photos.

If you can let me know how thick your neoprene ended up being on each side of the join to get an effective seal I'd be very grateful.

It seems to be available from as thin as 3mm, to a mahoosive 25mm thick.

http://www.sealsdirect.co.uk/shopping.asp?intDepar...

Thanks again, Dave.

Edited by ChimpofDarkness on Sunday 10th February 21:26

[TVR Beaver]

when I did mine the cavity was there in places but not in others as it was stock together... I filled mine with fibre glass so it was solid and then I could screw into it for the over ctr clips

[ChimpofDarkness]

TVR Beaver said:

when I did mine the cavity was there in places but not in others as it was stock together... I filled mine with fibre glass so it was solid and then I could screw into it for the over ctr clips

Great idea, I think I'll do the same.

Cheers John

Dave.

PS. Any new detail snaps of your seal arrangement would be great.

[pjac67]

ChimpofDarkness said:

Many thanks Paul, I'd love to see your photos.

If you can let me know how thick your neoprene ended up being on each side of the join to get an effective seal I'd be very grateful.

It seems to be available from as thin as 3mm, to a mahoosive 25mm thick.

http://www.sealsdirect.co.uk/shopping.asp?intDepar...

Thanks again, Dave.

Edited by ChimpofDarkness on Sunday 10th February 21:26

My tape is a roll of flat self adhesive neoprene tape - I ordered from these guys (30mm x 1.6mm 10 mtrs) although in hindsight would go for slightly thicker (19mm x 4mm x 10mtrs) easily cut to shape with a Stanley or scissors:

http://www.ramgaskets.com/foam-tapes/neoprene-tape...

[ChimpofDarkness]

pjac67 said:

My tape is a roll of flat self adhesive neoprene tape - I ordered from these guys (30mm x 1.6mm 10 mtrs) although in hindsight would go for slightly thicker (19mm x 4mm x 10mtrs) easily cut to shape with a Stanley or scissors:

http://www.ramgaskets.com/foam-tapes/neoprene-tape...

Excellent Paul,

It seems Ramgaskets are significantly cheaper than Seals Direct.

I've just purchased these catches which look like they should work well.



And I'm considering these locating tongues too.

[TVR Beaver]

Dave... Have you cut it in half yet?... I'm not sure you'll get those tongues in.. it's only thin. Thats why I used a pin and ali guide.

Look on the post above last page...

[SteveSPG]

i cut mine last year.

filled the voids with glass fibre, and embedded a couple of brass alignment dowels.

the inner and outer skins on mine touch, the only void was a small section at the front and rear. into which the dowels went

trimmer tool the roof material over the top of the roof, then down the "sealing face" thats it, no neoprene, no other seal, no catches. just the hood halves aligned with the dowels.

was out yesterday in v heavy rain is shropshire....bone dry,

i was going to order catches, but never did in the end...

[ChimpofDarkness]

TVR Beaver said:

Dave... Have you cut it in half yet?... I'm not sure you'll get those tongues in.. it's only thin. Thats why I used a pin and ali guide.

Look on the post above last page...

Hi John,

The roof I bought was already cut by a Griff owner, the mohair has been stripped off & a rather wide central support lip glassed in, I'll probably reduce the width of this.

It is by the vendors own omission a "work in progress", but for £100 I'd thought I'd take a punt as a complete panel can cost anything from £250 - £350 & I'd only have to chop it anyway.

The nice thing is I'm still left with my original one piece panel intact, so there's no risk if I end up unhappy with the end result.

I have just purchased one locating tongue that I think should just fit in the widest void at the leading edge of the roof.

At the widest point on the trailing edge (which is much smaller) I'll simply use a nylon fluted dowel.



I also plan to experiment with creating a stepped & offset profile seal using different sizes of neoprene tape.

When I'm happy with this I'll use proper neoprene cement to make it permanent, rather than rely on the self adhesive stuff as when I've used it before the performance of the self adhesive can be a bit disappointing.

[TVR Beaver]

Sounds good.. let's have some pic's

I also bought a second hand one to do mine (£90 for the top and a spare wheel as i remember)

On the seal, i just have stick on closed cell foam and it works fine.. it only ever sees compression so stays where it is...

The over ctr catches are not required but I fit mine so I could fit the roof in one go... It just goes on as a one piece unit just like the original..

[ChimpofDarkness]

TVR Beaver said:

Sounds good.. let's have some pic's

I also bought a second hand one to do mine (£90 for the top and a spare wheel as i remember)

On the seal, i just have stick on closed cell foam and it works fine.. it only ever sees compression so stays where it is...

The over ctr catches are not required but I fit mine so I could fit the roof in one go... It just goes on as a one piece unit just like the original..

Frustratingly ThunbSnap is down so I can't upload any snaps right now

I'll post a couple of images of my ideas as soon as Thumbsnap is back up.

[Mellow Yellow]

When I bought my Griff it had a DIY split roof, the previous owner had used a T shaped plastic beading strip to seal the gap, with the top of the T showing on the outside (looked a bit nasty IMHO). At Le Mans 2011, the beading came away leaving about a 2mm gap and despite being parked outside in wet weather and driven back in heavy rain, there was no water intrusion. The gap is at the highest point, there's just no tendancy for water to flow into it. Unless the car is stored outside I don't think you need to worry massively about getting a perfect seal. I've since had the roof re-covered with a foam seal along the gap beneath the mohair, looks much better. It takes quite a lot of fiddling about (and helps to have two people) to get it to seal well, usually I just chuck it in, in which case there's a small gap towards the centre of the roof (it has no supporting lip), you can see daylight from inside but can't tell from outside, it never lets in water. Like yourself, I've also bought a complete roof panel which I use for the Winter.

One thing I have noticed is that when the split roof is fitted, the tension it's under means the gap is slightly wider at the centre than at the front/rear edges, I'd suggest and extra 1-1.5mm of padding in the centre 1/3.

[ChimpofDarkness]

Thanks for everyone's ideas, experiences & input so far.

It's interesting to read that a lot of you are running a split roof with little or no sealing at the join.

Here was my idea for the seal (apologies for the amateurish drawing BTW):





Perhaps I'm over thinking the problem

[SteveSPG]

if i was going to do anything, id stick a 2mm single piece of neoprene along one side.


on my car, the inner and outer skin measure about 15mm across, so there really isnt much room to do anything much more complex

.i did make a piece of ali, shaped to the interior contour, that i was going to adhere to one half, but never did....decided it would likely be the thing that caught the paintwork at some point.

[ChimpofDarkness]

Thanks Steve,

I like this blue sky thinking shop we've got going on here

I've also been chewing over a run of very small dia fibreglass rod to create a small lip.

You can buy this material for fishing rod repairs & modelling, obviously it's flexible enough to follow the slight curvature if the roof panel which could make it ideal.

Bonded to one panel edge with flat neoprene on the other, it should promote a really good seal under compression from my closing catches.

Any how, best I get on with it as I've got more ideas than actions right now & my imminent LPG conversion is looming on the horizon

Well at least I was able to locate a split roof at reasonable cost without taking the sword to my original.

Thanks again for everybody's input, keep the ideas coming chaps

Dave.


Edit: Or better still how about some 9mm rubber 'O' Ring cord bonded in on one side to form a lip, with the mohair roofing material laid over it.

Then compressible neoprene on the flat closing face of the other panel.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BLACK-NITRILE-RUBBER-O-R...

Edited by ChimpofDarkness on Tuesday 12th February 19:14

[TimJM]

SteveSPG said:

...
was out yesterday in v heavy rain is shropshire....bone dry,

Slightly off topic but, I just checked your profile when you mentioned Shropshire (I'm Newport based) and I am sure it was your Griff at Sportmotive while I had a new rack fitted to mine late Nov last year. Looked very nice and I am glad to hear it is up and running now. Hope to see you around Shropshire one day to have a closer look.

[TimJM]

Back on topic now...

I had a good talk to a guy at the Growl last year (Bob) that had a really smart split roof solution. The roof had an aluminium bracket (that also doubled as a handle) inside the roof which operated to “construct” the roof back into a solid piece before fitting. Imagine your split roof with a hinged bar attached to either side on the inside lip. It sounds un-aesthetic I know but because it was well made it looked fine. The roof was never separated though, it just folded in half to go easily into the boot.
He was parked next to MPoxon I think in a blue griff.