Race Logic TC Kit
Discussion
Had it on the 520SE for years. Review on www.tvrbooks.co.uk in the sprint section I think. Quite a bit of engineering work to fit though.
Steve
Steve
You might want to have a chat with Richard Thorpe at RT Racing, to get the opposing point of view, too. He told me he has fitted them, but dislikes the system.
I was considering fitting the Racelogic Traction Control System to my Griff, but Richard persuaded me otherwise. His basic argument is that it is too slow-witted in its responses,since it relies on cutting the engine fuelling, and so can cause as many problems as it solves. He reckoned that anyone experienced in high-powered RWD cars can correct a slide more quickly and effectively than the Racelogic system can.
Whilst I have no experience of TCS on a RWD car, I must admit that the system fitted to my front wheel drive company tin-top is a bloody liability. For example, try the standard FWD technique of sharply lifting of the accelerator entering a bend, to provoke oversteer, then rapidly going back on the throttle to 'pull through' the slide, and the TCS will often intervene and mess things up by killing the power (for a surprisingly long time - it feels like 2 or 3 seconds). Perfectly capable of causing a serious accident, IMHO, if an experienced driver reacts to control the car and the TCS decides it knows best...
On the other hand, if all else fails, at least you can switch it off!
I was considering fitting the Racelogic Traction Control System to my Griff, but Richard persuaded me otherwise. His basic argument is that it is too slow-witted in its responses,since it relies on cutting the engine fuelling, and so can cause as many problems as it solves. He reckoned that anyone experienced in high-powered RWD cars can correct a slide more quickly and effectively than the Racelogic system can.
Whilst I have no experience of TCS on a RWD car, I must admit that the system fitted to my front wheel drive company tin-top is a bloody liability. For example, try the standard FWD technique of sharply lifting of the accelerator entering a bend, to provoke oversteer, then rapidly going back on the throttle to 'pull through' the slide, and the TCS will often intervene and mess things up by killing the power (for a surprisingly long time - it feels like 2 or 3 seconds). Perfectly capable of causing a serious accident, IMHO, if an experienced driver reacts to control the car and the TCS decides it knows best...
On the other hand, if all else fails, at least you can switch it off!
I would be interested to see if the guy who doesn't reckon it's any good has actually driven a car with it on... The reaction time of the RC TC system is 1 millisecond, the reaction time of a driver (F1 level) is around 400 milliseconds, that's why they use fuel cut TC systems at the top level of motorsport. Of course, the engine takes longer than 1ms to respond, but it's a damn sight faster to reposnd to a fuel cut then if you had backed off the throttle...
The Racelogic TC system is a race bred system, and works as fast as possible, and aims to maximise acceleration, you cannot compare it with a standard road car spec system, they are like chalk and cheese.
If the car does not have ABS then yes, they do take a lot of fitting, as you have to retro-fit ABS style sensors, but if you have ever driven a powerful rear wheel drive car with it fitted, the you could not fail to be impressed, trust me.
The Racelogic TC system is a race bred system, and works as fast as possible, and aims to maximise acceleration, you cannot compare it with a standard road car spec system, they are like chalk and cheese.
If the car does not have ABS then yes, they do take a lot of fitting, as you have to retro-fit ABS style sensors, but if you have ever driven a powerful rear wheel drive car with it fitted, the you could not fail to be impressed, trust me.
With due respect to Richard, I think he's wrong. The Race Logic system reacts *far* faster than any mere human. I think there are three potential issues.
Firstly, purists will prefer to control the car themselves and there's no point fitting it just to leave it turned off.
Secondly, to get it working really well it needs to be set up to suit the car, and this is quite a complicated process. Obviously if you had RaceLogic fit it for you then this wouldn't be an issue.
Thirdly, the TC system is not foolproof, for example if the wheel sensors are not fitted correctly then it can behave erratically. If you don't *need* traction control, then the benefits may not outweigh the time, money and extra complexity of fitting it.
I don't reckon I need it because with less than 300 bhp per ton I don't have enough power to be a real liability, and I am confident of my ability to control the car. But if my TVR had come with it I would keep it, and have it turned on for gentle pottering.
Firstly, purists will prefer to control the car themselves and there's no point fitting it just to leave it turned off.
Secondly, to get it working really well it needs to be set up to suit the car, and this is quite a complicated process. Obviously if you had RaceLogic fit it for you then this wouldn't be an issue.
Thirdly, the TC system is not foolproof, for example if the wheel sensors are not fitted correctly then it can behave erratically. If you don't *need* traction control, then the benefits may not outweigh the time, money and extra complexity of fitting it.
I don't reckon I need it because with less than 300 bhp per ton I don't have enough power to be a real liability, and I am confident of my ability to control the car. But if my TVR had come with it I would keep it, and have it turned on for gentle pottering.
Just to endorse what Julian and the team at Racelogic say. I went back to the factory this week to have my system checked out and software upgraded & tweeked.
They made me very welcome and did a great job.
It is now fantastic and the only real way of keeping my Twin Turbo Griff on the road!
I have the pro system with full throtle shift & launch control which keeps the turbos spinning for maximum boost. It is also good to look at the graphs on the laptop after a power run to see what has been happening.
They made me very welcome and did a great job.
It is now fantastic and the only real way of keeping my Twin Turbo Griff on the road!
I have the pro system with full throtle shift & launch control which keeps the turbos spinning for maximum boost. It is also good to look at the graphs on the laptop after a power run to see what has been happening.
I am a rear wheel drive nut. I have three big power rear wheel drive cars in my stable, there’s nothing that beats them in my book for the pleasure of driving. I have RLTC on two of them, the third has a factory system on which is rubbish.
I love driving sideways, but strangely I get as much fun driving with the TC system on, but turned to +10% slip which allows about 25% slip before total intervention. This allows me to slide the car and drive it on the throttle, but if it all gets out of hand, there’s a gentle safety net which stops an expensive accident.
The system allows you to find and understand the limits of the handling very easily, which means you have a greater appreciation of how to drive when the system is switched off. It has taught me a lot about driving a powerful rear wheel drive car, without writing off a number of them!
I love driving sideways, but strangely I get as much fun driving with the TC system on, but turned to +10% slip which allows about 25% slip before total intervention. This allows me to slide the car and drive it on the throttle, but if it all gets out of hand, there’s a gentle safety net which stops an expensive accident.
The system allows you to find and understand the limits of the handling very easily, which means you have a greater appreciation of how to drive when the system is switched off. It has taught me a lot about driving a powerful rear wheel drive car, without writing off a number of them!
A few years ago I fitted racelogic TC to Faisal Khan's Cerbie which went out to san francisco .. was a nightmare to install and set up, horrible DOS based interface that was anything but user friendly. In the end I gave up and took it to Racelogic for set-up, I admitted defeat and the people who play with these things to fine tune them must have more time than me at any rate.
However .. once installed and set up (which involved racing around the roundabouts outside the racelogic building unti you eventually spin the car, then back off a bit on the fiddling and that's your maximum angle of attack dialled in so to speak) .. then it was really really good.
Like they say .. it's a safety net if *you* get it wrong and doesn't interfere with playing at all .. makes it far safer in fact
If anyone were contemplating getting it fitted I would say go for it, the benefits far outweigh anything else.
If yuo're interested in more power aswell as TC then the new Emerald ECU upgrade will hopefully be out in January .. with traction control enabled and should cost about the same as the RL system .. don't know if it'll be as sophisticated or not, but how fast does it need to be to be better than a driver .. I'm guessing not that fast!!
However .. once installed and set up (which involved racing around the roundabouts outside the racelogic building unti you eventually spin the car, then back off a bit on the fiddling and that's your maximum angle of attack dialled in so to speak) .. then it was really really good.
Like they say .. it's a safety net if *you* get it wrong and doesn't interfere with playing at all .. makes it far safer in fact
If anyone were contemplating getting it fitted I would say go for it, the benefits far outweigh anything else.
If yuo're interested in more power aswell as TC then the new Emerald ECU upgrade will hopefully be out in January .. with traction control enabled and should cost about the same as the RL system .. don't know if it'll be as sophisticated or not, but how fast does it need to be to be better than a driver .. I'm guessing not that fast!!
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