It's looking like it's finally time to build a new engine.
Discussion
I've been struggling for a couple of years with a hot starting problem on my Griff. All the electrical solutions to it have been tried and every component swapped & tested and none of them are at fault. So the inescapable conclusion is that after my Griff has done nearly 150,000 miles I need to get a bottom end rebuild done because there is a damn good chance one of the bearings is binding up the crank when the engine is hot. (This is of course in addition to all the other little jobs I need to do...)
In case you are the one TVR owner in the known universe I haven't talked to about the hot start problem, it works (or rather doesn't work) something like this:
I take my daughter to school in "The noisy black car" because it's a nice day and she asked really nicely and she's clearly bored with the XKR). The car is just about up to temperature when I get there.
I take her in to class (She's 5, so I'm still allowed to be seen with her without embarrassing her too much) This takes 5 minutes or so.
I then try to restart the car, and it pretends the battery is flat - really slow cranking with an enormous voltage droop on the battery. I usually carry a jump start pack, so I employ it to double the crank speed to all of 20 RPM, letting smoke out of the wires on one memorable occasion - so lots of amps going somewhere!
I phone for re-enforcements in the shape of Nic and a Range Rover. This takes an hour or so, and by the time she's arrived, the TVR has cooled down and recovered from its sulk sufficiently to allow me to continue going to work. Nic grumbles about wasted journeys. I grumble about TVRs.
The car will restart when hot provided it is done within a few seconds of stopping. It always starts nicely from cold and coldish. Let's leave suggesting electrical things I might have missed off the thread please - I've probably tried at least two of them and more importantly, where were you last year when I asked the first time?
I of course have the makings of a plan.
1. Buy a Lotus Elise. (Summer car for Nic - it's a long story with a couple of sad bits in
)
2. Finish the dash and EPAS tinkering
3. Take the engine apart to find what's causing my gremlin
4. Put it back together without spending too much money. (Should be easy - it all got used up in step 1, unless I don't get steps 2 and 3 finished by October 2014...)
So now the question of what do I do to the engine while its apart? There's a huge selection of parts and offerings out there, but few promise more than I have now, and most promise a lot less so my favoured tactic is to speak to a couple of the usual suspects and then rebuild to something along the lines of a standard 5 litre TVR engine.
I want to maintain a 5 litre N/A engine. 2 reasons - The budget to do justice to forced induction is not available for this project and I want to maintain some semblance of originality!
I'll be assembling the engine (not built a v8 bottom end before and have always wanted to), but specialists will be called upon when necessary.
Minimum activity plan is to replace all the bearing shells, core plugs, piston rings etc assuming inspection of the major parts shows no problems. I don't anticipate head issues and I'm not looking to do significant things to them this time.
I'm happy enough with the current 320bhp & 350ftlbs, but it wouldn't be hard to persuade me to look at a few tweaks to get to 350bhp/350ftlbs, but not at vast cost.
So what would be worth doing to a RV8 bottom end while it's apart? Cross bolts? (The bosses are there but not drilled) Internal balancing? (only if I decide I need more RPM?) More/less static compression when I put it back together? (11:1 sounds good, because it's one more than 10) Are top hat liners worth putting in as a precaution since it's all apart and it's at least an 19 year old high mileage block? Lots of questions and research to do...
In case you are the one TVR owner in the known universe I haven't talked to about the hot start problem, it works (or rather doesn't work) something like this:
I take my daughter to school in "The noisy black car" because it's a nice day and she asked really nicely and she's clearly bored with the XKR). The car is just about up to temperature when I get there.
I take her in to class (She's 5, so I'm still allowed to be seen with her without embarrassing her too much) This takes 5 minutes or so.
I then try to restart the car, and it pretends the battery is flat - really slow cranking with an enormous voltage droop on the battery. I usually carry a jump start pack, so I employ it to double the crank speed to all of 20 RPM, letting smoke out of the wires on one memorable occasion - so lots of amps going somewhere!
I phone for re-enforcements in the shape of Nic and a Range Rover. This takes an hour or so, and by the time she's arrived, the TVR has cooled down and recovered from its sulk sufficiently to allow me to continue going to work. Nic grumbles about wasted journeys. I grumble about TVRs.
The car will restart when hot provided it is done within a few seconds of stopping. It always starts nicely from cold and coldish. Let's leave suggesting electrical things I might have missed off the thread please - I've probably tried at least two of them and more importantly, where were you last year when I asked the first time?
I of course have the makings of a plan.
1. Buy a Lotus Elise. (Summer car for Nic - it's a long story with a couple of sad bits in
)2. Finish the dash and EPAS tinkering
3. Take the engine apart to find what's causing my gremlin
4. Put it back together without spending too much money. (Should be easy - it all got used up in step 1, unless I don't get steps 2 and 3 finished by October 2014...)
So now the question of what do I do to the engine while its apart? There's a huge selection of parts and offerings out there, but few promise more than I have now, and most promise a lot less so my favoured tactic is to speak to a couple of the usual suspects and then rebuild to something along the lines of a standard 5 litre TVR engine.
I want to maintain a 5 litre N/A engine. 2 reasons - The budget to do justice to forced induction is not available for this project and I want to maintain some semblance of originality!
I'll be assembling the engine (not built a v8 bottom end before and have always wanted to), but specialists will be called upon when necessary.
Minimum activity plan is to replace all the bearing shells, core plugs, piston rings etc assuming inspection of the major parts shows no problems. I don't anticipate head issues and I'm not looking to do significant things to them this time.
I'm happy enough with the current 320bhp & 350ftlbs, but it wouldn't be hard to persuade me to look at a few tweaks to get to 350bhp/350ftlbs, but not at vast cost.
So what would be worth doing to a RV8 bottom end while it's apart? Cross bolts? (The bosses are there but not drilled) Internal balancing? (only if I decide I need more RPM?) More/less static compression when I put it back together? (11:1 sounds good, because it's one more than 10) Are top hat liners worth putting in as a precaution since it's all apart and it's at least an 19 year old high mileage block? Lots of questions and research to do...
dnb said:
I want to maintain a 5 litre N/A engine. I want to maintain some semblance of originality!
I'll be assembling the engine (not built a v8 bottom end before and have always wanted to), but specialists will be called upon when necessary.
Minimum activity plan is to replace all the bearing shells, core plugs, piston rings etc assuming inspection of the major parts shows no problems. I don't anticipate head issues and I'm not looking to do significant things to them this time.
I'm happy enough with the current 320bhp & 350ftlbs, but it wouldn't be hard to persuade me to look at a few tweaks to get to 350bhp/350ftlbs, but not at vast cost.
So what would be worth doing to a RV8 bottom end while it's apart? Cross bolts? (The bosses are there but not drilled) Internal balancing? (only if I decide I need more RPM?) More/less static compression when I put it back together? (11:1 sounds good, because it's one more than 10) Are top hat liners worth putting in as a precaution since it's all apart and it's at least an 19 year old high mileage block? Lots of questions and research to do...
Well I'll be very interested to know what you come up with because I am in the same position. I want to keep the 5 litre, normal induction and do as much of the rebuild myself as possible but happy to pay for specialist tweeks.I'll be assembling the engine (not built a v8 bottom end before and have always wanted to), but specialists will be called upon when necessary.
Minimum activity plan is to replace all the bearing shells, core plugs, piston rings etc assuming inspection of the major parts shows no problems. I don't anticipate head issues and I'm not looking to do significant things to them this time.
I'm happy enough with the current 320bhp & 350ftlbs, but it wouldn't be hard to persuade me to look at a few tweaks to get to 350bhp/350ftlbs, but not at vast cost.
So what would be worth doing to a RV8 bottom end while it's apart? Cross bolts? (The bosses are there but not drilled) Internal balancing? (only if I decide I need more RPM?) More/less static compression when I put it back together? (11:1 sounds good, because it's one more than 10) Are top hat liners worth putting in as a precaution since it's all apart and it's at least an 19 year old high mileage block? Lots of questions and research to do...
Although I agree that you hot starting doesn't sound like the bottom end, have you considered that you starter motor might be somewhat f
d......?once I`ve finished steve j `s decat today I`ll finish the last bits on the v6 lump so you can have your engine stand back very soon mate.
you might find a few interesting answers to your post on the chim forum, as these lads seem to have taken over on the engine development side nowadays, quite a few are running 350 plus nowadays I think, unless they are all monkeys telling porkies
you might find a few interesting answers to your post on the chim forum, as these lads seem to have taken over on the engine development side nowadays, quite a few are running 350 plus nowadays I think, unless they are all monkeys telling porkies
mine has issues with hot start, engine rebuild did nothing to fix that....
I like Spends idea of to much advance, but I don't think I can adjust this anymore due to increase plenum to 72mm and in the process the advance pipe has been removed, and everything wound to max (so I've been told)....
I'll get someone with more knowledge to look at it
I like Spends idea of to much advance, but I don't think I can adjust this anymore due to increase plenum to 72mm and in the process the advance pipe has been removed, and everything wound to max (so I've been told)....
I'll get someone with more knowledge to look at it
If you are going to rebuild the engine along with the usual refresh tasks I would look at getting the engine internally balanced, the 5.0ltrs are externally balanced out of the factory and it has been known for the balance weights to come off over time which is a cause for crank failure. It might also be worth looking at top hat liners as well.
Thanks guys. Been thete and done it all with 2 different starter motors both of which will start my P38. The griff has had all new wiring for the starter in the last year so I'm not replacing that again. Same for the battery. When cranking below about 100 rpm the ECU will not synchronise so no sparks. So test done.
I suppose the chassis itself could have developed a high resistance weld. Better swap this before looking at the engine?
I suppose the chassis itself could have developed a high resistance weld. Better swap this before looking at the engine?
dnb said:
Thanks guys. Been thete and done it all with 2 different starter motors both of which will start my P38. The griff has had all new wiring for the starter in the last year so I'm not replacing that again. Same for the battery. When cranking below about 100 rpm the ECU will not synchronise so no sparks. So test done.
I suppose the chassis itself could have developed a high resistance weld. Better swap this before looking at the engine?
What about a new earth strap from starter motor straight to battery. I suppose the chassis itself could have developed a high resistance weld. Better swap this before looking at the engine?
If I were rebuilding it.......I'd just concentrate on doing the most careful meticulous build I could....
All new bearings, rings and gaskets obviously.... New cam, and the just get everything as clean as possible, and make sure every single spec was well within tolerance.....
St back and enjoy for another 19 years
All new bearings, rings and gaskets obviously.... New cam, and the just get everything as clean as possible, and make sure every single spec was well within tolerance.....
St back and enjoy for another 19 years
Quinny said:
If I were rebuilding it.......I'd just concentrate on doing the most careful meticulous build I could....
All new bearings, rings and gaskets obviously.... New cam, and the just get everything as clean as possible, and make sure every single spec was well within tolerance.....
St back and enjoy for another 19 years
Where is that article you wrote about your old Griff engine rebuild Quinny, I seem to remember seeing it on the Griffith Pages? That was a great article.All new bearings, rings and gaskets obviously.... New cam, and the just get everything as clean as possible, and make sure every single spec was well within tolerance.....
St back and enjoy for another 19 years
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