Fuel pump replacement
Discussion
Fuel pump is starting to seize up, time to find a replacement. Want to plan ahead for the engine to eventually be upgraded 300+ BHP. (It's a 500)
Done a lot of searching and there a lot of old posts, and it's a bit confusing. Would be great to hear any recommendations. I've found the following so far;
1 - stay with original spec Bosch 0580464070
2 - change to Bosch 044's, but it turns out that they really need pressure feeding from the original pump. So needs 2 pumps.
3 - A higher flowing replacement from DT, anybody used this? http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/fuel-pump...
4 - anything else?
Also, has anyone put in a pre-filter from the tank to the pump before?
Done a lot of searching and there a lot of old posts, and it's a bit confusing. Would be great to hear any recommendations. I've found the following so far;
1 - stay with original spec Bosch 0580464070
2 - change to Bosch 044's, but it turns out that they really need pressure feeding from the original pump. So needs 2 pumps.
3 - A higher flowing replacement from DT, anybody used this? http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/fuel-pump...
4 - anything else?
Also, has anyone put in a pre-filter from the tank to the pump before?
The standard pump is good for well over 300hp but if you must have an upgrade fit a Cerbera pump, same as fitted to late model Porsche 928s and many other mid 90's cars.
Just make sure it's a genuine one as there's loads of fakes out there, a genuine Bosch pump will say made in the Czech Republic, ironically the fakes say Made in Germany.
This sounds counter intuitive, but trust me the real Bosch ones were/are made the Czech Republic, the fakes may say made in Germany but they are actually made in Turkey.
There is absolutely no point in fitting a 044 unless you're planning 500hp plus, and remember your fuel pressure regulator controls the fuel pressure not the pump so with a standard FPR in place the rail will still always see 36-38 PSI no matter what pump you fit (even the loony 044).
If you do choose to upgrade the pump only the volume will change, or should I say the ability for the pump to shift a greater volume, a lot of that is governed by the fuel pipe diameter.
If you're hoping for more pressure you'll need a higher rated or adjustable fuel pressure regulator, and as soon as you fit one of those you'll completely fek your fueling up and the car will almost certainly run like a dog.
Higher pressures & more fuel do not mean a faster car, actually its often the very opposite.
Concentrate on ensuring your new standard pump is receiving sufficient amps. The TVR wiring to the pump is woefully inadequate and very prone to corrosion so the best fuel pump mod you can do actually has nothing to do with the pump itself.
Improve the wiring, then fit a new standard pump if it's genuinely on its last legs, the standard Griffith/Chimaera pump is perfectly up to the job as long as it sees enough volts and receives enough amps.
Just make sure it's a genuine one as there's loads of fakes out there, a genuine Bosch pump will say made in the Czech Republic, ironically the fakes say Made in Germany.
This sounds counter intuitive, but trust me the real Bosch ones were/are made the Czech Republic, the fakes may say made in Germany but they are actually made in Turkey.
There is absolutely no point in fitting a 044 unless you're planning 500hp plus, and remember your fuel pressure regulator controls the fuel pressure not the pump so with a standard FPR in place the rail will still always see 36-38 PSI no matter what pump you fit (even the loony 044).
If you do choose to upgrade the pump only the volume will change, or should I say the ability for the pump to shift a greater volume, a lot of that is governed by the fuel pipe diameter.
If you're hoping for more pressure you'll need a higher rated or adjustable fuel pressure regulator, and as soon as you fit one of those you'll completely fek your fueling up and the car will almost certainly run like a dog.
Higher pressures & more fuel do not mean a faster car, actually its often the very opposite.
Concentrate on ensuring your new standard pump is receiving sufficient amps. The TVR wiring to the pump is woefully inadequate and very prone to corrosion so the best fuel pump mod you can do actually has nothing to do with the pump itself.
Improve the wiring, then fit a new standard pump if it's genuinely on its last legs, the standard Griffith/Chimaera pump is perfectly up to the job as long as it sees enough volts and receives enough amps.
phazed said:
Mine puts out 380 bhp on the original pump and regulator controlled by MS and the fuelling is spot on.
I would stay with an original tried and trusted pump.
Happy New Year Peter I would stay with an original tried and trusted pump.
What injectors do you run?
I'm on 250cc Vectra injectors which are good for 320hp at 80% duty cycle, but I'm planning on fitting a blower which will bring 'Ol Gasbag' close to your mighty 380 ponies & out of their safe working range.
I was thinking about these 360cc puppies?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bosch-Turbo-360-cc-injec...
A set of 8 should be good for 400 ponies at a safe 80% duty cycle, what injectors are you running mate?
Apologies to the OP, to answer your second question a pre-filter is an excellent idea, I have one and fitting one to any Chim/Griff will definitely protect the pump from tank debris.
I myself actually run the Cerbera/Porsche 928 pump but only because I have a small 4 gallon petrol tank so it's ability to act as a heat sink is greatly reduced from standard, I also fitted a fuel cooler which combined with the higher volume pump solved my "small tank = hot fuel" issues.
But I digress, as I and Phazed have both pointed out the standard fuel pump is well up to the job, the fact it's proven by Peter to support 380hp should alone be enough evidence for you.
Dave.
phazed said:
Happy New Year Dave
I'm running a set of 30lb Accell injectors.
Joolz reckons no fuelling problems with this combo at 385 horses.
Lbs!?!... You're so American Peter I'm running a set of 30lb Accell injectors.
Joolz reckons no fuelling problems with this combo at 385 horses.
Lets put that in Euro speak
With a 3 bar FPR (45 psi) I make it 30lbs/hr X 10.5 = 315cc/min (Accell actually rate them at 309cc)
Either way they are spot on for an 8 cylinder engine shoving out 385hp and running them at 80% duty cycle.
The used but reconditioned 360cc Saab ones I linked above are actually good for 440hp so a bit overkill.
Your nice brand new Accell ones are only £262.00 all in from Summit Racing (delivered to the UK with IParcel Tax pre-paid).
They are also a better (read very close to my Vectra jobies) 14 ohm impedance rather than the 12 Ohm Saab ones.
All that makes them a no-brainer choice and I can see why you went for them.
Many thanks mate
Thanks guys, that is very useful feedback. You guys are already exceeding the power I expect to chase with the original pump. It was good to hear as It's much easier to stay with the original as the fittings are all the same(!) I do wonder if the previous posts I have found are mixing the pump and injector limits up.
I also have a set of injectors from summit racing waiting to go on, bosch red tops, had them for a few years now but as you say it's a big change linked to a ecu change, which has also been in a box for a few years
Awaiting for the opportunity to pop this lot on.
I also have a set of injectors from summit racing waiting to go on, bosch red tops, had them for a few years now but as you say it's a big change linked to a ecu change, which has also been in a box for a few years
Awaiting for the opportunity to pop this lot on.gavgavgav said:
Thanks guys, that is very useful feedback. You guys are already exceeding the power I expect to chase with the original pump. It was good to hear as It's much easier to stay with the original as the fittings are all the same(!) I do wonder if the previous posts I have found are mixing the pump and injector limits up.
I also have a set of injectors from summit racing waiting to go on, bosch red tops, had them for a few years now but as you say it's a big change linked to a ecu change, which has also been in a box for a few years Awaiting for the opportunity to pop this lot on.
Crack on with that ECU Gavin, it's the best mod you'll do and opens all the exciting doors currently closed to you with the 14CUX & distributor.I also have a set of injectors from summit racing waiting to go on, bosch red tops, had them for a few years now but as you say it's a big change linked to a ecu change, which has also been in a box for a few years
Awaiting for the opportunity to pop this lot on.Best regards from the Chimp cage
SILICONEKID345HP said:
phazed said:
Mine puts out 380 bhp on the original pump and regulator controlled by MS and the fuelling is spot on.
I would stay with an original tried and trusted pump.
I thought you have 377hp
Was 384.8 but who's counting I would stay with an original tried and trusted pump.
I thought you have 377hp
Edited by SILICONEKID345HP on Monday 5th January 22:00
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