Griffith 500 cutting out
Discussion
Hi
Since 2 years now my TVR does not run properly. It cuts out occasionally - when accelerating in the low revs it feels like the car is being held back - in the high revs it runs fine. At some stage it was really bad - bleeding the cooling system helped a lot. I have since exchanged the ignition module, the leads, the coil, the ignition rotor and cap. I have adjusted the throttle pot, exchanged it, the engine temperature sensor. I still have the feeling the AFM is no good but not sure if that could have such an impact (and they are so expensive and all you get is some Chinese cr..) Shall I also look at fuel pump - but then why would it run well in the high revs.
The problem is that I live in Luxembourg and there are no specialist around. Getting tired of exchanging parts only to see no difference afterwards. Any help is much welcome.
Cheers,
Dan
Since 2 years now my TVR does not run properly. It cuts out occasionally - when accelerating in the low revs it feels like the car is being held back - in the high revs it runs fine. At some stage it was really bad - bleeding the cooling system helped a lot. I have since exchanged the ignition module, the leads, the coil, the ignition rotor and cap. I have adjusted the throttle pot, exchanged it, the engine temperature sensor. I still have the feeling the AFM is no good but not sure if that could have such an impact (and they are so expensive and all you get is some Chinese cr..) Shall I also look at fuel pump - but then why would it run well in the high revs.
The problem is that I live in Luxembourg and there are no specialist around. Getting tired of exchanging parts only to see no difference afterwards. Any help is much welcome.
Cheers,
Dan
Thanks Spikep
I tried activating the Stepper by taking it out and reconnecting it. When I put on the ignition it vibrates but does not move. Only by plugging the hole and turning on the engine I would get it to extend completely. Should it not extend by only putting on the ignition ?
How does the car feel if the AFM does not work properly. Will it accelerate uneven - mine does so and I am wondering if this might be the cause.
Cheers
Dan
I tried activating the Stepper by taking it out and reconnecting it. When I put on the ignition it vibrates but does not move. Only by plugging the hole and turning on the engine I would get it to extend completely. Should it not extend by only putting on the ignition ?
How does the car feel if the AFM does not work properly. Will it accelerate uneven - mine does so and I am wondering if this might be the cause.
Cheers
Dan
Dan considering you have few specialists around you and you've been experiencing these problems for two years,
Hoover's comment re Mbe Engine management system is a very good one, it's a one stop solution and will make your car a useable car and it will be totally reliable.
You can sell your CUX and wiring harness to re coup some of the cost and you'll save a small fortune at every service as you'll have no stepper motor, distributor and cap etc etc all gone.
I've gone with the Powers Performance Mbe install as Hoover has and I too don't look back.
The amount of old wiring that's removed alone takes away about 15 points of possible electrical gremlins.
What's the price of driving with security and reliability in such a great car as a Tvr
Mostly Tvr's are a simple car with pretty reliable parts,
Removing the wiring and old Lucus management system for something like Dom's MBE ECU will transform the cars reliability and road manners,
If your struggling to get good advice or service around you then let Powers replace the bloody lot and it will start and run perfectly every time for years to come.
If your cars a keeper and you hope to own it for many years then this becomes viable as the car will run smoother and be more economical, service bills are less as you have nothing much to replace,
Your drive train will benefit from the smooth fuel mapping that will be bespoke for your car and it will iliminate shunting at low revs,, your clutch will also last longer,,
I've done 10,000 miles in about 8 months since mines been installed and because the car sort of lean burns better and rarely over fuels even when hot my engine oil is cleaner for longer, less fuel deposits etc so it's effectively going to give my engine longer life,,
The benefits of this kind of modification and modernisation to the most important system on the car goes way behond just fantastic reliability,
Back to your issues, do you have rover gauge or an Ecu mate as they can give you plenty of information on what your sensors are saying to the Ecu.
Fault codes etc.
Speed sensor can also trigger idle problems that appear to be Stepper motor issues but it's actually being caused by spurious sensor readings.
Again the Manual that you get with Ecumate goes into this tech so it's well worth reading.
Hope you get a solution.
Hoover's comment re Mbe Engine management system is a very good one, it's a one stop solution and will make your car a useable car and it will be totally reliable.
You can sell your CUX and wiring harness to re coup some of the cost and you'll save a small fortune at every service as you'll have no stepper motor, distributor and cap etc etc all gone.
I've gone with the Powers Performance Mbe install as Hoover has and I too don't look back.
The amount of old wiring that's removed alone takes away about 15 points of possible electrical gremlins.
What's the price of driving with security and reliability in such a great car as a Tvr
Mostly Tvr's are a simple car with pretty reliable parts,
Removing the wiring and old Lucus management system for something like Dom's MBE ECU will transform the cars reliability and road manners,
If your struggling to get good advice or service around you then let Powers replace the bloody lot and it will start and run perfectly every time for years to come.
If your cars a keeper and you hope to own it for many years then this becomes viable as the car will run smoother and be more economical, service bills are less as you have nothing much to replace,
Your drive train will benefit from the smooth fuel mapping that will be bespoke for your car and it will iliminate shunting at low revs,, your clutch will also last longer,,
I've done 10,000 miles in about 8 months since mines been installed and because the car sort of lean burns better and rarely over fuels even when hot my engine oil is cleaner for longer, less fuel deposits etc so it's effectively going to give my engine longer life,,
The benefits of this kind of modification and modernisation to the most important system on the car goes way behond just fantastic reliability,
Back to your issues, do you have rover gauge or an Ecu mate as they can give you plenty of information on what your sensors are saying to the Ecu.
Fault codes etc.
Speed sensor can also trigger idle problems that appear to be Stepper motor issues but it's actually being caused by spurious sensor readings.
Again the Manual that you get with Ecumate goes into this tech so it's well worth reading.
Hope you get a solution.
If it's ok at higher revs that's when the lambdas go open loop. Lower speeds is closed loop with the lambdas controlling the mixture - if it's lumpy it could be lambdas perhaps, but you need to know what everything's doing before shelling out more money.
Mine was undriveable when I bought it - Joolz at kits and classics found the afm was at fault (no fault codes thrown up though!) and put a good used genuine afm on. The chinese knockoffs can give dodgy readings or quickly give up altogether under a hot TVR bonnet.
As already suggested have you had anything on it to read any fault codes? I've not used rovergauge but that would be the best and probably cheapest option, maybe going back to all the original components at the same time as swapping parts out hasn't worked and may have introduced a secondary fault? I have recently got an ecumate - very useful for the computer-illiterate like wot I is - but I don't think it shows you as much info as rovergauge.
I feel for you - my last Griff I had years ago wouldn't idle and it took literally months to trace the fault. If my current Griff plays up too much I'll be Emeralding it - life's too short.
Mine was undriveable when I bought it - Joolz at kits and classics found the afm was at fault (no fault codes thrown up though!) and put a good used genuine afm on. The chinese knockoffs can give dodgy readings or quickly give up altogether under a hot TVR bonnet.
As already suggested have you had anything on it to read any fault codes? I've not used rovergauge but that would be the best and probably cheapest option, maybe going back to all the original components at the same time as swapping parts out hasn't worked and may have introduced a secondary fault? I have recently got an ecumate - very useful for the computer-illiterate like wot I is - but I don't think it shows you as much info as rovergauge.
I feel for you - my last Griff I had years ago wouldn't idle and it took literally months to trace the fault. If my current Griff plays up too much I'll be Emeralding it - life's too short.
i would also recommend getting hold of rovergauge. The software is free hou just need a computer to install it on and a cable which you can order crom Blitzracing in the classifieds.
That will help you understand what is going on. Post your readings on here andim sure someone will belp you interpret the readings and help identicy the most likely problems.
That will help you understand what is going on. Post your readings on here andim sure someone will belp you interpret the readings and help identicy the most likely problems.
Thanks for your feedback and support.
I have the rover Gauge software and connected it this morning when driving to work. I reset the fault codes and even though it ran badly in low revs (below 2000 RPM) and stuttered slightly in the high revs I did not get any new faults. Are there any guidelines out there what the readings should be. MAF went up to almost 100 % when going flat out. I noticed a difference in the actual revs and the revs it was trying to achieve - not sure if abnormal.
Cheers
Dan
I have the rover Gauge software and connected it this morning when driving to work. I reset the fault codes and even though it ran badly in low revs (below 2000 RPM) and stuttered slightly in the high revs I did not get any new faults. Are there any guidelines out there what the readings should be. MAF went up to almost 100 % when going flat out. I noticed a difference in the actual revs and the revs it was trying to achieve - not sure if abnormal.
Cheers
Dan
dantvrgriff said:
Thanks for your feedback and support.
I have the rover Gauge software and connected it this morning when driving to work. I reset the fault codes and even though it ran badly in low revs (below 2000 RPM) and stuttered slightly in the high revs I did not get any new faults. Are there any guidelines out there what the readings should be. MAF went up to almost 100 % when going flat out. I noticed a difference in the actual revs and the revs it was trying to achieve - not sure if abnormal.
Cheers
Dan
The ECU wont throw fault codes that easily, something has to be really amiss like a completely missing sensor input. If the AFM is giving a wrong voltage you will see very high levels of long term lambda trim at idle (assuming you have a catalysts engine) as the ECU tries to correct it. Its worth leaving the car at idle when hot for at least 2.5 minutes to make sure the long term trim is stable. Likewise look at the short term trim- is this cycling nicely at the point the car runs rough? This is a big clue. A MAF reading of near 100% is fine flat out, but check it at idle in direct mode to make sure its in spec' (around 35% depending on engine size and idle speed). An over rich mixture due to a high AFM output at low speed can produce some very flat engine response, that clears as the RPM rises, and the AFM voltage is nearer where it should be.I have the rover Gauge software and connected it this morning when driving to work. I reset the fault codes and even though it ran badly in low revs (below 2000 RPM) and stuttered slightly in the high revs I did not get any new faults. Are there any guidelines out there what the readings should be. MAF went up to almost 100 % when going flat out. I noticed a difference in the actual revs and the revs it was trying to achieve - not sure if abnormal.
Cheers
Dan
There should not be a difference between target and actual idle speed if the stepper is doing its job and you dont have any air leaks or wrong mixture (AFM again), good ignition and the engine is mechanically sound. Also check the throttle pot reading is smooth as you depress the throttle with the ignition on. An ignition fault or timing could case the car to loose power, but RoverGauge wont pick this up, but a simple strobe test will tell you if the timing is correct and advancing as it should.
You could have an intermittent earth problem for your engine loom, I discovered some dodgy running issues when I was rebuilding a griff and completely forgot to connect the three earths at the back of the engine bay back up. Once connected, car ran like a dream. There are 2 black earths above the oil filter housing as well, and there are 3 earths at the back right as your looking at the engine, make sure they are good and sound.
J
J
ClassiChimi said:
Dan considering you have few specialists around you and you've been experiencing these problems for two years,
Hoover's comment re Mbe Engine management system is a very good one, it's a one stop solution and will make your car a useable car and it will be totally reliable.
You can sell your CUX and wiring harness to re coup some of the cost and you'll save a small fortune at every service as you'll have no stepper motor, distributor and cap etc etc all gone.
I've gone with the Powers Performance Mbe install as Hoover has and I too don't look back.
The amount of old wiring that's removed alone takes away about 15 points of possible electrical gremlins.
What's the price of driving with security and reliability in such a great car as a Tvr
Mostly Tvr's are a simple car with pretty reliable parts,
Removing the wiring and old Lucus management system for something like Dom's MBE ECU will transform the cars reliability and road manners,
If your struggling to get good advice or service around you then let Powers replace the bloody lot and it will start and run perfectly every time for years to come.
If your cars a keeper and you hope to own it for many years then this becomes viable as the car will run smoother and be more economical, service bills are less as you have nothing much to replace,
Your drive train will benefit from the smooth fuel mapping that will be bespoke for your car and it will iliminate shunting at low revs,, your clutch will also last longer,,
I've done 10,000 miles in about 8 months since mines been installed and because the car sort of lean burns better and rarely over fuels even when hot my engine oil is cleaner for longer, less fuel deposits etc so it's effectively going to give my engine longer life,,
The benefits of this kind of modification and modernisation to the most important system on the car goes way behond just fantastic reliability,
Back to your issues, do you have rover gauge or an Ecu mate as they can give you plenty of information on what your sensors are saying to the Ecu.
Fault codes etc.
Speed sensor can also trigger idle problems that appear to be Stepper motor issues but it's actually being caused by spurious sensor readings.
Again the Manual that you get with Ecumate goes into this tech so it's well worth reading.
Hope you get a solution.
Would you mind giving a ball park figure to do this EMS replacement? Hoover's comment re Mbe Engine management system is a very good one, it's a one stop solution and will make your car a useable car and it will be totally reliable.
You can sell your CUX and wiring harness to re coup some of the cost and you'll save a small fortune at every service as you'll have no stepper motor, distributor and cap etc etc all gone.
I've gone with the Powers Performance Mbe install as Hoover has and I too don't look back.
The amount of old wiring that's removed alone takes away about 15 points of possible electrical gremlins.
What's the price of driving with security and reliability in such a great car as a Tvr
Mostly Tvr's are a simple car with pretty reliable parts,
Removing the wiring and old Lucus management system for something like Dom's MBE ECU will transform the cars reliability and road manners,
If your struggling to get good advice or service around you then let Powers replace the bloody lot and it will start and run perfectly every time for years to come.
If your cars a keeper and you hope to own it for many years then this becomes viable as the car will run smoother and be more economical, service bills are less as you have nothing much to replace,
Your drive train will benefit from the smooth fuel mapping that will be bespoke for your car and it will iliminate shunting at low revs,, your clutch will also last longer,,
I've done 10,000 miles in about 8 months since mines been installed and because the car sort of lean burns better and rarely over fuels even when hot my engine oil is cleaner for longer, less fuel deposits etc so it's effectively going to give my engine longer life,,
The benefits of this kind of modification and modernisation to the most important system on the car goes way behond just fantastic reliability,
Back to your issues, do you have rover gauge or an Ecu mate as they can give you plenty of information on what your sensors are saying to the Ecu.
Fault codes etc.
Speed sensor can also trigger idle problems that appear to be Stepper motor issues but it's actually being caused by spurious sensor readings.
Again the Manual that you get with Ecumate goes into this tech so it's well worth reading.
Hope you get a solution.
Dear all,
Thank you for your feedback. I checked every connector over the weekend, cleaned the AFM but the car still runs rough and the acceleration under medium load it is uneven - it feels like the car is being held back. Still need to do strobe test. The car is a Griff 500 1997 with precats removed and main still in.
I connected Rover Gauge and here my findings :
- I noticed that the speed indication on Rover gauge only either shows 0, 53 or 59 Km/h - is this normal. The speedometer on the car will go evenly up (stops at 80 Km/h but that is another issue I believe)
- I removed the stepper motor and connected it while holding it in my hand. When putting on ignition it vibrates but does not extend - same when shutting off ignition. I then sealed the hole and started the engine and it then extended completely. I cleaned it (even though it was clean) by turning off ignition it retraces completely. Is it normal that it does not move when just putting on ignition ?
- At idle rover gauge shows a target RPM of 900 - but the engine will swing from 860 to 940 and run uneven - is this the stepper not working properly.
- I attach 2 screen shots - one at idle and one at 2880 RPM.
Thanks for your help guys - appreciate it.
![](http://thumbsnap.com/sc/LIHDxWpd.png[/img]</a> <a href="http://thumbsnap.com/znTRREsR" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]http://thumbsnap.com/sc/znTRREsR.png)
Thank you for your feedback. I checked every connector over the weekend, cleaned the AFM but the car still runs rough and the acceleration under medium load it is uneven - it feels like the car is being held back. Still need to do strobe test. The car is a Griff 500 1997 with precats removed and main still in.
I connected Rover Gauge and here my findings :
- I noticed that the speed indication on Rover gauge only either shows 0, 53 or 59 Km/h - is this normal. The speedometer on the car will go evenly up (stops at 80 Km/h but that is another issue I believe)
- I removed the stepper motor and connected it while holding it in my hand. When putting on ignition it vibrates but does not extend - same when shutting off ignition. I then sealed the hole and started the engine and it then extended completely. I cleaned it (even though it was clean) by turning off ignition it retraces completely. Is it normal that it does not move when just putting on ignition ?
- At idle rover gauge shows a target RPM of 900 - but the engine will swing from 860 to 940 and run uneven - is this the stepper not working properly.
- I attach 2 screen shots - one at idle and one at 2880 RPM.
Thanks for your help guys - appreciate it.
tofts said:
You could have an intermittent earth problem for your engine loom, I discovered some dodgy running issues when I was rebuilding a griff and completely forgot to connect the three earths at the back of the engine bay back up. Once connected, car ran like a dream. There are 2 black earths above the oil filter housing as well, and there are 3 earths at the back right as your looking at the engine, make sure they are good and sound.
J
Thanks tofts.J
Can you accurately describe where the the 3 earths at the back of the engine bay are? Photos are a big help if possible .
Thanks again
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