billow machine griffith

[Hamlet500]

Hi folks,
once more the bloody german needs advice. Short time after the last activities (changing worn tappets) I have a new problem. After starting the engine its running absolutely smooth, two or three minutes later it begins to blow light blue smoke. I hoped, it would disappear after reaching normal motor temperature, but no way. I only forced the people behind me to use their driving lights because of the weather changes to fog! I was glad to disappear from the streets.
So, what can it be. Our discussions include gaskets (ventil stem, head)or more substantial motor damage.Until now I can't see much loss of water or oil, but I don't start it any more.How can I easily check or discriminate, what's going on. Why does it not begin to smoke directly after starting , when the engine is still cold. Is there a chance of other than the expensive options, I fear to face? How much is a rebuild or a new machine in England?

[2Munkys]

Hamlet

Does your car have powered steering?

Don't know if this applies to your situation but my Griff used to suffer a similar problem if not used for a week or so. It is very common to find power steering fluid leaking from the hose/'U' bend arrangement below the pump. The oil droplets tend to fall forward of the 'Y' piece/exhaust joint and run down into the system. It takes a few minutes for the exhaust to get up to temp' and burn off this residue.

Just a thought Buddy. Hope it's a quick fix.

[crankedup]

As 2munkeys suggests it might be an oil leak onto hot manifolds.

What engine oil are you using?

Sounds like it could be valve stem seals need replacing, but you could have a compression test on the engine which may help diagnose problem of something more evil, like piston rings worn perhaps. If the engine sounds healthy its a wear problem.

Sorry can't be more helpful, hope you get a fix soon.

[apache]

Is it coming from the exhausts

Does it happen on pressing the peddle from idle then die off

Does it occur all the time once the engine is warm

Is there any sign of oil in the water or vice versa

Does the dipstick get pushed up after a large dose of throttle

What is the pressure doing

Answer these for a better idea

[spend]

[redacted]

[GreenV8S]

sounds very much like the symptoms I've got on the V8S at the moment. One plug had been a bit oily for a few months but nothing major. After a cam change it suddenly got much much worse. If started from cold it's clean for a minute or so and then gradually smokes more and more, much more under acceleration and less when coasting/decellerating. I think what's happening in my case is when the engine stops there is loads of nice hot thin oil at the top of the engine, and some of it slowly seeps down the valve guide into the affected cylinder. Starting the cold engine with oil in one cylinder, noting happens immediately until that cylinder gets hot enough to burn the oil off. After two or three minutes when all the oil has been burnt off, it runs cleanly again. But during those few minutes it produces masses of really thick smoke.

I don't know, but I suspect that during the cam change the valve was pushed down past its normal operating range and this meant a dirty bit of valve stem got pushed through the seal, damaging it.

Allegedly you can replace the seals without taking the heads off, but it seems to be a bit of a gamble and none of the professionals I talked to thought it was viable. So it's basically a heads off job, probably the best part of a days labour to replace a 25p seal. In my case I've decided that it's not worth it given the age of the engine, so I will be throwing the engine away for the sake of a 25p seal.

[Hamlet500]

apache said:

Is it coming from the exhausts Does it happen on pressing the peddle from idle then die off Does it occur all the time once the engine is warm Is there any sign of oil in the water or vice versa Does the dipstick get pushed up after a large dose of throttle What is the pressure doing Answer these for a better idea

[Hamlet500]

apache said:

Is it coming from the exhausts Does it happen on pressing the peddle from idle then die off Does it occur all the time once the engine is warm Is there any sign of oil in the water or vice versa Does the dipstick get pushed up after a large dose of throttle What is the pressure doing Answer these for a better idea

Yes, it's coming from the exhausts, and it occurs all the time, when the engine becomes warm.There's a second source of intermittent smoke from the passenger footwell,tht means the engine bay and that is clearly produced by,as 2Munkys suggested, a leak in the PAS. But this is a well known minor problem and different from the new exhaust-smoke-problem.
I will have to check if water or oil is the main problem, but it smells like oil and looks light blue.My oil for the moment -after changing the tappets- is a 10W40 mineral type, normally I use a 10W60 Castrol.
If I had a choice, I would prefer valve stem seals from cracks in the cylinder head or broken rings.

[Hamlet500]

GreenV8S said:

sounds very much like the symptoms I've got on the V8S at the moment. One plug had been a bit oily for a few months but nothing major. After a cam change it suddenly got much much worse. If started from cold it's clean for a minute or so and then gradually smokes more and more, much more under acceleration and less when coasting/decellerating. I think what's happening in my case is when the engine stops there is loads of nice hot thin oil at the top of the engine, and some of it slowly seeps down the valve guide into the affected cylinder. Starting the cold engine with oil in one cylinder, noting happens immediately until that cylinder gets hot enough to burn the oil off. After two or three minutes when all the oil has been burnt off, it runs cleanly again. But during those few minutes it produces masses of really thick smoke. I don't know, but I suspect that during the cam change the valve was pushed down past its normal operating range and this meant a dirty bit of valve stem got pushed through the seal, damaging it. Allegedly you can replace the seals without taking the heads off, but it seems to be a bit of a gamble and none of the professionals I talked to thought it was viable. So it's basically a heads off job, probably the best part of a days labour to replace a 25p seal. In my case I've decided that it's not worth it given the age of the engine, so I will be throwing the engine away for the sake of a 25p seal.

[Hamlet500]

GreenV8S said:

sounds very much like the symptoms I've got on the V8S at the moment. One plug had been a bit oily for a few months but nothing major. After a cam change it suddenly got much much worse. If started from cold it's clean for a minute or so and then gradually smokes more and more, much more under acceleration and less when coasting/decellerating. I think what's happening in my case is when the engine stops there is loads of nice hot thin oil at the top of the engine, and some of it slowly seeps down the valve guide into the affected cylinder. Starting the cold engine with oil in one cylinder, noting happens immediately until that cylinder gets hot enough to burn the oil off. After two or three minutes when all the oil has been burnt off, it runs cleanly again. But during those few minutes it produces masses of really thick smoke. I don't know, but I suspect that during the cam change the valve was pushed down past its normal operating range and this meant a dirty bit of valve stem got pushed through the seal, damaging it. Allegedly you can replace the seals without taking the heads off, but it seems to be a bit of a gamble and none of the professionals I talked to thought it was viable. So it's basically a heads off job, probably the best part of a days labour to replace a 25p seal. In my case I've decided that it's not worth it given the age of the engine, so I will be throwing the engine away for the sake of a 25p seal.

That's astonishing. If I understand you right,you decided to change the engine instead of changing the seal. As far as I know, one full day of labour in your country is around 400 Pounds, so how much is a new or exchange engine? TVR Power takes atleast 5-7k, as I've been told?! Lately somebody in Germany told me, that a complete rebuild of a Grif 500 engine is at least 10000 Euros??? So I clearly prefer changing seals, if possible and a solution of the problem.

[GreenV8S]

Hamlet500 said:

That's astonishing. If I understand you right,you decided to change the engine instead of changing the seal. As far as I know, one full day of labour in your country is around 400 Pounds, so how much is a new or exchange engine? TVR Power takes atleast 5-7k, as I've been told?! Lately somebody in Germany told me, that a complete rebuild of a Grif 500 engine is at least 10000 Euros??? So I clearly prefer changing seals, if possible and a solution of the problem.

To be fair, I haven't given you the whole story. The engine has done around 100,000 very hard miles, it was still going well but definitely past its best when I fitted the blower and has had an extremely tough life since then. I count myself lucky that it hasn't simply gone bang. If I start taking it apart to replace the seals other things will need sorting along the way and before you know it I've spent thousands and still got a hundred thousand mile engine. Rebuilding gets very expensive especially if it is done piecemeal. It is cheaper to do it all at once, and in my case cheaper still to simply fit a new engine. I'm keeping the costs down by going for a stock 4.6 and then getting the power back with the blower. That's the plan anyway!

[charlie sprout]

Have you put oil in recently? I made the mistake of overfilling the oil on my first car. When I drove it, oil was forced past the piston seals and resulted in REALLY thick smoke screen behind me
No damage done (pre-cat), but very dramatic!
I hope your problem turns out to be something as simple and as cheap to sort out as that.
Good luck.

>> Edited by charlie sprout on Sunday 17th April 07:30

[Hamlet500]

I fear, I might have to prepare for a new engine. So what possibilities do I have? What experiences do you have with rebuilds or exchange engines.? How much is an exchange engine for a G 500? How much is a rebuild? I will have to calculate, because I will have to add the price of bringing the engine or the car to England, so any alternatives are welcome.
Thanks for advice

Hamlet

[GreenV8S]

I've decided to see if new seals will fix it - I don't have a great deal to lose since my labour is effectively free. I'll let you know how it goes!

When you come to a full engine rebuild/replacement, unless you're stripping the engine yourself I think it is more cost effective to buy a new engine rather than fully strip/refurbish an old one. Have a look at the V8D and RPI V8 web sites for an indication of cost. You can get a nice spec new 4.6 like mine for about £3200, or you can pay up to three or four times that for a top spec engine. But it deends how much of the original engine you can reuse, whether you buy a new clutch, refurb the gearbox while it's out etc etc. The costs can mount up very quickly.