Discussion
das2000m said:
I’ve noticed quite a few cars being reduced in price, most seem to be high milage examples but a few higher priced ones are not. I’m just wondering if the market is leveling off, or has the recent bad weather had an effect, or over supply / overpriced ???
There is a big range on condition, mileage, cost to put right.If a car has been on the market for a long time, there is normally a reason.
With interest rate hikes prices of the more extreme classic cars may soften, the rise of Griffiths and Chimaeras hasn't been as dramatic as some soprobably not likely to drop so quickly either.
Edited by SMB on Monday 5th March 14:06
It is supply and demand and a car is only worth what someone will pay for it.
Some people will NEED to sell and will price realistically.
Others fancy a change of car but will only let their pride and joy go at the right (high) price.
Many will start with an optimistic price and then drop it if the car doesn't sell, but they do need to sell.
On cars that are between 15 and 25 years old, I am not sure that mileage is relevant - most people will buy on condition.
Any that havnt had outrigger replacement will need it doing soon, and whichever way it is done, it will be an expensive job.
Then throw in a range of different engines and colour combos, and some people will only consider certain things......
Even taking out the most expensive couple and the cheapest couple, there is still a huge range of prices, and that probably does reflect the condition and desirability of each car.
Some people will NEED to sell and will price realistically.
Others fancy a change of car but will only let their pride and joy go at the right (high) price.
Many will start with an optimistic price and then drop it if the car doesn't sell, but they do need to sell.
On cars that are between 15 and 25 years old, I am not sure that mileage is relevant - most people will buy on condition.
Any that havnt had outrigger replacement will need it doing soon, and whichever way it is done, it will be an expensive job.
Then throw in a range of different engines and colour combos, and some people will only consider certain things......
Even taking out the most expensive couple and the cheapest couple, there is still a huge range of prices, and that probably does reflect the condition and desirability of each car.
Something like:
25-30K for a really Good 500 or 4.3 BV in my experience.
£17-22K for a good 4.0.
Roughly speaking anyway, I looked at 7 cars in March- June last year.
I do agree though, there have been some cars for sale very cheap lately, but nearly always not very good colour combinations and or no doubt hiding a lot of work.
The car the Griff replaced was a Maserati, those were unbelievably sensitive to mileage price wise! made me laugh a bit as there were some low mileage unused cars that commanded a premium yet you just know that they would be a money pit if you actually wanted to drive them. Lack of use doesn't do much good in my opinion, and with no recent bills. For example, all coolant hoses on a 15-20 year old Maserati or similar will be soft and porous, have to be replaced to be reliable, and the 3200 had a lot of hoses, mostly inaccessible.
25-30K for a really Good 500 or 4.3 BV in my experience.
£17-22K for a good 4.0.
Roughly speaking anyway, I looked at 7 cars in March- June last year.
I do agree though, there have been some cars for sale very cheap lately, but nearly always not very good colour combinations and or no doubt hiding a lot of work.
The car the Griff replaced was a Maserati, those were unbelievably sensitive to mileage price wise! made me laugh a bit as there were some low mileage unused cars that commanded a premium yet you just know that they would be a money pit if you actually wanted to drive them. Lack of use doesn't do much good in my opinion, and with no recent bills. For example, all coolant hoses on a 15-20 year old Maserati or similar will be soft and porous, have to be replaced to be reliable, and the 3200 had a lot of hoses, mostly inaccessible.
They are a lovely car, very elegant and arguably the last true Maserati.
Also much more of a hooligan than most people would think, theyr'e pretty lively when the turbos kick in, it all comes on in one go.
They are not as bad as made out, check sportsmaserati.co.uk for advice.
Mine was a good one, but even then I spent lots on preventative maintenance, but came out of financially OK, but did spend a lot of my own time doing the work. Even with contactless upgrades the electronic drive by wire throttle is a crap design and can throw codes and limp modes.
Manuals can also suffer from crankshaft endfloat, the clutch is a pull type that can wear out the crank thrust washers. That issue is not as common as most make out, but essential it is measured before buying.
Mine was an Assetto Corsa Auto, so with uprated chassis etc, great steering etc The auto was better than I thought it would be, but if buying again I would go for manual.
The later 4200 has some cheaper components, more plastic, no boomerangs and not many have a manual box.
They also sound good on idle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfTOv5Gh4Qw
and on the move: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJUCOLTvkBc&t=...
Also ideally get a post 2001 one which has an ODB port for easy code logging.
Also much more of a hooligan than most people would think, theyr'e pretty lively when the turbos kick in, it all comes on in one go.
They are not as bad as made out, check sportsmaserati.co.uk for advice.
Mine was a good one, but even then I spent lots on preventative maintenance, but came out of financially OK, but did spend a lot of my own time doing the work. Even with contactless upgrades the electronic drive by wire throttle is a crap design and can throw codes and limp modes.
Manuals can also suffer from crankshaft endfloat, the clutch is a pull type that can wear out the crank thrust washers. That issue is not as common as most make out, but essential it is measured before buying.
Mine was an Assetto Corsa Auto, so with uprated chassis etc, great steering etc The auto was better than I thought it would be, but if buying again I would go for manual.
The later 4200 has some cheaper components, more plastic, no boomerangs and not many have a manual box.
They also sound good on idle: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfTOv5Gh4Qw
and on the move: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJUCOLTvkBc&t=...
Also ideally get a post 2001 one which has an ODB port for easy code logging.
jmn said:
I think that the early cars that are at least 25 years old will start to appreciate quite quickly now that they are eligible for export to the USA. STR8six are advertising a restored precat for $60000!
Wrong. American's simply do not like RHD. Also, pre-cats are potentially limited in which states they can be registered due to differing emission requirements. California for one, and that's a HUGE market shut down. A recent discussion on Jalopnik also indicated its not to US tastes and American's are holding out for the Cerbera and later cars. https://jalopnik.com/america-is-overrun-with-nissa...I have only seen 2 for sale in the US in the last year, and one was in Canada.
STR8six are dreaming at that price. If the car had been converted to LHD that would have made a difference. The 25 year import rules also state the car should be in its original build configuration for the engine etc, so technically you could not import a modified car.
geeman237 said:
Wrong. American's simply do not like RHD.
Yes, but if they love TVRs that much they'd put up with it. You're making the assumption that only Americans would be interested and not expats. I for one had an American very interested in importing mine last year, to the point where he said he would store it for an entire year until it qualified for entry as it was a year 'too young'.If Americans do not like rhd why would they be waiting for Cerberas?
I have read the 'Jalopnik' article. It refers to the large number of Nissan Skylines on USA roads. Presumably many of these are rhd?
The TVR Club of North America is predicting that there will be considerable interest in Griffiths which have only just become eligible for import.
As for Catalytic Converters these are an easy retrofit.
I have read the 'Jalopnik' article. It refers to the large number of Nissan Skylines on USA roads. Presumably many of these are rhd?
The TVR Club of North America is predicting that there will be considerable interest in Griffiths which have only just become eligible for import.
As for Catalytic Converters these are an easy retrofit.
Hard to say what will happen to Griff & Chim demand & prices for the US in the next few years; however, I'm an example:
-US buyer
-bought and stored (at a relative living in UK) a pre-serp / t5 Griff 500 and will ship it to US in mid 2019.
-paid approx 20+K GBP for a good original car that still needs some upgrades I want to do ( tires, veneer dash, carpets, etc )
-would have looked at newer serp 500's, but would take too long to store before bringing to US under the >25 year rule
-owned a 2500M in US and always wanted a Griffith 500, so my Griff "awareness" was high
I agree that some states like California prevent buyers due to emissions; but there are ample #'s of buyers that era not California situs that
are potential Griffith or Chim owners. In addition, Land Rover dealers in US have serviced the 4 liter engines for years, so Rover V8's are a known entity here in the US. Other than the 14cux and wiring factors, these are relatively uncomplicated cars to service for the performance they offer.
The TVR wedge cars ( 280i ) were the last cars "dealer sold" in the US, so there is a certain amount of pent up TVR interest in the US for the later cars like Griffs & Chim with Rover V8 variations. Might be somewhat less demand for Cerb's with the TVR sourced engine as there is no US knowledge / parts source other than direct from the UK.
The GBP to US dollar is obviously another cost/value factor, too.... in addition to storage and shipping & import costs.
As others have said, I'm sure there are other US buyers like me lurking out there for 93-95-96 cars.
As Geeman says: only a very few are currently in the US today.
I'm not interested in re-selling my Griff....I'm keeping it for "me" to enjoy!
Doug
-US buyer
-bought and stored (at a relative living in UK) a pre-serp / t5 Griff 500 and will ship it to US in mid 2019.
-paid approx 20+K GBP for a good original car that still needs some upgrades I want to do ( tires, veneer dash, carpets, etc )
-would have looked at newer serp 500's, but would take too long to store before bringing to US under the >25 year rule
-owned a 2500M in US and always wanted a Griffith 500, so my Griff "awareness" was high
I agree that some states like California prevent buyers due to emissions; but there are ample #'s of buyers that era not California situs that
are potential Griffith or Chim owners. In addition, Land Rover dealers in US have serviced the 4 liter engines for years, so Rover V8's are a known entity here in the US. Other than the 14cux and wiring factors, these are relatively uncomplicated cars to service for the performance they offer.
The TVR wedge cars ( 280i ) were the last cars "dealer sold" in the US, so there is a certain amount of pent up TVR interest in the US for the later cars like Griffs & Chim with Rover V8 variations. Might be somewhat less demand for Cerb's with the TVR sourced engine as there is no US knowledge / parts source other than direct from the UK.
The GBP to US dollar is obviously another cost/value factor, too.... in addition to storage and shipping & import costs.
As others have said, I'm sure there are other US buyers like me lurking out there for 93-95-96 cars.
As Geeman says: only a very few are currently in the US today.
I'm not interested in re-selling my Griff....I'm keeping it for "me" to enjoy!
Doug
LeeHodges said:
geeman237 said:
Wrong. American's simply do not like RHD.
Yes, but if they love TVRs that much they'd put up with it. You're making the assumption that only Americans would be interested and not expats. I for one had an American very interested in importing mine last year, to the point where he said he would store it for an entire year until it qualified for entry as it was a year 'too young'.
Here's a comment from someone about a RHD Mini currently listed on Bring A Trailer as an example. "RHD is def not an advantage here in CA or with this sale, or any other LHD country for that matter. Driving in traffic is awkward, especially passing on a two lane road. Many will say it’s safe and just gets some getting used to….I say, it should be illegal. Before you ask…yes I have one. If it didn’t have the Jap style dash with AC etc., it would have been switch a long time ago……hate driving RHD in CA
This one would be a little harder to convert as the centre binnacle is long gone, but easy enough to do in an afternoon"
I've lived in the US 14 years now and have got a pretty good handle on the US market of British cars.
jmn said:
If Americans do not like rhd why would they be waiting for Cerberas?
I have read the 'Jalopnik' article. It refers to the large number of Nissan Skylines on USA roads. Presumably many of these are rhd?
The TVR Club of North America is predicting that there will be considerable interest in Griffiths which have only just become eligible for import.
As for Catalytic Converters these are an easy retrofit.
There were only a couple of comments on the Jalopnik piece saying they'd wait for the Cerbera, so time will tell if the rubber will meet the road and Americans actually do buy more Cerberas.I have read the 'Jalopnik' article. It refers to the large number of Nissan Skylines on USA roads. Presumably many of these are rhd?
The TVR Club of North America is predicting that there will be considerable interest in Griffiths which have only just become eligible for import.
As for Catalytic Converters these are an easy retrofit.
The Skyline owners are a different breed than TVR owners I think. They tend to be more of the "Playstation Generation" and prepared to buy RHD, and a TVR doesn't appeal to them. Older British cars still have a pretty bad reputation in the US for reliability etc.
The TVR Club of North America is still listing the yellow 92 Griffith that was listed a year ago. Price it probably too high. The exchange rate has also fallen for the dollar making it more expensive.
There's one on ebay for 16k. Been there a while. Seems usable to me and not a repaired one I think. There are 2 others that are under £20k:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1996-TVR-GRIFFITH-500-H...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1996-TVR-GRIFFITH-500-H...
ianwayne said:
There's one on ebay for 16k. Been there a while. Seems usable to me and not a repaired one I think. There are 2 others that are under £20k:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1996-TVR-GRIFFITH-500-H...
Big miles, but looks ok. Why hasn't it sold?https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1996-TVR-GRIFFITH-500-H...
Personally I wouldnt touch one that hasn’t had a thorough chassis inspection. After cherishing a late griff 500 for most of its life with thorough annual waxolying etc then seeing the state of the chassis now it’s got the body off getting a full professional restoration.......you cannot see the chassis properly until the body is off and they rust from the inside out so it doesn’t matter what you treat the outside with. If the outriggers are shot or the chassis looks rusty....make sure it’s a cheap car as at some point you will need to take the body off to do it properly.
Paxo1 said:
Personally I wouldnt touch one that hasn’t had a thorough chassis inspection. After cherishing a late griff 500 for most of its life with thorough annual waxolying etc then seeing the state of the chassis now it’s got the body off getting a full professional restoration.......you cannot see the chassis properly until the body is off and they rust from the inside out so it doesn’t matter what you treat the outside with. If the outriggers are shot or the chassis looks rusty....make sure it’s a cheap car as at some point you will need to take the body off to do it properly.
They don't rust from the inside, the corrosion on an original chassis starts at the welds were contaminants cause the coating to fail. Once broken water gets in and extends the corrosion. One of the issues with poor powder coat is that it can bridge tight corners on application leaving small air pockets that start corrosion. Also sharp edges tend to fail first. That's why the best recommended corrosion resistance can come from wet spray solutions.Gassing Station | Griffith | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff