smoke machine 2. edition
Discussion
Hi folks,
I discussed the problem before, today I ran out of ideas, need advice or will have to get the car to Britain. The problem: LOTS!!!! of white /blueish smoke developing out of the exhausts a few minutes after starting the acoustically normal running engine (Griffith 500), apparently after warming up. I got many good comments, so I tried to get it clear within my possibilities. 1.: Took the plenum off and found a damaged valley gasket (folded across the outlet manifold part of one cylinder). 2.: to exclude an often mentioned additional possibility, I took the cylinder-heads off, gave them away to perform a pressure test. Result: No hairline cracks, no warping, heads o.k. 3.: Changed head gaskets, which didn't look that bad. 4.: Checked the liners (minimal wear). The local discussion of the possible reasons for the smoke-problem between professionals, semi-professionals and enthusiastic non professional showed the following hit parade of probabilities: 1: The valley gasket was the problem. 2: The cylinder-heads are always the reason. 3: The block may be the reason, if the former points are excluded. 4: The Rover V8 block is stable, never the reason. 5: Valve stem seals may be guilty (but actually it's too much smoke for that). 5: Crankcase breather may be the reason ( If it is so, how can I check). 6: Loose inlet manifold bolts are the reason.
So I built it together after changíng the valley gasket and head gaskets, after looking at the liners and testing the heads for cracks. Result now: getting warm after running quite normally, when still cold, it again plays "full-on smoke machine". Last "desperate questions" now before giving up are: Shall I drive the engine "to burn residual oil in the exhausts", which after an effective gasket-repair for the moment still produces that lovely smoke or will exactly that idea destroy my cats, if it's oil coming from the combustion area?
I discussed the problem before, today I ran out of ideas, need advice or will have to get the car to Britain. The problem: LOTS!!!! of white /blueish smoke developing out of the exhausts a few minutes after starting the acoustically normal running engine (Griffith 500), apparently after warming up. I got many good comments, so I tried to get it clear within my possibilities. 1.: Took the plenum off and found a damaged valley gasket (folded across the outlet manifold part of one cylinder). 2.: to exclude an often mentioned additional possibility, I took the cylinder-heads off, gave them away to perform a pressure test. Result: No hairline cracks, no warping, heads o.k. 3.: Changed head gaskets, which didn't look that bad. 4.: Checked the liners (minimal wear). The local discussion of the possible reasons for the smoke-problem between professionals, semi-professionals and enthusiastic non professional showed the following hit parade of probabilities: 1: The valley gasket was the problem. 2: The cylinder-heads are always the reason. 3: The block may be the reason, if the former points are excluded. 4: The Rover V8 block is stable, never the reason. 5: Valve stem seals may be guilty (but actually it's too much smoke for that). 5: Crankcase breather may be the reason ( If it is so, how can I check). 6: Loose inlet manifold bolts are the reason.
So I built it together after changíng the valley gasket and head gaskets, after looking at the liners and testing the heads for cracks. Result now: getting warm after running quite normally, when still cold, it again plays "full-on smoke machine". Last "desperate questions" now before giving up are: Shall I drive the engine "to burn residual oil in the exhausts", which after an effective gasket-repair for the moment still produces that lovely smoke or will exactly that idea destroy my cats, if it's oil coming from the combustion area?
You've already progressed way beyond my level of knowledge, so I can't help.
But if it helps, here is an amusing picture of my smoke machine, which turned out to be a cracked head:
(Click here for short movie [176kb])
But if it helps, here is an amusing picture of my smoke machine, which turned out to be a cracked head:
(Click here for short movie [176kb])
[quote=JonRB]You've already progressed way beyond my level of knowledge, so I can't help.
But if it helps, here is an amusing picture of my smoke machine, which turned out to be a cracked head:
Yes Jon,
Thanks for the picture,
that's exactly the amount and kind of smoke, that I see after the warm-up period. But my cylinder heads are checked and o.k. Was the smoke still there directly after the repair, maybe coming from residual oil in the exhaust system and did you need some miles to burn it?
But if it helps, here is an amusing picture of my smoke machine, which turned out to be a cracked head:
Yes Jon,
Thanks for the picture,
that's exactly the amount and kind of smoke, that I see after the warm-up period. But my cylinder heads are checked and o.k. Was the smoke still there directly after the repair, maybe coming from residual oil in the exhaust system and did you need some miles to burn it?
Hmm I Would be tempeded to remove the cats 1st, as these may be dammaged by now, run them withhout them, as you have replaced the gasket their may be exessive oil in the exhaust system and needs burning off, Hamlet500 said:No, this pic was taken before the head repair. Afterwards there was some very minor smoke as the coolant soaked into the cats was burnt off, but it was nothing like the volume or density as it was pre-repair.
that's exactly the amount and kind of smoke, that I see after the warm-up period. But my cylinder heads are checked and o.k. Was the smoke still there directly after the repair, maybe coming from residual oil in the exhaust system and did you need some miles to burn it?
JonRB said:
You've already progressed way beyond my level of knowledge, so I can't help.
But if it helps, here is an amusing picture of my smoke machine, which turned out to be a cracked head:
(Click here for short movie [176kb])
Krikey and I thought you were doing a burn out then realised the car was on gravel 
Ste..
It could be a cracked block, or a bust piston ring. If the smoke is blue in colour then the engine is burning oil, this could come from the piston rings or the valve guides or stems. If the smoke is white then its coolant your burning and a cracked block seams likely if you have had the heads tested.
The other thing to think about is that in about 1996 TVR received a load of engines from rover that turned out to have porous blocks, this can cause loads or symptoms such as a slipping liner or coolant seepage.
I would call TVR power and talk to them, tell them what you have had done and what is happening and they should be able to help.
The other thing to think about is that in about 1996 TVR received a load of engines from rover that turned out to have porous blocks, this can cause loads or symptoms such as a slipping liner or coolant seepage.
I would call TVR power and talk to them, tell them what you have had done and what is happening and they should be able to help.
Hi Hamlet
a couple of things are you sure that is not steam are your water levels dropping , is there water in the oil.
If it is indeed oil then you have a piston ring away by the look of things , have a compression test done on each cylinder and look for the one that is signifintly lower than the rest.
hope this is of some help
si
a couple of things are you sure that is not steam are your water levels dropping , is there water in the oil.
If it is indeed oil then you have a piston ring away by the look of things , have a compression test done on each cylinder and look for the one that is signifintly lower than the rest.
hope this is of some help
si
Hamlet500 said:
2: The cylinder-heads are always the reason. 3: The block may be the reason, if the former points are excluded. 4: The Rover V8 block is stable, never the reason.
I don't agree with 2/. or 4/. £/. seems to ba likely. Sadly for you I think that johnnyb may be right.
jonnyb said:
It could be a cracked block, or a bust piston ring. If the smoke is blue in colour then the engine is burning oil, this could come from the piston rings or the valve guides or stems. If the smoke is white then its coolant your burning and a cracked block seams likely if you have had the heads tested.
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