Bitter Disappointment
Discussion
As many know, I have been working 24/7 for the last 3 months or more to finish the Griff in time for the Growl. I had planned to get it ready with at least a week to potter about in case of any gremlins. It was supposed to have an MOT on Thursday, but rain stopped play. So I arranged it for yesterday.
Bearing in mind it hasn't run on the road for two years, I must admit I was a little nervous of any faults.
I arrived at the MOT place, it hadn't missed a beat. In fact it was smooth no unusual noises, perfect.
It sailed through the test, and the chap there was most complementary. On the way home I stopped at the tyre place to have the toe in checked on their super hi tech aligner, not wanting to scrub my nice new Toyo's.
The lad wanted to drive it onto the ramp(insurance reasons! yeah right)and he stalled it! and that's were it stayed. After much checking, it turned out the fuel pump had locked up solid.mmm I thought, it was perhaps the only part I hadn't renewed, so I blamed myself. So off to TVR Centre and £190 later, I returned with new pump. I fitted it turned the key, perfect, it burst into life.
I then drove perhaps 1 1/2 miles to the pub my friend runs (4.3 Griff) to pick him up to retrieve Freelander etc. and it stopped:eek: Again it turned out to be the fuel pump:rage:
Off to Allparts and purchased a similar 3.5 Range Rover pump (similar unit but Lucas not Bosch) fitted it and perfect. My friend drove the car home without any problems, whilst I followed in the Landy. (sounded great from behind)
I can't run the risk of 70 miles to the Growl in case the same thing happens, plus Mrs Pee would not be ammused spending the day on the M40.
The only strange thing about all of this is the tank seemed to have a lot of vacuum in it when I released the cap and the pipe to the pump? Is it normal for it to run like that? I find it strange, so I have dis-connected the purge tank hose, plugged the end, so the tank vents to atmosphere.
I am so fed up after working round the clock only to have to miss the event. Hope you all have a great time. Please post loads of pics.
Bearing in mind it hasn't run on the road for two years, I must admit I was a little nervous of any faults.
I arrived at the MOT place, it hadn't missed a beat. In fact it was smooth no unusual noises, perfect.
It sailed through the test, and the chap there was most complementary. On the way home I stopped at the tyre place to have the toe in checked on their super hi tech aligner, not wanting to scrub my nice new Toyo's.
The lad wanted to drive it onto the ramp(insurance reasons! yeah right)and he stalled it! and that's were it stayed. After much checking, it turned out the fuel pump had locked up solid.mmm I thought, it was perhaps the only part I hadn't renewed, so I blamed myself. So off to TVR Centre and £190 later, I returned with new pump. I fitted it turned the key, perfect, it burst into life.
I then drove perhaps 1 1/2 miles to the pub my friend runs (4.3 Griff) to pick him up to retrieve Freelander etc. and it stopped:eek: Again it turned out to be the fuel pump:rage:
Off to Allparts and purchased a similar 3.5 Range Rover pump (similar unit but Lucas not Bosch) fitted it and perfect. My friend drove the car home without any problems, whilst I followed in the Landy. (sounded great from behind)
I can't run the risk of 70 miles to the Growl in case the same thing happens, plus Mrs Pee would not be ammused spending the day on the M40.
The only strange thing about all of this is the tank seemed to have a lot of vacuum in it when I released the cap and the pipe to the pump? Is it normal for it to run like that? I find it strange, so I have dis-connected the purge tank hose, plugged the end, so the tank vents to atmosphere.
I am so fed up after working round the clock only to have to miss the event. Hope you all have a great time. Please post loads of pics.
Don't suppose your fuel filter is around the wrong way?
surely the tank vent thru the carbon canister? you mat have too much vacuum that preventing the fuel flow and seizing the pump...or similar.
there's the fuel cap, which seals.
cannister pipe in the neck (as discussed)
fuel feed (lower LHS)
and fuel return (upper RHS)
not sure if there's a pure vent pipe?
some peeps have notched the seal in the fuel cap to prevent banging of the tank caused by vacuum, but this compromises roll safety (fuel leakiage)
you could have trapped/squashed a pipe when the tank was removed tho...i did this during the engine install.
>> Edited by Guillotine on Sunday 21st August 20:51
there's the fuel cap, which seals.
cannister pipe in the neck (as discussed)
fuel feed (lower LHS)
and fuel return (upper RHS)
not sure if there's a pure vent pipe?
some peeps have notched the seal in the fuel cap to prevent banging of the tank caused by vacuum, but this compromises roll safety (fuel leakiage)
you could have trapped/squashed a pipe when the tank was removed tho...i did this during the engine install.
>> Edited by Guillotine on Sunday 21st August 20:51
It has BFG braided hose suitable for the job, I don't think thats the problem though.
I put a Lucas unit as fitted to a Range Rover on, disconected the purge system and it ran perfectly all the way home, so I'm thinking the excessive vacuum in the tank is probably the cause.
I have read on previous postings that it is "normal" for there to be some suction, but surely that will impede the flow of fuel through the line?
What I am afraid of is putting another Bosch pump on and the same thing ocurring. Especially as they are £190 a go.
It's a real shame as the rest of the car seems to be fine. I was expecting some teething problems, which perhaps is to be usual seeing as the vehicle has been stripped down to the last nut and bolt. Suprisingly everything works as it should although the speedo sits a zero, but thats an easy thing to fix, (I hope!)
Has anyone else experienced something similar?
I put a Lucas unit as fitted to a Range Rover on, disconected the purge system and it ran perfectly all the way home, so I'm thinking the excessive vacuum in the tank is probably the cause.
I have read on previous postings that it is "normal" for there to be some suction, but surely that will impede the flow of fuel through the line?
What I am afraid of is putting another Bosch pump on and the same thing ocurring. Especially as they are £190 a go.
It's a real shame as the rest of the car seems to be fine. I was expecting some teething problems, which perhaps is to be usual seeing as the vehicle has been stripped down to the last nut and bolt. Suprisingly everything works as it should although the speedo sits a zero, but thats an easy thing to fix, (I hope!)
Has anyone else experienced something similar?
I'm afraid the most likely cause is rust or sediment from the tank getting into the pump and causing it to seize. The high pressure line filter is fitted downstream of the pump.
A quick fix is to fit an ordinary low pressure filter before the pump, but you need to keep an eye on it to make sure it does not get choked with debris.
Long term solution is to clean out or replace the tank.
Paul.
A quick fix is to fit an ordinary low pressure filter before the pump, but you need to keep an eye on it to make sure it does not get choked with debris.
Long term solution is to clean out or replace the tank.
Paul.
When the tank was installed, I cleaned out any bits that may have been in there. Although virtually nothing came out, as the tank was reasonably clean to start with.
I have since taken the original pump apart, to inspect it, in case anything foreign was inside.
It was totally clean, no bits or sinister debris. There was a small mark on the wall of the pump part, which may have been the cause of it stopping, but nothing else!
Surely these units must allow small particles to be flushed through, hence the main filter being downstream of the output?
I will be picking up a new Bosch pump tomorrow, but the idea of a pre filter does sound like a good idea. I'm suprised the factory didn't fit one as standard, if they are sensitive to these problems.
I have since taken the original pump apart, to inspect it, in case anything foreign was inside.
It was totally clean, no bits or sinister debris. There was a small mark on the wall of the pump part, which may have been the cause of it stopping, but nothing else!
Surely these units must allow small particles to be flushed through, hence the main filter being downstream of the output?
I will be picking up a new Bosch pump tomorrow, but the idea of a pre filter does sound like a good idea. I'm suprised the factory didn't fit one as standard, if they are sensitive to these problems.
The pumps can cope with quite surprsingly large amount of debris going through them but the thing that will kill them quicker than that is a blockage in the fuel line that prevents fuel getting in and cooling/lubricating the pump. They then overheat and die.
I would double check that you haven't got a kinked pipe from the tank.
>> Edited by shpub on Monday 22 August 13:03
I would double check that you haven't got a kinked pipe from the tank.
>> Edited by shpub on Monday 22 August 13:03
I reacon that might be what has happened then Steve. If the purge system isn't working properly, causing the flow to be reduced due to the vacuum in the tank being excessive, that would cause a reduction in the fuel flow! Then the pump overheating and seizing would perhaps be the result? What do you think?
Th pump can generate quite high vaccuum as it sucks air out. Enough to start bending the tank which is why it has inserts - well they also help with surge.
It could be the problem but to be honest I would still go for a kniked hose which is then collapsing and sealing under the demands from the pump.
It could be the problem but to be honest I would still go for a kniked hose which is then collapsing and sealing under the demands from the pump.
Well after a week of sorting out the problems, I think it's fixed.
I inspected the Lucas pump which has a small filter in the inlet, and some more bits were present.
So, out with the tank, I then flushed it through with petrol and solvent until I was happy it was clean. The pre filter had a slight tear in it which probably accounted for some of the problem. I have put a new pre filter on along with a new main filter and of course a new Bosch pump.
The carbon canister device has been disconnected and the tank now vents to air. On the engine end I machined a new plug to replace the original tube. I have run the engine and it sound just so and the pump makes a healthy hum.
I have also been able to finish off some of the small jobs I wouldn't have been able to complete beforwe the Growl, so this afternoon we are off to a BBQ
which is about 3 miles away. I will then inspect the pump again before setting off on a more adventurous trip. Cross you fingers!!
I inspected the Lucas pump which has a small filter in the inlet, and some more bits were present.
So, out with the tank, I then flushed it through with petrol and solvent until I was happy it was clean. The pre filter had a slight tear in it which probably accounted for some of the problem. I have put a new pre filter on along with a new main filter and of course a new Bosch pump.
The carbon canister device has been disconnected and the tank now vents to air. On the engine end I machined a new plug to replace the original tube. I have run the engine and it sound just so and the pump makes a healthy hum.
I have also been able to finish off some of the small jobs I wouldn't have been able to complete beforwe the Growl, so this afternoon we are off to a BBQ
which is about 3 miles away. I will then inspect the pump again before setting off on a more adventurous trip. Cross you fingers!!Gassing Station | Griffith | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff