Ticking engine etc etc

[gingerprince]

Engine is sounding "tappety", has been for a while. Don't know if it's got worse or whether I've just got more annoyed with it, you know how it is when you have these things day in day out.

Anyhow, originally thought "oh it's an old style engine they're probably supposed to be like that" but now not sure.

Anyhow, it's nice and quiet when cold and gets "clickier" when warm. So, could this just be an oil thing given that oil gets thinner when hotter (garage I use puts castrol gtx in), or is this the kinda symptom of a worn cam etc? Car has done 56k.

If its any help the sound does "seem" to be from within the vee (which is where the cam is, is it not?) rather than "up top".

>> Edited by gingerprince on Sunday 2nd October 12:05

[torquemada]

I have similar noise on my 63k Griff - general consensus seems to be that it is most likely to be worn cam given the mileage. As it's otherwise running fine I have yet to do anything about it. Quoted around £800 for standard cam and fitting.

[Ballistic Banana]

Its always hard to describe a noise in words Are sure its not the manifold Gasket as this makes a ticking noise and wont allways do it while cold but will when it warms up.. Just another one to cross of the list even though it will be the easiest one to repair if it is the Gasket
I imagine the old Screwdriver to ear stethoscope method might help pinpoint wher the noise is coming from a bit better.

BB

[hut49]

Might be just noisey valve gear. Replacement rocker arms fixed my 'lightly' tapping noise.

[gingerprince]

torquemada said:

I have similar noise on my 63k Griff - general consensus seems to be that it is most likely to be worn cam given the mileage. As it's otherwise running fine I have yet to do anything about it. Quoted around £800 for standard cam and fitting.

Ouch, could hurt my wallet then. Does that include replacing "other" bits as I understand that replacing "just" the cam is inadvisable as it means other bits are weaker and wear as a concequence.

Ballistic Banana said:

Its always hard to describe a noise in words Are sure its not the manifold Gasket as this makes a ticking noise and wont allways do it while cold but will when it warms up....I imagine the old Screwdriver to ear stethoscope method might help pinpoint wher the noise is coming from a bit better. BB

It's definately not the gasket, I already had the problem last year Will have a go at the screwdriver thing but I do think it's in the vee.

hut49 said:

Might be just noisey valve gear. Replacement rocker arms fixed my 'lightly' tapping noise.

Guess it's impossible to tell until it's been taken apart. Wallet time methinx.

[howardm]

My griff 500 (1997) 19,000miles developed a ticking noise about four months ago.Okay on tickover and only apparent on blipping the throttle and as the rev`s settle it sounds like gravel in a bucket.Apart from this no problem and no loss of power .Top end was overalled which solved the problem for a month or two then reappeared .This thread has been discussed before in march/april.It seems the 500 engine has aweaknes in relation to the vernier chain which stretches and allows the cam to move too much ;I think they call it cam walk.I`m told this is because there is no retaining plate for the cam and which was fitted to the other v 8 `s.The problem is being sorted this week ,at least I hope.I will let peole know the out come next week.

[IPAddis]

howardm said:

My griff 500 (1997) 19,000miles developed a ticking noise about four months ago.Okay on tickover and only apparent on blipping the throttle and as the rev`s settle it sounds like gravel in a bucket.Apart from this no problem and no loss of power .Top end was overalled which solved the problem for a month or two then reappeared .This thread has been discussed before in march/april.It seems the 500 engine has aweaknes in relation to the vernier chain which stretches and allows the cam to move too much ;I think they call it cam walk.I`m told this is because there is no retaining plate for the cam and which was fitted to the other v 8 `s.The problem is being sorted this week ,at least I hope.I will let peole know the out come next week.

This was only solved on my car by fitting a cam WITH a retaining plate. Even then, you can still hear it pushing against the plate when the revs die.

Ian A.

[macdeb]

howardm said:

My griff 500 (1997) 19,000miles developed a ticking noise about four months ago.Okay on tickover and only apparent on blipping the throttle and as the rev`s settle it sounds like gravel in a bucket.Apart from this no problem and no loss of power .Top end was overalled which solved the problem for a month or two then reappeared .This thread has been discussed before in march/april.It seems the 500 engine has aweaknes in relation to the vernier chain which stretches and allows the cam to move too much ;I think they call it cam walk.I`m told this is because there is no retaining plate for the cam and which was fitted to the other v 8 `s.The problem is being sorted this week ,at least I hope.I will let peole know the out come next week.

Had exact problem once with Griff' 500. Changed lifters [twice] new cam, already had retaining plate, new timing gear, rockers and shafts. Still had the noise. What was constant was the fact that couldn't get preload on lifters between the correct tolerances across both heads [though one side worse]. Did notice however that valve heights in the heads were different [quite noticeably] so I concluded that because of this it was impossible to get correct preload as you have to raise/lower rocker shafts along the whole length with inserts of different thickness. Some lifters were not able to cope with taking up gaps and noise appears. So, problem is lifters but just replacing them will not cure it.I think [only my opinion] that the valves have to be re-seated in the heads or cam change with mechanical lifters that are adjustable.
hope it helps.

>> Edited by macdeb on Thursday 6th October 15:45

[David H]

macdeb said:

howardm said: My griff 500 (1997) 19,000miles developed a ticking noise about four months ago.Okay on tickover and only apparent on blipping the throttle and as the rev`s settle it sounds like gravel in a bucket.Apart from this no problem and no loss of power .Top end was overalled which solved the problem for a month or two then reappeared .This thread has been discussed before in march/april.It seems the 500 engine has aweaknes in relation to the vernier chain which stretches and allows the cam to move too much ;I think they call it cam walk.I`m told this is because there is no retaining plate for the cam and which was fitted to the other v 8 `s.The problem is being sorted this week ,at least I hope.I will let peole know the out come next week. Had exact problem once with Griff' 500. Changed lifters [twice] new cam, already had retaining plate, new timing gear, rockers and shafts. Still had the noise. What was constant was the fact that couldn't get preload on lifters between the correct tolerances across both heads [though one side worse]. Did notice however that valve heights in the heads were different [quite noticeably] so I concluded that because of this it was impossible to get correct preload as you have to raise/lower rocker shafts along the whole length with inserts of different thickness. Some lifters were not able to cope with taking up gaps and noise appears. So, problem is lifters but just replacing them will not cure it.I think [only my opinion] that the valves have to be re-seated in the heads or cam change with mechanical lifters that are adjustable. hope it helps. >> Edited by macdeb on Thursday 6th October 15:45

Could you not have just bought adjustable pushrods?

[macdeb]

David H said:

macdeb said: howardm said: My griff 500 (1997) 19,000miles developed a ticking noise about four months ago.Okay on tickover and only apparent on blipping the throttle and as the rev`s settle it sounds like gravel in a bucket.Apart from this no problem and no loss of power .Top end was overalled which solved the problem for a month or two then reappeared .This thread has been discussed before in march/april.It seems the 500 engine has aweaknes in relation to the vernier chain which stretches and allows the cam to move too much ;I think they call it cam walk.I`m told this is because there is no retaining plate for the cam and which was fitted to the other v 8 `s.The problem is being sorted this week ,at least I hope.I will let peole know the out come next week. Had exact problem once with Griff' 500. Changed lifters [twice] new cam, already had retaining plate, new timing gear, rockers and shafts. Still had the noise. What was constant was the fact that couldn't get preload on lifters between the correct tolerances across both heads [though one side worse]. Did notice however that valve heights in the heads were different [quite noticeably] so I concluded that because of this it was impossible to get correct preload as you have to raise/lower rocker shafts along the whole length with inserts of different thickness. Some lifters were not able to cope with taking up gaps and noise appears. So, problem is lifters but just replacing them will not cure it.I think [only my opinion] that the valves have to be re-seated in the heads or cam change with mechanical lifters that are adjustable. hope it helps. >> Edited by macdeb on Thursday 6th October 15:45 Could you not have just bought adjustable pushrods?

Sorry, didn't make myself very clear, Mech' lifters with adjustable push rods. Cheers.

[eddie123]

coming at this from another angle if the noise seems to be coming from the Vee have you tried depressing the clutch? does the noise go away? if so it could be sloppy gearbox input shaft bearings

[shadowfax]

Point is, does it damage the motor? My mech said it isn't pathological, and using a thicker oil can help.

[eddie123]

I had a ticking tappet and had rockers arms rocker shafts, cam followers, new cam, new camshaft chain and sprockets replaced. The new camshaft had almost 5mm of front to back float before fitting the chain. As this float was on the limit of tolerance I was advised to have a camshaft retaining plate fitted to constrain it. The retaining plate is simply a plate, not a thrust bearing so in essence it is quite a crude piece of engineering. (in many engines the camshaft float is restrained by the chain). After a thousand miles I replaced the oil with something a little thicker as there was still some (just) discernable ticking which was thought to be the hydraulic lifters struggling with the thin 0w oil. I have now completed about 1500 miles and am now hearing quite a noticeable rattle on engine over-run after blipping the throttle. My guess is that as the new chain has now bedded in, the camshaft is rattling against the retaining plate, and I am going to live with it as it cannot cause any harm in my opinion.

[shadowfax]

I remember what he told me now: cam followers. Whatever they are. They're the source of the noise. Little 'didlidlidlidlidl' on the end of the overrun after blipping. Blimey. I have enough dosh for a service twice a year, yet alone other things