Discussion
Chaps - I know that 340bhp is generally wildly optimistic for a standard RV8 500; but how down on power and performance are Griff 500s anyway?
I ask because, as a diehard TVR fan I am thinking of a Griff - however, the Z3M Roadster (or even coupe) are alternatives - and I know that these are very quick cars (Coupe pulls 0-60 in a tried and tested 4.9 seconds, and is pretty hard charging in the gears too). Would a Griff see it off in a straight line (seriously - no posturing
).
I realise that outright acceleration isn't the be all and end all - but I know TVRs can be unpredictable in terms of power (I know of V8S', supposedly making 240bhp, that barely make more than a strong V6 at about 180bhp). If looking for a Griff 500, what should my expectations really be like? And what sort of of punch will a well-done 4.3 BV conversion have (I wouldn't mind one of these - a good one seems to be the same price as a ropey 500...)
Help!
I ask because, as a diehard TVR fan I am thinking of a Griff - however, the Z3M Roadster (or even coupe) are alternatives - and I know that these are very quick cars (Coupe pulls 0-60 in a tried and tested 4.9 seconds, and is pretty hard charging in the gears too). Would a Griff see it off in a straight line (seriously - no posturing
). I realise that outright acceleration isn't the be all and end all - but I know TVRs can be unpredictable in terms of power (I know of V8S', supposedly making 240bhp, that barely make more than a strong V6 at about 180bhp). If looking for a Griff 500, what should my expectations really be like? And what sort of of punch will a well-done 4.3 BV conversion have (I wouldn't mind one of these - a good one seems to be the same price as a ropey 500...)
Help!
Harry, have seen a TVR 500 dyno graph, think it was V8 developments with peak power about 280bhp. This was at only 5500 revs though, the lack of bhp seems to be at the top end. Upgrading intake parts would no doubt help claim this reduction back...
Even with such a reduction Griff would still be a couple of seconds quicker to 100mph.
Depends on what you want though. BMW M is excellent car, but ultimately - its like a toaster, a mass produced machine, an appliance
4.3BV are right at the top of classic V8 TVR's.
Even with such a reduction Griff would still be a couple of seconds quicker to 100mph.
Depends on what you want though. BMW M is excellent car, but ultimately - its like a toaster, a mass produced machine, an appliance
4.3BV are right at the top of classic V8 TVR's.
Think the Griff has been roadtested at about 4.8secs 0-60 so nothing in it.I think if you bought a BMW Z3 and someone took you for a spin in a Griff you would wish you had bought a TVR.If you bought a TVR and then someone took you out in a Z3 you would sit back and smile to yourself knowing that you had made the right decision .No contest.
I don't know how many variants of Z3M there are, or how far they have evolved over the years, but the one I sprinted against back on 2000 was slightly slower than my V8S (which was fairly standard at the time). A Griffith 500 has a substantial power advantage over the 4.0 V8S and is significantly quicker in a straight line, so I'd have thought that a well driven Griffith 500 would wipe the floor with a similarly driven Z3M. I suspect the driver aids in the Z3M would give a significant advantage for a less experienced driver though.
Actually, 4.8 seconds 0-60 was the slowest time recorded for the Griff 500 by a magazine at the time of launch. Autocar achieved 4.2 seconds and Fast lane recorded 4.3 seconds. Also, on a memorable episode of Top Gear, Jeremy and Tiff drag raced a Chimaera 500 against a Z3M and the TVR pulled away quite easily. While it is generally accepted that the RV8 engine rarely puts out the amount of power TVR claimed, it also seems to be the case that BMW "M" power cars struggle to get near their official power outputs as well. This, I believe, is particularly the case with the M3 which, of course, shares its engine with the Z3M. In any case, the most relevant statistic governing acceleration (at least below 100mph) is the torque to weight ratio which the Griff wins hands down.
I hill climb a fairly standard Griff 500 against a Z3m. The Z3 driver if far more experienced than me and we are usually very evenly matched. At the last event he beat me by 0.08 second. He is quicker in the twisty bits but I am Much faster on the straight uphill part where the torque is important. I recon with a competent driver ( not me) the Griff would be a lot quicker.
Hi Harry,
I have a Griff and a friend has a Z3M Coupe, I actually nearly bought a BM myself before the Griff, but I didnt fit in it (I am 6ft 4). And as it turns out, I prefer having a weekend rocket and an everyday 'run about'.
They are totally different cars, If it is your only car and an everyday driver I would go for the BM, if a weekend 'special' deffo the Griff. Performance wise, the Griff is quicker. The BM as expected is a lot more refined, and will be more reliable, not that the Griff is unreliable but it is an enthusiasts car and you have to 'check', things regularly. The BM, I am sure you wouldnt even have to open the bonnet between services.
At the end of the day, I think it depends on what you want the car for and what you want out of the car!!
Have a spin in both and then decide.?!!
Also - a friend has a 4.3BV and there is very little difference between my 500.!
My advice would be to buy an older griff that has history and is in good order and budget to spend 3k on it to get it totally sorted.
Lig.
>> Edited by lig on Thursday 10th November 09:32
>> Edited by lig on Thursday 10th November 09:34
I have a Griff and a friend has a Z3M Coupe, I actually nearly bought a BM myself before the Griff, but I didnt fit in it (I am 6ft 4). And as it turns out, I prefer having a weekend rocket and an everyday 'run about'.
They are totally different cars, If it is your only car and an everyday driver I would go for the BM, if a weekend 'special' deffo the Griff. Performance wise, the Griff is quicker. The BM as expected is a lot more refined, and will be more reliable, not that the Griff is unreliable but it is an enthusiasts car and you have to 'check', things regularly. The BM, I am sure you wouldnt even have to open the bonnet between services.
At the end of the day, I think it depends on what you want the car for and what you want out of the car!!
Have a spin in both and then decide.?!!
Also - a friend has a 4.3BV and there is very little difference between my 500.!
My advice would be to buy an older griff that has history and is in good order and budget to spend 3k on it to get it totally sorted.
Lig.
>> Edited by lig on Thursday 10th November 09:32
>> Edited by lig on Thursday 10th November 09:34
Cheers Chris - may well take you up on the offer!
Thanks for all your input guys; I hear you on the power thing. I won't labour the point as I had a Z3M vs Griff thread a while back (I'm trying to decide between the two for a spring purchase). I really want to swap my 2 cars for just the one - and the Z3M is better for this. However - I hadn't factored in the horrific insurance costs; Griff on classic insurance so much cheaper than Z3 on normal insurance...
So it's still all up in the air.
Would prefer a car that didn't require tinkering though - living in London with no garage, it's just not how I want to spend my weekends anymore...
But I saw a Halcyon blue Griff on the way into work this morning, and fell in love again.
AAARGH!
Thanks for all your input guys; I hear you on the power thing. I won't labour the point as I had a Z3M vs Griff thread a while back (I'm trying to decide between the two for a spring purchase). I really want to swap my 2 cars for just the one - and the Z3M is better for this. However - I hadn't factored in the horrific insurance costs; Griff on classic insurance so much cheaper than Z3 on normal insurance...
So it's still all up in the air.
Would prefer a car that didn't require tinkering though - living in London with no garage, it's just not how I want to spend my weekends anymore...
But I saw a Halcyon blue Griff on the way into work this morning, and fell in love again.
AAARGH!
About the comparisons with the Z3M. In my Griff 500 I raced an M Coupe at bruntingthorpe from a standing start, down the main strip, and although I was expecting it to be close, I absolutely left if for dead! I quite like them actually but after seeing the difference in performance I don't think I'd buy one. nice cars though but not anything like the Griff.
Wildfire said:
Hmmm... so you're planning on selling the 2 cars, possibly the Z3M may be a better option. I've always liked them. Mind you Podie drives his 4.5 Chim as an every day car. If you get a good Griff, regular services etc. You shouldn't have a problem.
It will have to live outdoors.
TVRs hate the great outdoors.
lazyitus said:
But I saw a Halcyon blue Griff on the way into work this morning, and fell in love again.
AAARGH!
That feeling won't go away, Harry.
Just buy a Griff and get on with your life.
unrequited love is a terrible thing.
But so is having to send your girlfriend in for surgery every few weeks because something's fallen off her (witness my love-hate relationship with my S2)
Harry Flashman said:
Hmmm... so you're planning on selling the 2 cars, possibly the Z3M may be a better option. I've always liked them. Mind you Podie drives his 4.5 Chim as an every day car. If you get a good Griff, regular services etc. You shouldn't have a problem.
It will have to live outdoors.
TVRs hate the great outdoors.
No that's not true, my S3 lived outside for 2 years, in the North East and it was fine. Started everyday, ran every day. my Griff is currently living out doors due to the fact that one of my minis is minus it's rear suspension and on axel stands in my garage. Quite a few Griffs live outside. Just =make sure you get/do a good chassis prep and cover it in some Tectyl or similar. Get the chassis check ed each year, hose the salt off in the winter. Easy.
Harry,
I'm a bit late on this thread, but I'm pleased to see you haven't seen sense and gone for the Z3M as you were seeming to lean towards in your previous thread.
The allure of the Griff that bit too strong eh?
FWIW, comparing a M3 Coupe (not the same I know) against my Griff 500, subjectively both drivers felt that the Griffith was the faster of the two cars, away from the line and in-gear up to well any reasonable speed you care to mention. You wouldn't want to make a hash of your gear changes or get the revs wrong by much though for things to even out a bit. It's easier to drive the BM fast than to do the same in the TVR as you'd expect.
In real life driving though the Griffith is in reality more than fast enough, in fact more than terrifying enough if you want it to be. Aside from the odd sprint away from the lights the biggest impediment for the Griffith is all drivers aids you don't have (as Green V8S points out above), any resonably competent Z3M driver should go faster than a similarly piloted Griff over anything other than a drag race. But that's not the point it's still fast enough and then some and of course how many times will you acutually need to square up to a Z3M in combat?
Cheers
John.
I'm a bit late on this thread, but I'm pleased to see you haven't seen sense and gone for the Z3M as you were seeming to lean towards in your previous thread.
The allure of the Griff that bit too strong eh?
FWIW, comparing a M3 Coupe (not the same I know) against my Griff 500, subjectively both drivers felt that the Griffith was the faster of the two cars, away from the line and in-gear up to well any reasonable speed you care to mention. You wouldn't want to make a hash of your gear changes or get the revs wrong by much though for things to even out a bit. It's easier to drive the BM fast than to do the same in the TVR as you'd expect.
In real life driving though the Griffith is in reality more than fast enough, in fact more than terrifying enough if you want it to be. Aside from the odd sprint away from the lights the biggest impediment for the Griffith is all drivers aids you don't have (as Green V8S points out above), any resonably competent Z3M driver should go faster than a similarly piloted Griff over anything other than a drag race. But that's not the point it's still fast enough and then some and of course how many times will you acutually need to square up to a Z3M in combat?
Cheers
John.
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