Advice for mounting of Wilwood calipers

[The Moosehunter]

Hi

I am after fellow brake converters input please.

Have just tried initial assembly with 283mm Cossie discs on my 92 Griff. Making a mounting plate should be fairly simple as the calipers and hubs appear to be on the same plain. What thickness gauge plate have people used. I am intending on using Aluminium to keep the weight down, probably 8mm.






One problem being the bottom mounting lug of the upright fouls the caliper body. I can probably grind back enough of the metal to make fit without risking taking too much off as it's not too far out (about 3mm). But just thought I'd consult those that may have been there first, before jumping in.





I was planning on using 10mm bolts with aircraft style split nuts to secure plate to upright and caliper to plate as both do not have any threading at present. Any thoughts ?

They certainly look a little more purposeful and can't wait to try them out.



Cheers for any thoughts / tips

Andy

Apologies for those who may have stumbled across this topic elsewhere. Going for maximum coverage



>> Edited by The Moosehunter on Thursday 17th November 02:30

[shpub]

I'm sorry but this conversion simply doesn't work for me. I would not grind the upright as it seriously weakens that mount and I suspect you will have to remove more than 3 mm. The insurance companies won't like it for a start. IIRC that configuration also fouls the suspension on full lock so that is something else to check.

8mm ally is too thin as well. At least 12 mm should be used.

I have wilwoods/285 mm discs but I use the wider disc version of the calliper as the narrow version didn't fit despite playing with different disc offsets.

[GreenV8S]

I agree with Steve. Personally I'd prefer to see at least 16mm for an alloy adapter. I'd also change the offset so the caliper sits inboard of the upright to stop them fouling, and move the caliper up above the line of the bottom wishbone.

[The Moosehunter]

shpub said:

I'm sorry but this conversion simply doesn't work for me. I would not grind the upright as it seriously weakens that mount and I suspect you will have to remove more than 3 mm. The insurance companies won't like it for a start. IIRC that configuration also fouls the suspension on full lock so that is something else to check. 8mm ally is too thin as well. At least 12 mm should be used. I have wilwoods/285 mm discs but I use the wider disc version of the calliper as the narrow version didn't fit despite playing with different disc offsets.

Cheers for your comments

Obviously would prefer not to take any metal off the mount and had thought of trying 300mm discs to avoid this issue. Are there any readilly available 300/24mm discs with the same offset ?

It really doesnt need much off as this photo shows, and its slightly less when not hanging on lockwire for photo purposes




Point taken about the 12mm plate. Cheers

In this location it does not foul the lower wishbone when jacked up, not sure yet if this changes once compressed. Will obviously check before progressing any further.

I cannot move the caliper up as it fouls the top of the upright as this photo should illustrate



Am I the only one with narrow superlites on old uprights ? Could do with knowing of any other approaches

Andy

[shpub]

300 mm discs isn't a real option as you need a special offset to get them and the callipers to fit inside the wheel.
I'm not sure if you have checked the clearance on full lock with the suspension compressed and on full droop but that will be a killer.

[The Moosehunter]

shpub said:

300 mm discs isn't a real option as you need a special offset to get them and the callipers to fit inside the wheel. I'm not sure if you have checked the clearance on full lock with the suspension compressed and on full droop but that will be a killer.

I made 2mm ali templates to mount solidly and check tolerances etc

Tried on full lock compressed and full droop seems to be a constant 5mm gap between caliper and lower wishbone.

Only mods required were to file off level the casting imperfections on the upright and re-shaped the excess casting on the caliper a little. ( So little taken off it will have negligable effect to strength)

Wheels fits with 10mm clearance

16mm ali plate sourced, and now just needs cutting and tapping and new braided brake lines made to finish the kit.

Bolts seem to be M10 thread. Anybody any idea as to what spec are they. Just high tensile or something fancier ?

Photos of templated setup are available now and finished set up (assuming everything works as expected) can be sent to those who may be interested.

Cheers

Andy

[shpub]

Keep an eye on that 5 mm gap as it is not uncommon to find that sort of clearance is very marginal in real life due to movements in the suspension bushes once they get loaded.

The bolts should be high tensile. Wilwood use imperial BTW.

[The Moosehunter]

Cheers Steve

Your point about clearances closing up is my main cause for concern.

However, I was trying to think of instances when my suspension was on full lock when under load. I think things will have already gone past the point of relying on brakes at that point

Whilst scanning for recommened Wilwood pads I noticed that there is another Wilwood set up about, whose calipers sit in about the same place as mine. I wonder how they get on with their clearances. (Quinny then Starmist have owned it)

Can you recommend the best pads to use for fast road and hard track days. Getting Black Diamond 12 groove discs

Andy





>> Edited by The Moosehunter on Monday 21st November 14:35

[shpub]

I would go for Ferodo DS2000. Excellent pad.

The problem is that with 5 mm clearance, you can get that sort of movement under load and not necessarily under full lock.
It is something to watch out for. Personally, it is too close for comfort especially as it is a safety critical function.

I'm not sure how your insurers would react to it!

[The Moosehunter]

Your learned comments are appreciated

Getting 5mm of movement when not on full lock should not be a problem as the caliper will not be near any obstacles

As its always going to be the rearward lower wishbone that gets closest to the caliper, If my understanding is correct, the forces on the wheel will always be acting away from the wishbone (assuming you are running with some positive castor angle). As the friction of the tyre during braking or loss of traction will be trying to roll the tyre to the outside of the rim and as such away from the wishbone.
It would be the foreward lower wishbone that stood most chance of being fouled.

I will be keeping a very close eye on it just in case. If the insurance company were happy to insure me with the pitiful 240mm's I had, then these should be a vast improvement. Point noted though.

Any links to best price Ferrodo stocksts ?



>> Edited by The Moosehunter on Monday 21st November 23:52

>> Edited by The Moosehunter on Monday 21st November 23:54

[shpub]

I haven't bought pads for some time as I bought a whole stack of them in a close down sale.
Tower View certainly sell them.

[The Moosehunter]

Well it took three months but here's the result

BEFORE



AFTER



Stripped and repainted (POR 15) wishbones, Powerflex Bushes, 285 mm Tarox grooved discs, Wilwood Calipers and fast road / track pads and Goodridge hoses

Had enough for this year, looking for a track day in a few months to try them out properly.

All fitted OK in the end, no signs of any fouling on lock. Plenty of gap between caliper and wheel

Rear gets the treatment next year (maybe)

Cheers

Andy




>> Edited by The Moosehunter on Sunday 12th February 16:56

[Equinox]

Guessing the mounting problems caused the "Fault" with the un-named discs then, the pad in contact with the disc overheated the disc and cracked it??

[GreenV8S]

Next time you're going for discs, consider going for 6 gooves rather than 40. All the extra grooves are doing is creating noise/wear, reducing the pad contact area and increasing the number of stressed points on the disc.

[David H]

Looking good Andy, top marks for doing something different

How do they feel?

[The Moosehunter]

Equinox said:

Guessing the mounting problems caused the "Fault" with the un-named discs then, the pad in contact with the disc overheated the disc and cracked it??

I am afraid that I have to disagree with you on this point

The disc was perfectly centred between the caliper, and all pistons are free. There was no "blueing" of the disc that you would associate with too much heat, which indeed would cause the failure you mentioned. However non-binding brakes used gently for 10 miles in the wet with intermitent braking would not cause this, and I stand by my warning to others.

I was given these Tarox disc's in direct replacement for the Un-named failed discs and have made no set up changes at all, only doulble checked the clearances, and after 500 miles they are performing admirably. It has been on the MOT rollers since and braking effort is equal on both sides

GreenV8S said:

Next time you're going for discs, consider going for 6 gooves rather than 40. All the extra grooves are doing is creating noise/wear, reducing the pad contact area and increasing the number of stressed points on the disc.

Hi Peter

These were free issue replacements, I do take on board your very valid point however, and will keep a very close eye on them. Especially with my earlier experience. I am hoping with these discs that were valued at about 50% more, you get what you pay for.

I am also hoping that the cracking issues are with the smaller discs (240's 260's) that would generate more heat than these 285's, thus less risk of cracking.

David H said:

Looking good Andy, top marks for doing something different How do they feel?

Cheers David nice to get some appreciation for those that wish to do something that varies from an off the shelf upgrade. Not that there's anything wrong with that as an option.

It's nice to have done all the work myself, and I am very pleased with the end result, it's a bit to early to tell the full effect as I have not pushed it to hard yet (just in case). I did pull her down from 130 - 0(KPH honest) in the wet at the weekend and was astomished at the difference, even though the tyre contact patch is the same.

It feels like you could lock them up at any speed

Bring on the Track Day

Cheers

Andy

>> Edited by The Moosehunter on Tuesday 14th February 12:27