Non starting Griff any advise appreciated
Discussion
'92 Griff 4.0
I'll try and keep it short.
It turns over well, but doesn't burst into life.
If you take the fuel pipe off the back of the engine, its getting plenty of fuel.
It has a spark, but its not the strongest spark I have ever seen.
It has just had new coil, rotor arm, ditributer cap, HT leads, spark plug shrouds, and ignition amplifier.
Since these were fitted it has run ( very well ) but now won't start again. I didn't replace the plugs themselfs as they are only 1500 miles old and look OK.
All the immobiliser / alarms etc ( that I know of ) appear to be working normaly.
There are two relays in the footwell with red diaganal marks on them which I believe ( please correct me if I am wrong ) control the fuel injection. These can both be felt to click when the ignition is turned on or off, so I think they are OK.
I have tried unplugging and re connection the ECU.
I am begining to think air flow meter or ECU? I will probably phone Mark Adams during next week to see if I can send these to him to test them.
However, is there anything else I should check first?
Any fuses I should be checking?
I'll try and keep it short.
It turns over well, but doesn't burst into life.
If you take the fuel pipe off the back of the engine, its getting plenty of fuel.
It has a spark, but its not the strongest spark I have ever seen.
It has just had new coil, rotor arm, ditributer cap, HT leads, spark plug shrouds, and ignition amplifier.
Since these were fitted it has run ( very well ) but now won't start again. I didn't replace the plugs themselfs as they are only 1500 miles old and look OK.
All the immobiliser / alarms etc ( that I know of ) appear to be working normaly.
There are two relays in the footwell with red diaganal marks on them which I believe ( please correct me if I am wrong ) control the fuel injection. These can both be felt to click when the ignition is turned on or off, so I think they are OK.
I have tried unplugging and re connection the ECU.
I am begining to think air flow meter or ECU? I will probably phone Mark Adams during next week to see if I can send these to him to test them.
However, is there anything else I should check first?
Any fuses I should be checking?
There's no magic fix, do you want to diagnose it yourself? If so the first job is to pull the plugs out to see whether they're wet, this tells you whether it is a fuel or ignition problem. Are you sure the replacement parts are all the correct spec? For example if you fit the wrong coil it can produce a weak spark, it may run but will be susceptable to problems.
That's good news. The ignition system is very simple and doesn't depend on the ECU and all the associated complexity. Do you have a strobe light? Active or passive? You can get HT test lamps which go in series with a HT lead and flash each time you get a spark, these are very useful. A passive strobe is even better in some ways as you can move the light around more but of course you can only see what is happening on one lead. If you're going to investigate this yourself I suggest you go get a spare set of plugs (NGK B7ECS) and see if you can pick up a set of HT test lamps, also get/make a 12v test lamp. Can you charge the battery up? It's going to be much harder to start up if the battery is going flat.
Fault codes are quite specific and may help pin down ignition faults.
Here is the list - see for yourself.
02 Live feed to ECU has been interrupted Normal if ECU has been disconnected to clear old fault codes. Code 02 will clear if ignition turned off for 30 secs then on again.
03 Stored data corrupted since last trip No useful information available. Test drive and try again.
12 Airflow meter out of range Possible air leak or wiring fault.
14 Coolant thermistor out of range Faulty sensor or wiring.
15 Fuel thermistor out of range Faulty sensor or wiring.
17 Throttle sensor out of range Sensor needs adjustment or is faulty or has wiring fault. This can cause low speed misfires
18 Throttle sensor output too high when air flow low Large air leak between throttle butterfly and A/F meter or faulty throttle sensor or A/F meter.
19 Throttle sensor output too low when airflow high Faulty A/F meter or throttle sensor.
21 Tune resistor out of range Check tune resistor resistance.
23 Low fuel pressure Blocked fuel filter or faulty pump or pressure regulator. Valid for cat cars only.
25 Misfire at full load Faulty plugs, leads, electronic ignition unit, distributor or coil, low fuel pressure or valve or head gasket leak. See 40 and 50. Valid for cat cars only.
28 Air leak Leak in A/F meter hoses, injector seals, inlet manifold gasket, plenum gasket, servo or crankcase vent hoses or Lambda sensors. Valid for cat cars only.
29 Checksum error The ECU is f****d.
34 Fuelling fault in nearside injector bank Injector or Lambda sensor wiring fault, faulty injectors, air leak at injector seals or inlet mainfold, blocked injectors. Valid for cat cars only.
36 Fuelling fault in offside injector bank As above but for cylinders 2-4-6-8 only. Valid for cat cars only.
40 Misfire on nearside bank As 25 but for cyclinders 1-3-5-7 only. Valid for cat cars only.
44 Nearside Lambda sensor out of range Faulty or lead-poisoned sensor or sensor wiring fault. Valid for cat cars only.
45 Offside Lambda sensor out of range As above. Valid for cat cars only.
48 Stepper motor fully open above 500 rpm or fully closed above 750 rpm Sticking stepper valve, incorrect base idle speed adjustment, air leak on non-cat cars, incorrect stepper motor adjustment, incorrect throttle butterfly adjustment, rough running because of fuel or ignition or mechanical faults.
50 Misfire on offside bank A 25 but for cylinders 2-4-6-8 only. Valid for cat cars only.
59 ECU unable to distinguish between faults 23 and 28 Fault occurred for insufficient time for ECU to diagnose.
68 Road speed sensor output too low at medium rpm and high air flow Possible sensor or wiring fault (will also cause wrong speedo readings on electrical speedo cars). Valid for cat cars only.
88 Power-up check Not a fault. Sometimes displayed on first connecting test module.
Here is the list - see for yourself.
02 Live feed to ECU has been interrupted Normal if ECU has been disconnected to clear old fault codes. Code 02 will clear if ignition turned off for 30 secs then on again.
03 Stored data corrupted since last trip No useful information available. Test drive and try again.
12 Airflow meter out of range Possible air leak or wiring fault.
14 Coolant thermistor out of range Faulty sensor or wiring.
15 Fuel thermistor out of range Faulty sensor or wiring.
17 Throttle sensor out of range Sensor needs adjustment or is faulty or has wiring fault. This can cause low speed misfires
18 Throttle sensor output too high when air flow low Large air leak between throttle butterfly and A/F meter or faulty throttle sensor or A/F meter.
19 Throttle sensor output too low when airflow high Faulty A/F meter or throttle sensor.
21 Tune resistor out of range Check tune resistor resistance.
23 Low fuel pressure Blocked fuel filter or faulty pump or pressure regulator. Valid for cat cars only.
25 Misfire at full load Faulty plugs, leads, electronic ignition unit, distributor or coil, low fuel pressure or valve or head gasket leak. See 40 and 50. Valid for cat cars only.
28 Air leak Leak in A/F meter hoses, injector seals, inlet manifold gasket, plenum gasket, servo or crankcase vent hoses or Lambda sensors. Valid for cat cars only.
29 Checksum error The ECU is f****d.
34 Fuelling fault in nearside injector bank Injector or Lambda sensor wiring fault, faulty injectors, air leak at injector seals or inlet mainfold, blocked injectors. Valid for cat cars only.
36 Fuelling fault in offside injector bank As above but for cylinders 2-4-6-8 only. Valid for cat cars only.
40 Misfire on nearside bank As 25 but for cyclinders 1-3-5-7 only. Valid for cat cars only.
44 Nearside Lambda sensor out of range Faulty or lead-poisoned sensor or sensor wiring fault. Valid for cat cars only.
45 Offside Lambda sensor out of range As above. Valid for cat cars only.
48 Stepper motor fully open above 500 rpm or fully closed above 750 rpm Sticking stepper valve, incorrect base idle speed adjustment, air leak on non-cat cars, incorrect stepper motor adjustment, incorrect throttle butterfly adjustment, rough running because of fuel or ignition or mechanical faults.
50 Misfire on offside bank A 25 but for cylinders 2-4-6-8 only. Valid for cat cars only.
59 ECU unable to distinguish between faults 23 and 28 Fault occurred for insufficient time for ECU to diagnose.
68 Road speed sensor output too low at medium rpm and high air flow Possible sensor or wiring fault (will also cause wrong speedo readings on electrical speedo cars). Valid for cat cars only.
88 Power-up check Not a fault. Sometimes displayed on first connecting test module.
I don't have a strobe, but have been meaning to buy one for a while, so now could be the moment.
Would the local auto factor have a HT test lamp, or does someone do a mail order one?
I do have a 12V test light.
The battery was on charge last night.
Out of interest, what is the reason for the second set of plugs? The ones in there are NGK.
I had another play with it earlier.
The spark seems to be intermitent. As the engine turns over, there is a weak spark for a few seconds, then nothing for a few seconds, then a weak spark again etc. The plugs are definately getting wet.
Also out of interest, how much is the fault code reader to hire?
>> Edited by BIG DUNC on Sunday 5th March 20:14
Would the local auto factor have a HT test lamp, or does someone do a mail order one?
I do have a 12V test light.
The battery was on charge last night.
Out of interest, what is the reason for the second set of plugs? The ones in there are NGK.
I had another play with it earlier.
The spark seems to be intermitent. As the engine turns over, there is a weak spark for a few seconds, then nothing for a few seconds, then a weak spark again etc. The plugs are definately getting wet.
Also out of interest, how much is the fault code reader to hire?
>> Edited by BIG DUNC on Sunday 5th March 20:14
A reader can help define a fault as a missfire (ignition) or other type of fault.
Yes I'm keen to hire them but, to be honest, they should be the first thing you plug in anytime your RV8 misbehaves.
They are no longer sold by Rover but did cost around £150 each.
You can occasionally find them on Ebay.
I have several of them but now run a Tamora and will not be going back to a RV8 TVR so I may sell them soon.
Yes I'm keen to hire them but, to be honest, they should be the first thing you plug in anytime your RV8 misbehaves.
They are no longer sold by Rover but did cost around £150 each.
You can occasionally find them on Ebay.
I have several of them but now run a Tamora and will not be going back to a RV8 TVR so I may sell them soon.
Just a thought ... I had a similar problem - a few months after having a new rotor arm fitted.
In the end it turned out to be the rotor arm itself. The metal strip along the top had come loose and was moving around (a retaining screw had worked loose and fallen out). So sometimes there were sparks, sometimes not. Apparently the rotor arm, despite being new, was a pattern part (and not quite up to the job)
In the end it turned out to be the rotor arm itself. The metal strip along the top had come loose and was moving around (a retaining screw had worked loose and fallen out). So sometimes there were sparks, sometimes not. Apparently the rotor arm, despite being new, was a pattern part (and not quite up to the job)
Both the new and old rotor arms have the same part number, which I guess is a good thing.
Niether will make the car run, which is not so good.
I was a bit rushed tonight, and will be very busy for the next week or so. However, I will let you know what happens, or beg for more help when I draw more blanks!! If you don't hear from me, I have just been too busy to get out to the garage. Thanks for the advise so far.
I think the next stage is to buy some new NGK's, a strobe and a set of HT test lamps, and see where I go from there.
One more question though. Is it possible or likely that the distributer has failed electricaly due to dampness, or is it really simple and as long as it goes round at the same speed ( or should that be half the speed ) as the engine then its OK. The reason I ask is that the car had stood for a long time before I bought it, and at some stage got very damp. The old rotor arm ( and distributer cap ) show lots of evidence of this. I have not taken the clear plastic cap off the distributer, but I expect that any bits of electronics in there have been damp in the past. Could this be the cause of the weak spark?
Niether will make the car run, which is not so good.
I was a bit rushed tonight, and will be very busy for the next week or so. However, I will let you know what happens, or beg for more help when I draw more blanks!! If you don't hear from me, I have just been too busy to get out to the garage. Thanks for the advise so far.
I think the next stage is to buy some new NGK's, a strobe and a set of HT test lamps, and see where I go from there.
One more question though. Is it possible or likely that the distributer has failed electricaly due to dampness, or is it really simple and as long as it goes round at the same speed ( or should that be half the speed ) as the engine then its OK. The reason I ask is that the car had stood for a long time before I bought it, and at some stage got very damp. The old rotor arm ( and distributer cap ) show lots of evidence of this. I have not taken the clear plastic cap off the distributer, but I expect that any bits of electronics in there have been damp in the past. Could this be the cause of the weak spark?
The ignition Amp is only a month old, it was the first thing I changed when the car started to play up. I always keep old parts until I am sure the new ones are working fine. As the car ran well after the new one was fitted, the old one has gone. I still have all the other old bits, as the car has only run a couple of times since they were fitted.
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