Radiator recommendations

[anonymous-user]

There are a number of radiator upgrades available (e.g. Leven, ACT, Trackcar?), any recommendations?

Thanks

[RichardD]

As far as I know there is an aluminium one by "radtec" (as sold by Act). Joo (trackcar) suggested once a heftier Land Rover(?) core could be fitted to increase cooling at lower cost?
Going by memory here, will be interested to confirm the options myself.

[crackedfinger]

www.thegriffithpages.com/content/view/102/83/

[jellison]

RADTEC Rock! We got two (well three now, one for TVR one for TR6 - top quality - Excellent.

[dnb]

Tes, Radtec are good.

We had a small problem with the radiator in the Griff, and found that their customer service is excellent.

[leventech]

Without doubt the best option for the Griffith is an Alloy Radiator plus our cooling kit.
We hold in stock and can mail-order or supply and fit the Radtec Radiator and cooling kit. Please call us for more information.

[mongoose]

leventech said:

Without doubt the best option for the Griffith is an Alloy Radiator plus our cooling kit. We hold in stock and can mail-order or supply and fit the Radtec Radiator and cooling kit. Please call us for more information.

I think it was David Beer who had horrendous problems with the radtech radiator,and their service from memory,i'll stand to be corrected if wrong though?I've upgraded to the new TVR aluminium radiator on my current and previous Griff,and it works very well without being a silly price either.I've never found the need for these 'cooling kits',if your system is in good health it'll never need one,if it isn't in good health then masking the problem isn't the best idea.
The std TVR radiator works fine on these cars as long as its in good condition,even when you've modded quite a bit like mine is.


>> Edited by mongoose on Saturday 6th May 12:58

[Guillotine]

Mongoose (hi mike)

well yes that is true (thats also the famous S Heath line "everything standard is fine if in tiptop condition" BUT...

consider a 500 (cooling system wasn't designed for 5 litre burn rates) radiator position (45 degrees where it was designed for vertical) aorodynamics of the nose are diferent (with a MUCH smaller intake than RRover) any extras like a/c (condenser's in the way so obstructs and heats the airflow) temperature variations (long haul trips to Italy? s o france?) age of the system (many Griffs are over 10 years old now)...global warming!!!?

I have always advocated upgrading at all levels. TVR maintained as many original parts as possible as they are cheaper, but the cooling sysytem is marginal at best! as are the brakes! So an upgrade to ally rad (not much more than std and readily available, try getting a Rad from the factory now) with improved thermostat control and water wetter will certainly help.

I know mines not exactly normal, but it has Triple Core Race Rad, Adj fan cut in, electric water pump, adj 'stat with twin splitters for airflow etc etc. It also has an Oil Cooler with 'stat.
I can run round the track all day at track temps of 45 degrees and the car will stay faithfully at 90 degrees (tho I will not!!!!)and any std Griff would be toast.

Not meant to be a p1ssing contest here guys, just stating my maxim

"don't replace...upgrade!"

andy
monster

(and yes for those who were there, I did have a coolant leak at Snett last Trackday...new Samco's going on this weekend )

[wassy]

Thinking of a rad upgrade but cant decide which one to go for. Spoke to Leven the other day and they seemed happy with results from the one they do ( £395 plus vat ).
Where did you get yours Mongoose and how much.
Any other prices / options ?

[mongoose]

Hello Andy(not long now),thats interesting stuff you say there,i can see where your coming from.I've just never found the need for one,and i've been over in Le-Mans traffic in the 30plus climate and all that,but never found any problem to be honest.I have come accross cars that with the serp engine read over 80 on the run in winter,and that is a problem,but on a freind of mines Griff a new std rad bought it back down to the 70 mark in the same conditions.I just get the impression,from my own experiences and that of others i know,that there are a few people running with partially blocked rads(possible cause from those std steel coolant pipes that rust from within)for whom it would be easy to assume that the std stuff isn't up to the job in this situation.The one thing i would say about cooling on these cars,is that more people should be made aware that we ought to run a 76oC stat instead of the 82oC one though,i only found this out myself recently,after 5 years of V8 experience with these cars!.
Wassy,i got my rad from Peninsula,if they cant supply at the mo,due to the TVR situation,then theres a new one on e-bay at the mo. i think?
cheers,Mike

[mongoose]

Guillotine said:

(thats also the famous S Heath line "everything standard is fine if in tiptop condition"

,sorry,just noiced that after i read your post again.

[wassy]

Saw the rad on ebay and emailed the guy selling it. He says it's standard fitment for a Griff but goes on to say that one of the hose fittings is in a slightly different position which made me a bit suspicious. The part number is K0360 does anyone know if it's the right part. Is £200 the going rate.
Thanks.

[Guillotine]

mongoose said:

Hello Andy(not long now),but on a freind of mines Griff a new std rad bought it back down to the 70 mark in the same conditions.I just get the impression,from my own experiences and that of others i know,that there are a few people running with partially blocked rads(possible cause from those std steel coolant pipes that rust from within)for whom it would be easy to assume that the std stuff isn't up to the job in this situation.The one thing i would say about cooling on these cars,is that more people should be made aware that we ought to run a 76oC stat instead of the 82oC one though,i only found this out myself recently,after 5 years of V8 experience with these cars!. cheers,Mike

Yep! not long now to Spa...even I get excited about it, and I go alot!

But on the above...70 degrees is WAY too cold!!! the optimum temp is 90. look at any car gauge and it'll be normal at 90. mondeo to GT3, road track or race! Too cold, and 70 IS too cold and you risk premature wear and damage...as does 105+. the oil won't be thin and travelling properly too low and the oil will start to disintegrate at 110 (heads warp too). 70 degrees will also KILL fuel economy! -5mpg min.

the ideal temp is 90, at all times. But because a poor system can't handle any overtemp, generally the cooler 76 degree stats are put in to give a greater window of control. add to that twin temp fans etc and you have a much easier temp zone. however, it is operating right at the bottom of the engines tolerance. A correct stat (80ish) should bring the engine to temp as soon as possible, thats the only reason its there, its job is done, then the rad and fans should keep the engine at the 80-95 zone as set by the otter (fan) switch.

Upgrades are only a cure if you know what the problem is. Bad system or borderline system, either way if you upgrade you will improve but if std goes back in the best you get is borderline again. Anyway Leven are good people so theirs should be fine, and Dulford have put mine in. Ally then Race Ally.

andy
monster


>> Edited by Guillotine on Saturday 6th May 23:49

[GreenV8S]

Upgrading the radiator *can* cause problems.

The more excess cooling capacity the radiator has the less water flow you need through it to maintain the average engine temperature. At high speed in cold conditions you can end up with so little water flow through the radiator that the engine is basically surviving on the bypass flow. These engines have a fixed bypass which doesn't provide much flow (the serpentine is slightly better than the preserpentine but still very restrictive). If you then work the engine hard the local heat stresses in the heads can cause damage. The more excess cooling you have the more significant this effect is.

[Guillotine]

GreenV8S said:

Upgrading the radiator *can* cause problems. The more excess cooling capacity the radiator has the less water flow you need through it to maintain the average engine temperature. At high speed in cold conditions you can end up with so little water flow through the radiator that the engine is basically surviving on the bypass flow. These engines have a fixed bypass which doesn't provide much flow (the serpentine is slightly better than the preserpentine but still very restrictive). If you then work the engine hard the local heat stresses in the heads can cause damage. The more excess cooling you have the more significant this effect is.

how does that work with a fixed waterpump pete? (which mine isn't, don't have an engine stat thinking about it!) is it due to the stat closing, restricting flow to increase temp?

andy
monster

[mongoose]

Guillotine said:

But on the above...70 degrees is WAY too cold!!! the optimum temp is 90. look at any car gauge and it'll be normal at 90. mondeo to GT3, road track or race! Too cold, and 70 IS too cold and you risk premature wear and damage...as does 105+. the oil won't be thin and travelling properly too low and the oil will start to disintegrate at 110 (heads warp too). 70 degrees will also KILL fuel economy! -5mpg min. the ideal temp is 90, at all times. But because a poor system can't handle any overtemp, generally the cooler 76 degree stats are put in to give a greater window of control. add to that twin temp fans etc and you have a much easier temp zone. however, it is operating right at the bottom of the engines tolerance. A correct stat (80ish) should bring the engine to temp as soon as possible, thats the only reason its there, its job is done, then the rad and fans should keep the engine at the 80-95 zone as set by the otter (fan) switch. Upgrades are only a cure if you know what the problem is. Bad system or borderline system, either way if you upgrade you will improve but if std goes back in the best you get is borderline again. Anyway Leven are good people so theirs should be fine, and Dulford have put mine in. Ally then Race Ally. andy monster

Andy,although i refer to the gauge 'saying' 70oC,this isn't the real temp dont forget.When indicated at that temp on the run,the 82oC stat is working and the engine temp is 82oC.The gauge reads lower due to the poor sensor location at the front of the engine.Thuss,if it were reading 80oC in the same conditions,then you probably have 90oC coolant temp.The great John Eales,and,i think,the great Rob Robertson,recommend running lower temps than 90oC to reduce the chance of block cracking.In my book(how to power tune RV8),the recommended running temp is "75-80oC at all times".
Now,just like you've pointed out,i wondered how you manage to get the oil up to working temp like this,but even so,i now run a 76oC stat,to reduce this block cracking risk.I think from memory on here recently,Rob said something like if i see my gauge(coolant) go above 80,then i start to worry!!
Cheers,Mike

>> Edited by mongoose on Sunday 7th May 09:50

[GreenV8S]

Guillotine said:

how does that work with a fixed waterpump pete? (which mine isn't, don't have an engine stat thinking about it!) is it due to the stat closing, restricting flow to increase temp?

Not quite sure what you mean by fixed water pump, do you mean constant flow?

There are conflicting requirements on the cooling system.

The engine needs to have enough water circulation through the heads to prevent hot spots from forming under load. The more load there is on the engine the more flow you need to protect the heads.

The engine also needs to have enough water through the radiator to control the average engine temperature. Under some conditions the amount of flow required for this is virtually nil, other times it needs a huge water flow. This is what a conventional stat controls. It controls it by shutting off the flow to the radiator when the engine is below its normal operating temperature. There is a bypass pipe which allows a trickle of water to keep circulating round the engine when the stat is closed. It really is a tiny trickle compared to the amount that goes through the radiator when the stat is open.

I don't know if you're using an EWP on yours, but if you are you may be using a temperature controller too. This does a similar job to the stat: it circulates the water very slowly when the engine is cold, and gradually increases the flow rate as it warms up. Typically this would be fitted without any bypass so it is slightly worse than the conventional stat system because all the water through the engine also goes through the rad.

The problem occurs when the flow rate through the radiator and through the bypass (if present) is less than the flow rate needed to protect the heads. There's no real warning when this happens, the temperature gauge looks fine, but the heads may be suffering from local overheating and thermal stresses that will reduce the life of the engine.

Fitting a bigger radiator means that you need even less flow through the radiator to maintain the average temperature, which makes ths problem slightly worse. It's only *slightly* worse so I'm not saying that fitting the radiator is necessarily wrong, just that you want the radiator as big as necessary and no bigger, and consider blanking part of the radiator in cold weather to increase the water flow through the engine.

[bluebottle]

Trying to run the temps as low as some of you are saying here will also have an effect on the ECU. The ECU map adaption wont kick in until the temp reaches about 90 Deg. so unless you allow the system to reach a high enough temperature it will keep running an enriched fuel mixture.

[GreenV8S]

I believe that the enrichment drop out at around 70 degrees on a standard chip, although I confess I don't know if this is progressive - I would guess it is otherwise we'd all feel the sudden change in engine characteristics.

[dnb]

Here's my 2p worth

I'm with Andy on this one. I've run the Griff with an 88c stat and radtec radiator for the past year. For the last 4 months I've been using aftermarket ECU that controls the fans based on the measured engine temperature (both fans separately) from the ECU sensor in the inlet manifold. It's been absolutely fine so far.

If you plot a graph of this against time, you get a nice curve showing the engine temperature rapidly reaching 88c and then slowly reaching 91c AND STAYING THERE within 3 degrees either side - for at least 95% of the time. The maximum temperature I've recorded is 96c while sat for 20 minutes on a hot day in traffic. If I could find an 85c stat, I think it would suit my setup better - I could then maintain 88c and give a little bit more tolerance for a very hot summer, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

Interestingly, the instrument coolant gauge DOESN'T under-read. I tested it on the bench and it was correct. I don't buy into the theory of local cooling from airflow - there is another problem. The sensor is sat in "dead" water (ie not in the main flow) that simply won't heat up quickly as there's no reason for new water to displace the old (think fluid dynamics), so consiquently there is a large amount of lag in this reading. However, after a moderate traffic queue, the temperature gauge reads the same as the one on my ECU.