engine upgrades for a 4.3
Discussion
Hi
I have a 4.3 pre cat which has got a mark adams chip that he set up for me plus magnecors leads. The car runs very well however having had brake and suspension upgrade I would love to increase the torque and power although without affecting the ability to trickle through traffic too much. I have looked at V8 developments and Act websites. I ideally want to spend upto £1500 and interested to hear of peoples view's/opinions who have gone down that route with a 4.3.....
cheers
I have a 4.3 pre cat which has got a mark adams chip that he set up for me plus magnecors leads. The car runs very well however having had brake and suspension upgrade I would love to increase the torque and power although without affecting the ability to trickle through traffic too much. I have looked at V8 developments and Act websites. I ideally want to spend upto £1500 and interested to hear of peoples view's/opinions who have gone down that route with a 4.3.....
cheers
trackcar said:
Does your 1500 pound budget include the cost of any more remapping the car will need or is that in addition?
Mmmm hadn't thought of that...might be able to stretch a bit further in that case. Would need to include labour though! I'm not looking for massive gains just a strong increase all round, ideally both in low down torque and top end power.
Edited by laz11 on Monday 25th September 19:07
laz11 said:
Hi
I have a 4.3 pre cat which has got a mark adams chip that he set up for me plus magnecors leads. The car runs very well however having had brake and suspension upgrade I would love to increase the torque and power although without affecting the ability to trickle through traffic too much. I have looked at V8 developments and Act websites. I ideally want to spend upto £1500 and interested to hear of peoples view's/opinions who have gone down that route with a 4.3.....
cheers
I have a 4.3 pre cat which has got a mark adams chip that he set up for me plus magnecors leads. The car runs very well however having had brake and suspension upgrade I would love to increase the torque and power although without affecting the ability to trickle through traffic too much. I have looked at V8 developments and Act websites. I ideally want to spend upto £1500 and interested to hear of peoples view's/opinions who have gone down that route with a 4.3.....
cheers
laz11 said:
laz11 said:
Hi
I have a 4.3 pre cat which has got a mark adams chip that he set up for me plus magnecors leads. The car runs very well however having had brake and suspension upgrade I would love to increase the torque and power although without affecting the ability to trickle through traffic too much. I have looked at V8 developments and Act websites. I ideally want to spend upto £1500 and interested to hear of peoples view's/opinions who have gone down that route with a 4.3.....
cheers
I have a 4.3 pre cat which has got a mark adams chip that he set up for me plus magnecors leads. The car runs very well however having had brake and suspension upgrade I would love to increase the torque and power although without affecting the ability to trickle through traffic too much. I have looked at V8 developments and Act websites. I ideally want to spend upto £1500 and interested to hear of peoples view's/opinions who have gone down that route with a 4.3.....
cheers
get anywhere with all the help?! - I would be interested too, however i feel there is not much here to base it on...!
[/quote]
get anywhere with all the help?! - I would be interested too, however i feel there is not much here to base it on...![/quote]
Nope! Not much response. However I had a chat with TVR Power who talked about the engine rebuild/overhaul they do which includes a new cam for £3k....however they told me not to expect a big increase in power and in fact didn't want to give me any figures. This was based on my car putting out 205bhp and 260lb torque at the wheels on Austec's RR which is apparently a good figure for a 4.3.
get anywhere with all the help?! - I would be interested too, however i feel there is not much here to base it on...![/quote]
Nope! Not much response. However I had a chat with TVR Power who talked about the engine rebuild/overhaul they do which includes a new cam for £3k....however they told me not to expect a big increase in power and in fact didn't want to give me any figures. This was based on my car putting out 205bhp and 260lb torque at the wheels on Austec's RR which is apparently a good figure for a 4.3.
laz11 said:
Hi
I have a 4.3 pre cat which has got a mark adams chip that he set up for me plus magnecors leads. The car runs very well however having had brake and suspension upgrade I would love to increase the torque and power although without affecting the ability to trickle through traffic too much. I have looked at V8 developments and Act websites. I ideally want to spend upto £1500 and interested to hear of peoples view's/opinions who have gone down that route with a 4.3.....
cheers
As you havent had much response,i thought i'd post.The trouble with your request is two-fold,the way i see it.To modify the car to increase the performance throughout the range,and retain driveability is quite difficult.If you improve in one area of the rev range,then you usually* loose out in another. I have a 4.3 pre cat which has got a mark adams chip that he set up for me plus magnecors leads. The car runs very well however having had brake and suspension upgrade I would love to increase the torque and power although without affecting the ability to trickle through traffic too much. I have looked at V8 developments and Act websites. I ideally want to spend upto £1500 and interested to hear of peoples view's/opinions who have gone down that route with a 4.3.....
cheers
By what i've seen of a freinds 4.3,it's difficult to improve on without spending a lot,so much so that the standard TVR chip in the ecu,was better performing,and safer on fuelling,than a Mark adams rolling road session(cost £1k ish)derived chip!!
I would talk to Julian at Track car solutions about one or two of the more cost effective,yet simple mods that he does.I would also talk to Rob Robertson(V8 racing)about what engine mods he would best advise,for what your looking for
These two guys between them,offer sound professional advice and service,and charge very fairly for what they do.
Good luck with whatever you choose,and above all-enjoy
The 4.3 on which the standard chip produced more hp than the MA chip was mine. Mike (Mongoose) and I spent a very interesting few hours on the rolling road playing around with different ecus, air flow meter settings and timing. With the CO trim at 1.3v and the timing at 8deg BTDC the standard chip did indeed produce more hp than the MA chip with the same settings. Interestingly a 500 chip produced more hp than both!!
The aim of the session was to set up the car (CO trim and timing) for the standard chip. I wanted to run the standard chip for reasons of insurance and originality. We then ran the MA chip with the optimum timing and CO trim for the standard chip - NOT (necessarily) the optimum for the MA chip. In fact the optimum timing for the MA chip appears to be somwhat advanced over the 8 deg BTDC for the standard chip (more like 13 deg BTDC) and the CO trim would want fine tuning too. On Power Engineering rollers the MA chip originally made 249 bhp, so properly set-up it would seem to offer an increase in bhp. The MA chip does seem smoother, and apparently has a more suitable cold cranking map. However I rather like the foibles of the standard chip as mine is something of a fair weather car - originality warts and all!
The MA chip is for sale (PH classifieds and ebay) if anyone wants to play with it (sorry if this counts as an advert).
The aim of the session was to set up the car (CO trim and timing) for the standard chip. I wanted to run the standard chip for reasons of insurance and originality. We then ran the MA chip with the optimum timing and CO trim for the standard chip - NOT (necessarily) the optimum for the MA chip. In fact the optimum timing for the MA chip appears to be somwhat advanced over the 8 deg BTDC for the standard chip (more like 13 deg BTDC) and the CO trim would want fine tuning too. On Power Engineering rollers the MA chip originally made 249 bhp, so properly set-up it would seem to offer an increase in bhp. The MA chip does seem smoother, and apparently has a more suitable cold cranking map. However I rather like the foibles of the standard chip as mine is something of a fair weather car - originality warts and all!
The MA chip is for sale (PH classifieds and ebay) if anyone wants to play with it (sorry if this counts as an advert).
Griffter said:
The 4.3 on which the standard chip produced more hp than the MA chip was mine. Mike (Mongoose) and I spent a very interesting few hours on the rolling road playing around with different ecus, air flow meter settings and timing. With the CO trim at 1.3v and the timing at 8deg BTDC the standard chip did indeed produce more hp than the MA chip with the same settings. Interestingly a 500 chip produced more hp than both!!
The aim of the session was to set up the car (CO trim and timing) for the standard chip. I wanted to run the standard chip for reasons of insurance and originality. We then ran the MA chip with the optimum timing and CO trim for the standard chip - NOT (necessarily) the optimum for the MA chip. In fact the optimum timing for the MA chip appears to be somwhat advanced over the 8 deg BTDC for the standard chip (more like 13 deg BTDC) and the CO trim would want fine tuning too. On Power Engineering rollers the MA chip originally made 249 bhp, so properly set-up it would seem to offer an increase in bhp. The MA chip does seem smoother, and apparently has a more suitable cold cranking map. However I rather like the foibles of the standard chip as mine is something of a fair weather car - originality warts and all!
The MA chip is for sale (PH classifieds and ebay) if anyone wants to play with it (sorry if this counts as an advert).
I hought you said the MA chip was badly behaved,when set at the 13o BTDC that Mark advised,and mapped it withThe aim of the session was to set up the car (CO trim and timing) for the standard chip. I wanted to run the standard chip for reasons of insurance and originality. We then ran the MA chip with the optimum timing and CO trim for the standard chip - NOT (necessarily) the optimum for the MA chip. In fact the optimum timing for the MA chip appears to be somwhat advanced over the 8 deg BTDC for the standard chip (more like 13 deg BTDC) and the CO trim would want fine tuning too. On Power Engineering rollers the MA chip originally made 249 bhp, so properly set-up it would seem to offer an increase in bhp. The MA chip does seem smoother, and apparently has a more suitable cold cranking map. However I rather like the foibles of the standard chip as mine is something of a fair weather car - originality warts and all!
The MA chip is for sale (PH classifieds and ebay) if anyone wants to play with it (sorry if this counts as an advert).
.The fuelling also went leaner at the top end on the MA chip IIRC?I know the rolling road chap preferred the std TVR 4.3 chip out of all three that you tried. What i really dont understand is why your car is happier at 8o rather than 12-13oBTDC,unless the timing marks are out?How common is this on the RV8,as i think i've heard of it before
. Quinny said:
.....Oh and a basic RR session and chip will be less than £1k depending on whats found.
I realise that it's not always £1k,but that seems to be a pretty common figure nowadays,judging by the recent conversations i've had with folks who've had it done of late.A couple of years ago,i rang Mark,and he quoted me a minimum of £700 then,and that was if everything went perfectly!Either way,you'd be daft to budget for less than £1k now i feel,which is stupid money for what you get,and what your sticking with(the Lucas system).mongoose said:
I hought you said the MA chip was badly behaved,when set at the 13o BTDC that Mark advised,and mapped it with.
.Well, the idle was occasionally badly behaved at 13deg BTDC, but otherwise the car drove fine. I'm not sure it's fair to lay the blame with the MA chip. It was intermittent so with hindsight more likely the leaking vacuum advance unit (now disconnected), a sticky stepper, the 13deg BTDC itself (advanced timing does raise idle) or something else. What I noticed was that at 8deg BTDC the standard unit tends to drop to idle more quickly than the MA chip. A lot of people seem to have problems with their cars stalling so maybe the previous owner asked Mark to map to overcome this.
Remember it wasn't me that got the MA chip installed - it was the previous owner. I've no idea what his remit was - maybe to stop the car stalling at junctions!
What I have found is that 8deg BTDC with everything else set up properly (idle bleed screw, stepper etc) the standard chip runs fine, and I prefer its characteristic raggedness - pops on the upchange, slight coarseness to the throttle response etc. All adds to the 'experience'...
mongoose said:
The fuelling also went leaner at the top end on the MA chip IIRC?I know the rolling road chap preferred the std TVR 4.3 chip out of all three that you tried.
What i really dont understand is why your car is happier at 8o rather than 12-13oBTDC,unless the timing marks are out?How common is this on the RV8,as i think i've heard of it before
. I think the MA chip is leaner at certain parts of the map as he believes the standard map has overrich portions. That's one of his 'tricks' to improve economy.
With the standard chip and 13deg BTDC the RR operator was worried about pinking in the mid-range under load, so didn't accelerate through it and get a bhp max reading on that setting. Maybe the standard chip is leaner in the mid range leading to pinking if the ignition is over advanced. Either way I think the MA chip is optimised for 13deg BTDC but we only ran it with 8deg BTDC as that's where the timing was optimised for the standard chip.
Maybe we should have stayed for another 3 hours!
Griffter said:
..........Maybe we should have stayed for another 3 hours!
.I have to say,it was very interesting.I have to agree with not knowing the previous owners remit,very true.The one thing the swapping of chips did reveal,is just how much 'latitute' there seems to be in any one map.I didn't think it would run at all well on a 5 litre map! Have you done any work on that little runability niggle yet mate?
.Originality of engine bay is important to some people it's true, but as long as you understand the 5am is restrictive above 150bhp of airflow that's fine (proved this many many times now, always the same : no midrange gains, always loses out at the top..)
Changing cams is a good way to release hp on these engines, people have been doing it very successfully for years but getting rid of the 5am also is a good way to release hp
If you change the cam for something which radically alters the fuelling slope required you would need a remap anyway .. and very probably ignition changes or you've squandered much of the benefit of the cam don't forget.
If originality *isn't* your primary concern then getting a fully mapped system on your car early on is one of the best value upgrades you will do for hp, with RV8 tuners out there offering aftermarket conversions now.
Changing cams is a good way to release hp on these engines, people have been doing it very successfully for years but getting rid of the 5am also is a good way to release hp
If you change the cam for something which radically alters the fuelling slope required you would need a remap anyway .. and very probably ignition changes or you've squandered much of the benefit of the cam don't forget.
If originality *isn't* your primary concern then getting a fully mapped system on your car early on is one of the best value upgrades you will do for hp, with RV8 tuners out there offering aftermarket conversions now.
Edited by trackcar on Wednesday 18th October 09:09
laz11 said:
Hi
I have a 4.3 pre cat which has got a mark adams chip that he set up for me plus magnecors leads. The car runs very well however having had brake and suspension upgrade I would love to increase the torque and power although without affecting the ability to trickle through traffic too much. I have looked at V8 developments and Act websites. I ideally want to spend upto £1500 and interested to hear of peoples view's/opinions who have gone down that route with a 4.3.....
cheers
I have a 4.3 pre cat which has got a mark adams chip that he set up for me plus magnecors leads. The car runs very well however having had brake and suspension upgrade I would love to increase the torque and power although without affecting the ability to trickle through traffic too much. I have looked at V8 developments and Act websites. I ideally want to spend upto £1500 and interested to hear of peoples view's/opinions who have gone down that route with a 4.3.....
cheers
The next logical stage is to fit ported inlet manifold with alloy short 45mm trumpets, to compliment the ported heads, if you already have the tornado chip you don't have to pay for it again, by this i mean you only pay Mark for mapping time at his hourly rate, assuming that it needs any mapping again ? it might not.
This would be much less than your budget and give a reasonable gain per £ spent.
Maybe these kind people would make a 430 version...
supercharger
supercharger
trackcar said:
Originality of engine bay is important to some people it's true, but as long as you understand the 5am is restrictive above 150bhp of airflow that's fine (proved this many many times now, always the same : no midrange gains, always loses out at the top..)
This is a gem. If it was restrictive at 150BHP, you wouldn't be able to get more than 150BHP out of it. Stunning stupidity.
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