Power Steering Conversion

[petepetrolhead]

Anyone got experience of converting a pre-serp Griff 500 to power steering? I've heard there's a Peugot electric system that can be bolted on - not sure if this needs a Griff power steering rack or a Peugot one? I think the idea is to avoid a hydraulic pump and the need to convert the engine to serpentine. I'm also not sure whether the steering column would have to be changed or modded....

Any ideas of the likely cost of this escapade gratefully received! I'm about to have the body taken off, so getting at stuff shouldn't be a problem. I'd love to be doing all this myself, but don't have the time, so Advanced Automotive Design will be doing the donkey for me, so hours of labour is definitely a consideration.

If you tell me all this has been thoroughly discussed before, I'll hang my head and own up to being a lazy git who couldn't be a***d to do a proper search!

[sparkythecat]

This is the kit I think you mean.
There have been a couple of threads about it on the Chimaera forum, but I don't know of anyone who's successfully fitted one.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dl

Edited by sparkythecat on Tuesday 16th January 23:32

[lastlawyer]

hi pete@petrolhead, why are you wishing, willing or going to do that ?

even the 5-litre is still a lightweight-car and it could be, that you you won´t really want it with a power-steering. have you ever tried a griff with PS ?

[petepetrolhead]

LastLawyer - you're right to ask. The honest answer is that I have a very awkward manoevre to get the beast into and out of my garage - involves a lot of shuffling to and fro in a very tight space, plus I have about 1cm between either wing mirror and the garage door opening which requires very accurate positioning. Having no PAS means I usually break into a sweat (in the summer anyway) by the time I've finished the 2 or 3 minutes effort to get into the garage! Having to do this every time I put the car away is a right b*ll-ache.

I haven't driven a Griff with PAS, by my previous Chimp had it and I was very happy with it.
Peter

[lastlawyer]

Hi Pete,

good arguments. The best one was to hear, that you changed from C to G. :-)

Regards

LL

[wixer]

Yes I've converted my Griff (pre-serp) to PAS. Not that difficult a job really, Peugeot 106/Saxo pump, TVR rack, which is the most difficult and expensive bit and then fabricate some brackets to mount pump and reservoir, a tad of wiring to the charge light off the alternator through a relay, so pump will only work when engine running and I had Sertek make up the high pressure hose for pump to rack. Obviously this is a basic description as there are a few little things to overcome. If your interested drop me a line and I'll run through in more detail.

And by the way, ignore all those who will post about you not needing PAS on a Griff, it is without doubt the best mod I've done to my car.

[petepetrolhead]

Thanks to sparkythecat and wixer for suggesting two alternative approaches. I think I'm leaning towards the electric assistance route - means I can keep the "manual" rack, and "only" have to change the steering column - don't have to install any hydraulics. I believe it also has the advantage that if the power assistance fails, I still have normal non-assisted steering. Anyone got any experience of this system or any ideas what it does to feedback through the wheel?

[seasider]

petepetrolhead said:

means I can keep the "manual" rack, and "only" have to change the steering column

Dont think so ...

[petepetrolhead]

Seasider - have a look at www.wiringlooms.com/EPAS.aspx - this is the kind of arrangement I'm thinking of...

[seasider]

petepetrolhead said:

Seasider - have a look at www.wiringlooms.com/EPAS.aspx - this is the kind of arrangement I'm thinking of...

Sorry didn't read your post properly...

[victormeldrew]

petepetrolhead said:

Thanks to sparkythecat and wixer for suggesting two alternative approaches. I think I'm leaning towards the electric assistance route - means I can keep the "manual" rack, and "only" have to change the steering column - don't have to install any hydraulics. I believe it also has the advantage that if the power assistance fails, I still have normal non-assisted steering. Anyone got any experience of this system or any ideas what it does to feedback through the wheel?

It would have the distinct disadvantage of tearing your fibreglass car to bits and rendering the steering unsafe though, possibly. I'd want something more substantial than the fibreglass/wood/bent-bits-of-metal/self-tappers creation that is a Griff/Chim dashboard handling the torque of an electric power assist myself.

[petepetrolhead]

Surely there's no change in the amount of torque that needs to be applied to the rack - i.e. the dash is already subject to the same load, it's just that less of it would be applied at the steering wheel??

[richb]

petepetrolhead said:

Surely there's no change in the amount of torque that needs to be applied to the rack - i.e. the dash is already subject to the same load, it's just that less of it would be applied at the steering wheel??

I wouldn't have thought so? Surely the assistance is applied to the rack and chassis. Not the column and it's mountings?

[shpub]

Yep. All the column does is control the direction and how far the rack should move. The hydraulics does the rest.

[victormeldrew]

I assumed (probably a mishtake!) that an electric power steering column would bolt on to the steering column somewhere in the dash area - is that not the case?

[spend]

Phil sounds as tho he's got a point to me. Every action has a reaction, surely it must be braced against something ~ if its only you at the other end of the shaft I cant see that creating any assistance? Wouldn't have thought there would be anywhere to brace on the lower steering shaft or enough room to fit?

Dave

[petepetrolhead]

V-M with hindsight, you may have a point, but I think it may all depend on the gearing of the motor. If the gearing was one to one i.e. one rev of the motor was one rev of the steering column, then something immovable (e.g. the dash) probably has to apply an equal and opposite turning moment to stop the motor rotating.

However, if one rev of the column is 10 revs of the motor, I think the turning moment that needs to be resisted by the dash might be significantly reduced (possibly to 1/10th?). I think of it like holding an electric drill, which I think applies much more torque to the drill bit than you have to resist by holding the drill in your hands (virtually none - the inertia of the drill housing resists most of it). You only feel the real torque if the drill bit jams and the speed of the motor comes down to that of the bit!

Anyone who knows anything about mechanical engineering (i.e. not like me) is welcome to put me right....

[spend]

You should have nicked it off your previous car.... Go blag the new owner that manual steering is much better :-)

Dave

[victormeldrew]

petepetrolhead said:

V-M with hindsight, you may have a point, but I think it may all depend on the gearing of the motor. If the gearing was one to one i.e. one rev of the motor was one rev of the steering column, then something immovable (e.g. the dash) probably has to apply an equal and opposite turning moment to stop the motor rotating.

However, if one rev of the column is 10 revs of the motor, I think the turning moment that needs to be resisted by the dash might be significantly reduced (possibly to 1/10th?). I think of it like holding an electric drill, which I think applies much more torque to the drill bit than you have to resist by holding the drill in your hands (virtually none - the inertia of the drill housing resists most of it). You only feel the real torque if the drill bit jams and the speed of the motor comes down to that of the bit!

Anyone who knows anything about mechanical engineering (i.e. not like me) is welcome to put me right....

You want to fit power steering because the force you have to apply to a 15" steering wheel breaks you into a sweat. I'm not at all sure how this electric power steering works, but I'd imagine it will be applying force on a smaller leverage that the steering wheel, which means it will have to apply an even greater force than you. To me that means it will be pushing or pulling against its mountings with an equal force.

The drill analogy doesn't work - even with the torque being applied to the small leverage of a drill bit you will struggle to stop it turning with your two longer levers (the handles) if it jams.

Again, I don't really know how the electric power steering works, so I may be talking complete twaddle.

[petepetrolhead]

Likewise!

Edited by petepetrolhead on Friday 19th January 14:14