interesting tyre question
Discussion
I've just fitted Toyo's to the rear of my '94 Griff 500 having always used Bridgestone's in the past, the garage inflated them to 30psi (unbeknown to me) and the car was frighteningly unstable in a straight line at high speed due to tramlining - reduced the pressure to 24psi and much better but still I think more prone to rear end tramlining than the Bridgestone's were. Any comments/experience eg tyre wall stiffness etc.
Rear tyres 225/50, fronts are SO3 205/50 - I think I'll fit 205/55 on the front next cos I think that's the right size for a 500; any comments?
Rear tyres 225/50, fronts are SO3 205/50 - I think I'll fit 205/55 on the front next cos I think that's the right size for a 500; any comments?
Sorry, I can't provide an answer to you, but I noticed a similar change when I went from SO2s at the back to T1-Rs. I also have SO3s on the front. I have been advised to inflate the rear tyres to 28 psi because of the softer sidewalls.
I await with anticipation comments from other owners using similar tyres...
I await with anticipation comments from other owners using similar tyres...
This happens all the time with the Toyos. I have the T-1S fitted to the rear of my chim and had the same thing. I was told that they would improve with time and after getting about 500 miles on them they improved dramaticly. Apparently you need to get a few heat cycles into them to finish the curing process and get the releasing agent off the tread.
Give them a few miles and they will come good. I'm so impressed with mine I have ordered some for the front.
Give them a few miles and they will come good. I'm so impressed with mine I have ordered some for the front.
When I switched from S02/S03's to the Toyo poxies, I found them to be bloomin' awfull intitially not only was i getting increase rim roll due to the softer side walls, I was getting lateral movement in the tread block as well - scary as hell going into corners with a twitchy bouncy car that felty like it was attached to a large rubber band that would snap back as soon as you reduced the side wall loading.
I was about to give in and change them when, at 200 miles they suddenly stopped behaving this way and felt much better - So they really do take a lot of miles to bed in.
I was about to give in and change them when, at 200 miles they suddenly stopped behaving this way and felt much better - So they really do take a lot of miles to bed in.
The Toyos do seem to take a lot of curing, and it is very hard to do in this cold weather. Even when cured the Toyos are chalk and cheese when hot & cold IMHO.
I am not sure I understand tramlining with rear wheels. Generally tramlining is reduced by softer tyres / suspension etc ~ high tyre pressures will emphasise any tramlining. You seem to have taken the appropriate steps. Is your rear tracking OK and driving the car forwards?
I have only used the Toyos in 225F 245R 45profiles and they seem to work well enough.
Dave
I am not sure I understand tramlining with rear wheels. Generally tramlining is reduced by softer tyres / suspension etc ~ high tyre pressures will emphasise any tramlining. You seem to have taken the appropriate steps. Is your rear tracking OK and driving the car forwards?
I have only used the Toyos in 225F 245R 45profiles and they seem to work well enough.
Dave
As you may re-call, I was unhappy with the handling of my car when I moved to new T1-R's on the rear. Initially didn't believe it could be the tyre as there isn't much difference between T1-S and T1-R. However, when I replaced the fronts which would coincide with comments here about curing time, the car is now totally predictable and performs fine
Give it a little time then play around with pressures - the roads vary so much around us that I tend to stick with 22/24, but may go to 24/26 for a more spirited drive.
Bob
Give it a little time then play around with pressures - the roads vary so much around us that I tend to stick with 22/24, but may go to 24/26 for a more spirited drive.
Bob
When I changed from SO3s all round to Dunlops on the back and SO3s on the front I noticed much the same thing. It hasn't got much better several thousand miles later although a geometry check improved matters. I suspect it is down to the different characteristics of the tyres. I really ought to change the SO3s on the front but there is loads of tread on them still.
all round but they don't do them in 245/45/16.Thanks for the responses (sorry Bob, I forgot you told me yours did this too). It seems that this is a common experience so I'll hang on and stick with it for a while. Answer to the question about rear tracking; it hasn't been changed and was fine with the Bridgestones.
Interesting point about the curing; I suppose the rubber gets harder and stiffer as it cures more and perhaps the side walls flex less.
I must say that the instability was so scary there ought to be some kind of health warning with these tyres - if the road had been worse, or I was commited to booting it (like overtaking a row of cars) I dread to think what might've happened. Ah well, every days a school day.......
Interesting point about the curing; I suppose the rubber gets harder and stiffer as it cures more and perhaps the side walls flex less.
I must say that the instability was so scary there ought to be some kind of health warning with these tyres - if the road had been worse, or I was commited to booting it (like overtaking a row of cars) I dread to think what might've happened. Ah well, every days a school day.......
Are you sure the 500 miles is not letting the driver become accustomed to the cars handling? I got my precat out after winter layup, and it scared my sh*tless for the first few days, very dodgy on bumpy roads, then after a week it is okay, just hold tight and hang on!
Nic
ps would love to find a real cure, anyone got access to a proper suspension analysis software package?
Nic
ps would love to find a real cure, anyone got access to a proper suspension analysis software package?
nicbowman said:
Are you sure the 500 miles is not letting the driver become accustomed to the cars handling? I got my precat out after winter layup, and it scared my sh*tless for the first few days, very dodgy on bumpy roads, then after a week it is okay, just hold tight and hang on!
Nic
ps would love to find a real cure, anyone got access to a proper suspension analysis software package?
Nic
ps would love to find a real cure, anyone got access to a proper suspension analysis software package?
He he like your hold tight and hang on comment...a good summary to what a griff is typically like on standard suspension, as was mine before i had Nitrons fitted and set up properly. it now drives like a different car. I have no probs keeping up with my brothers clio 182 on the twisties nor my bro in laws 996 so reckon that is by far the best car improvement investment. also eliminated the pronounced squat and dive under acceleration and braking too! if someone had told me that before i spent a small fortune getting it rolling roaded and chipped by MA I wouldnt have bothered...ot at least done the suspension first!
Same experience to most. Changed from SO2's on the rear to Toyo and have been scared to death every time I've driven it since - approx 250 miles. Am desperately wanting to hit this magic 500 mile figure to get some confidence back, but feeling very unsure about them currently. Just to have a real winge, they're ugly as well. Just take a look at the side profile of the car with Toyo's and compare to the Bridgestones !
Well, add me to the ,not content after fitting Toyo TIRs to the rear' brigade. Replaced SO2s and use R888s on the front (205 50 - 15s) and have the geometery set pretty aggressively. Was always very lively but quite predictable (you just had to 'drive' it), now it's just totally unstable and a liability on rough roads. Feels 'switchy'. Suspect the tyres are not at fault as such but are just highlighting the inherent characteristics of the settings I'm on.... trip to the aligners this afternoon to see if we can calm it down 
Edited to add: I think the T1Rs look a bit agricultural too, after the SO2s
Edited to add: I think the T1Rs look a bit agricultural too, after the SO2s
Edited by pupp on Saturday 28th April 10:38
pupp
If you have R888s on the front and T1Rs on the rear I'm surprised you haven't been in the ditch never mind experiencing strange handling behaviour.
That's a complete No-No IMO. What possessed you to do that? - R888s are Track tyres and T1Rs are Road tyres - different rubber compounds and levels of grip - why did you not fit either R888s or T1Rs all round?
Jay
If you have R888s on the front and T1Rs on the rear I'm surprised you haven't been in the ditch never mind experiencing strange handling behaviour.
That's a complete No-No IMO. What possessed you to do that? - R888s are Track tyres and T1Rs are Road tyres - different rubber compounds and levels of grip - why did you not fit either R888s or T1Rs all round?
Jay
Edited by Jay Ayegees on Saturday 28th April 10:59
From the above posts it seems that it's not uncommon to experience worrying handling characteristics when running SO3s at the front and T1-Rs at the back.
Has anyone subsequently changed their fronts to T1-Rs, and was that an improvement on just having T1-Rs at the back? Or did it get twice as bad?
(I think that 15" fronts are only available as 'V' rated, but please let's not discuss that in this thread.).
Has anyone subsequently changed their fronts to T1-Rs, and was that an improvement on just having T1-Rs at the back? Or did it get twice as bad?
(I think that 15" fronts are only available as 'V' rated, but please let's not discuss that in this thread.).
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